Bentley Turbo R Track Car!
Discussion
So I thought I would put this on here to get a wider audience.
They all say that I must be mad to do this - so that is a good a reason as any to do it.
The general plan was to buy a decent Turbo R, strip out most of the trim and put it on a major diet. The aim is to lose about 6/700kg.. Not easy. I reckon about 2/300kg so far. I could hardly lift the exhaust rear section of the cat! The front seats must weigh about 60+kg each! Then there's the wood, door trims etc. The quality of these cars is astounding. Even the door lock knobs are solid brass chrome plated! Only engine mods are the removal of the second cat and rear section of the exhaust.
Further engine mods will include heat management by getting all the exhaust manifolds, turbo and heat exchanger Zircotech coated. Plus louvres in the bonnet. Then some water injection. This helps with power by keeping intake temps very low and allowing the ecu with good petrol to advance the ignition for best performance with no detonation.
Hers's the car a 1996 - so later gearbox etc. Untouched....
Ditto interior.
Dasboard loses its wood...
Rear seats and trim out...
Oooh look, I've found a real car phone!
Secondary cat removed..
Exhaust re routed to the side. This is the most photographed part of the car!!
Front being stripped and new seats installed
Trans lever moved. Note WW2 Spitfire starter button..
Headlamp grilles and mesh rad grille. Bentley oem rad grille is about £340! This was some stainless mesh from CBS online for less than £20! cut to size and glued in.
Springs being removed.
The bits of spring left over....
Plans now include viscous diff, more stripping, non electric steering column with QR boss ans Sparco wheel with g/change buttons which will be linked to the new trans controller. This will give either auto or manual change, programmable change points and speed, swithable converter lockout to give more engine braking. Water cooling the brakes. New lighter bumpers with better aero, rear wing, plastic windows. New wheels need to be made as these cars have a strange pcd. Big advantage of the new wheels will be the cheaper tyres at 19" and more grip. Plus room for some humungous brakes....
Proper no plate too as this one belongs to the last owner. Probably another FOU.......
They all say that I must be mad to do this - so that is a good a reason as any to do it.
The general plan was to buy a decent Turbo R, strip out most of the trim and put it on a major diet. The aim is to lose about 6/700kg.. Not easy. I reckon about 2/300kg so far. I could hardly lift the exhaust rear section of the cat! The front seats must weigh about 60+kg each! Then there's the wood, door trims etc. The quality of these cars is astounding. Even the door lock knobs are solid brass chrome plated! Only engine mods are the removal of the second cat and rear section of the exhaust.
Further engine mods will include heat management by getting all the exhaust manifolds, turbo and heat exchanger Zircotech coated. Plus louvres in the bonnet. Then some water injection. This helps with power by keeping intake temps very low and allowing the ecu with good petrol to advance the ignition for best performance with no detonation.
Hers's the car a 1996 - so later gearbox etc. Untouched....
Ditto interior.
Dasboard loses its wood...
Rear seats and trim out...
Oooh look, I've found a real car phone!
Secondary cat removed..
Exhaust re routed to the side. This is the most photographed part of the car!!
Front being stripped and new seats installed
Trans lever moved. Note WW2 Spitfire starter button..
Headlamp grilles and mesh rad grille. Bentley oem rad grille is about £340! This was some stainless mesh from CBS online for less than £20! cut to size and glued in.
Springs being removed.
The bits of spring left over....
Plans now include viscous diff, more stripping, non electric steering column with QR boss ans Sparco wheel with g/change buttons which will be linked to the new trans controller. This will give either auto or manual change, programmable change points and speed, swithable converter lockout to give more engine braking. Water cooling the brakes. New lighter bumpers with better aero, rear wing, plastic windows. New wheels need to be made as these cars have a strange pcd. Big advantage of the new wheels will be the cheaper tyres at 19" and more grip. Plus room for some humungous brakes....
Proper no plate too as this one belongs to the last owner. Probably another FOU.......
Spantney said:
You are quite clearly some kind of nutter. In a good way!!
This is brilliant, love the side exit exhaust! Watching this with keen interest. Just out of interest how many horses do these engines produce stock...they are about 6 litre aren't they?
Ant
Stock is around 420. With the mods thus far, I guess another 20 or so..This is brilliant, love the side exit exhaust! Watching this with keen interest. Just out of interest how many horses do these engines produce stock...they are about 6 litre aren't they?
Ant
Once I have done the heat management, water injection, a bigger turbo (the T4 is too small FFS!) and poss bigger injectors plus stand alone ECU - that should be any "easy" 650BHP
For those whose French isn't too good FOU means crazy or mad.....
In response to the car being a bit too good to strip, I would say that a cheapo £3K one would be a PITA as most of it would be shagged out. Also, how many of these do you see on the road these days? What is better, sitting in a garage for months on end or being used regularly. Bentleys have always been modified for racing - look at the latest GT Bentley!
Another, more important aspect, is that I will be using it to raise awareness and a few bob for DEBRA. My late wife had EB (Google it) so I want to try and do a bit for DEBRA who helped her so much.
On a lighter note, can't wait to do a few track days. "What was that noise?" "Oh just another Caterfield stuck under the wheelarch"
Can you imagine what this would look like in the rear view mirror of a Caterfield or similar? Scary or what!
Anyway, on circuits like Lydden and Brands it may be a little difficult to get past this - especially as the viscous diff and 600+ BHP does its stuff and it gets a little sideways.....
Another, more important aspect, is that I will be using it to raise awareness and a few bob for DEBRA. My late wife had EB (Google it) so I want to try and do a bit for DEBRA who helped her so much.
On a lighter note, can't wait to do a few track days. "What was that noise?" "Oh just another Caterfield stuck under the wheelarch"
Can you imagine what this would look like in the rear view mirror of a Caterfield or similar? Scary or what!
Anyway, on circuits like Lydden and Brands it may be a little difficult to get past this - especially as the viscous diff and 600+ BHP does its stuff and it gets a little sideways.....
jeremyc said:
It's all their fault!
The road/track car came up for sale last year and got me thinking.....
Stuart and Simon are well aware and very encouraging! I am renting their bumper moulds..
Crowds said:
cant see this doing anything other than handling like a barge on track with out serious weight saving and a lot of money being spent.... what is the suspension like? what are the brakes like?
Hmmmm.Doncha just lurrrvve PH?
Have you ever driven a Turbo R? The "R" means roadholding - and so it should with 1 1/4" anti roll bars. Brakes? Two, yes two calipers to each front wheel with a Citroen full power system.
Why am I bothering justifying this to you? Go drive one, then get back to me.
Now, having got that off my chest! Thanks for all the +ve comments. Sparco steering wheel arrived today - from Latvia! Well, only £33 with the g/change buttons and Alcantara and Leather... mmmm. Has BMW boss if anyone is interested!
More anon.
Buff Mchugelarge said:
Superb!
You should tow it to the track with a motorbike just to top off the bonkers theme
Not quite, but in a similar vein, we are taking a wicker picnic basket with china plates and crystal glasses for lunch on track days! I will be practicing driving with pinky extended so as to be ready for tiffin as the sun goes over the yard arm.....You should tow it to the track with a motorbike just to top off the bonkers theme
Most important modification done today......
Edited by V8 FOU on Tuesday 17th June 18:44
Steering wheel that arrived the other day. Sparco with buttons for the g/change. Ebay purchase from Latvia for £33 delivered!
OK, let's put this "you've ruined it" s
te to bed once and for all.
A Bentley Turbo R of this sort of age from a dealer in good nick with ful;l warranty is around £14/15K.
This one came with central locking /alarm not working - ecu is about £800 or £200 exchange. The hevac control has a fault, prices as above. Management light on - faulty speedo cluster, new £1000 or £200 exchange. Needed a hydraulic service, £3000 plus full service about £1500. There are a couple of bits of rust showing and the paint has micro bilsters on the roof, and contraction cracks here and there, so to be A1 would need a respray, around £6-10K. Add that lot up and you would have a minimum of £10K to bring it up to puff.
I paid £8K - which is about right.
So it hasn't been "ruined" , it has a new life as a track /race/ fast road car. Have you all ruined your E36's or MX5's? Hmmm?
Also, have those guys who replaced the coachbuilt body on their 30's Bentleys with a VDP Le Mans body "ruined " them? Not as far as I can see - prices now start around £400K for a good one. Lot of money for a ruined car.
So you detractors with your "ruined" E36's etc - MTFU and STFU eh? And be very scared, look for a Bentley in your mirror at a track day near you soon!
OK, let's put this "you've ruined it" s
te to bed once and for all.A Bentley Turbo R of this sort of age from a dealer in good nick with ful;l warranty is around £14/15K.
This one came with central locking /alarm not working - ecu is about £800 or £200 exchange. The hevac control has a fault, prices as above. Management light on - faulty speedo cluster, new £1000 or £200 exchange. Needed a hydraulic service, £3000 plus full service about £1500. There are a couple of bits of rust showing and the paint has micro bilsters on the roof, and contraction cracks here and there, so to be A1 would need a respray, around £6-10K. Add that lot up and you would have a minimum of £10K to bring it up to puff.
I paid £8K - which is about right.
So it hasn't been "ruined" , it has a new life as a track /race/ fast road car. Have you all ruined your E36's or MX5's? Hmmm?
Also, have those guys who replaced the coachbuilt body on their 30's Bentleys with a VDP Le Mans body "ruined " them? Not as far as I can see - prices now start around £400K for a good one. Lot of money for a ruined car.
So you detractors with your "ruined" E36's etc - MTFU and STFU eh? And be very scared, look for a Bentley in your mirror at a track day near you soon!
Tim Birkin? I am indeed honoured!
Ok folks, here is the plan at the mo'.
I am going to make some nice lightweight door trims as I want to make the interior "liveable". The headlining needs to come out as it is leather and I guess damn heavy. The dash is going to be replaced in machine turned ally - much lighter and in keeping with the whole image. Plastic side windows and probably rear screen.
I will be getting a cage made as the shell needs stiffening up. All the subframe mounts will be made solid either with alloy blocks, or more likely with nylotron in defference to road use. The active ride will go and be replaced with adjustable coil overs on the front and shox on the back. I am tryint to get some stiffer anti roll bars made too.
The exhaust manifolds, turbo, and downpipes will be Zircotec coated to help reduce underbonnet temps and also the chargecooler which is water cooled, will be coated as it sits in the V of the engine. Water injection to also reduce intake temp and the bonnet will be louvered. Phantom reckoned the turbo wasn't big enough as the boost kept dropping, but I have had this problem before with elevated charge temps, so I reckon the water injection etc may exacerbate this.
More power will come from the above, also bigger injectors and a stand alone ecu - a visit to Dave Walker will be on the cards! The aim is for about 600bhp.
The gearbox will have a new control unit to give programmable shifts and lockout plus manual change via the buttons on the steering wheel. Also it will need an extra cooler.
Are you still with me?
Brakes initially will be water cooled - then eventually, some 8 pot calipers on the front with huge discs and 6 pots on the rear with and extra caliper for a hydraulic handbrake for MoT and unbelievable handbrake turns!!
Viscous diff - or I will talk to Quaiffe to see if they can help with one of their diffs.
Wheels will need to be made. going for 19" to give clearance for the brake upgrade, plus the tyres are cheaper than stock!
So that's enough for now! The aim is for 600bhp and around 1800kg. Not sure about paintwork yet - that is a long way off....
Thank you all for your support. The car will be at the PH SE meet on tues, the 18-30 trackday in august, PPC in the Park, and the Bentley Drivers Club race at Silverstone + others.
first track day will be Brands for a shakedown next month...
Ok folks, here is the plan at the mo'.
I am going to make some nice lightweight door trims as I want to make the interior "liveable". The headlining needs to come out as it is leather and I guess damn heavy. The dash is going to be replaced in machine turned ally - much lighter and in keeping with the whole image. Plastic side windows and probably rear screen.
I will be getting a cage made as the shell needs stiffening up. All the subframe mounts will be made solid either with alloy blocks, or more likely with nylotron in defference to road use. The active ride will go and be replaced with adjustable coil overs on the front and shox on the back. I am tryint to get some stiffer anti roll bars made too.
The exhaust manifolds, turbo, and downpipes will be Zircotec coated to help reduce underbonnet temps and also the chargecooler which is water cooled, will be coated as it sits in the V of the engine. Water injection to also reduce intake temp and the bonnet will be louvered. Phantom reckoned the turbo wasn't big enough as the boost kept dropping, but I have had this problem before with elevated charge temps, so I reckon the water injection etc may exacerbate this.
More power will come from the above, also bigger injectors and a stand alone ecu - a visit to Dave Walker will be on the cards! The aim is for about 600bhp.
The gearbox will have a new control unit to give programmable shifts and lockout plus manual change via the buttons on the steering wheel. Also it will need an extra cooler.
Are you still with me?
Brakes initially will be water cooled - then eventually, some 8 pot calipers on the front with huge discs and 6 pots on the rear with and extra caliper for a hydraulic handbrake for MoT and unbelievable handbrake turns!!
Viscous diff - or I will talk to Quaiffe to see if they can help with one of their diffs.
Wheels will need to be made. going for 19" to give clearance for the brake upgrade, plus the tyres are cheaper than stock!
So that's enough for now! The aim is for 600bhp and around 1800kg. Not sure about paintwork yet - that is a long way off....
Thank you all for your support. The car will be at the PH SE meet on tues, the 18-30 trackday in august, PPC in the Park, and the Bentley Drivers Club race at Silverstone + others.
first track day will be Brands for a shakedown next month...
Max_Torque said:
The critical thing with this motor is to keep exhaust back pressure as low as possible. This engine really struggles to control it's exhaust valves, and the valvetrain control is marginal at the std levels of boost. If you attempt to "wind up the boost" all you will do is PI your pistons to death or melt your turbo when the valves bounce about! So, you need a large short exhaust system post turbine, and don't fit a turbine. I think long and hard about getting the later valvetrain from the twinturbo black label engines (ideally, the 500bhp spec one). Also, it's enourmously "Knock limited" as it is such a low speed engine, so lowest charge temps, highest octaine fuel is very very important!
The ECU is, iirc, an old Magnetti Marelli unit, like the original sierra Cosworths, and is very easy to "chip"....
Thank you for your input. Higher boost won't affect the valvetrain unless higher revas are used. Cosworth couldn't get any more revs/power from this unit! The knock limiting will be part of the new ecu setup, but the low charge temps and good fuel will prevent any damage. Also, bear in mind that if it does let go a good used engine costs around £2K! The exhaust has the original small cat on the engine plus the original straight through centre box, then side exits. This has made a huge difference to the power. The Phantom race car runs a reliable 650BHP.The ECU is, iirc, an old Magnetti Marelli unit, like the original sierra Cosworths, and is very easy to "chip"....
Ultimate engine power is not a priority at the moment. Weight loss and handling and brakes first! But again thanks to you and others for usefull input.
I range Quaife today as they are local about an ATB diff. Looks like £3500 for a one off. Hmmm, I may just get a viscous diff for the mo'.
With the greatest respect to you experience, my information about the whys and wheres come from a good source and the general opinion is that Blackpool engines don't make power as well as the single turbo.
Now, whilst you take this very seriously, I hate to disappoint you, I don't really!
The engine output isn't a big priority. It will, as stated, get full heat management, water injection and a stand alone ecu which will reduce boost when needed.
I'm fully appreciative of where you are coming from, but this is not a full on serious project. Just and old git of over 40 years experience of doing similar stuff having a laugh. Nothing to prove. When you have been through what I have in the last 5 years - near fatal accident, 3 months in hospital,total fk ups by said hospitals, loss of wife of 18 months in accident and now disabled, I just want to piss about having a very different car for track use. No big agenda.
But thanks again for you input. It is appreciated at face value.
Now, whilst you take this very seriously, I hate to disappoint you, I don't really!
The engine output isn't a big priority. It will, as stated, get full heat management, water injection and a stand alone ecu which will reduce boost when needed.
I'm fully appreciative of where you are coming from, but this is not a full on serious project. Just and old git of over 40 years experience of doing similar stuff having a laugh. Nothing to prove. When you have been through what I have in the last 5 years - near fatal accident, 3 months in hospital,total f
k ups by said hospitals, loss of wife of 18 months in accident and now disabled, I just want to piss about having a very different car for track use. No big agenda.But thanks again for you input. It is appreciated at face value.
chuntington101 said:
Is there a chargecooler in the intake manifold? If so it will be worth while upgrading the change cooler heat exchange (low temp rad at the front of the car). with something a little bigger. You could probably use any old radiator if you wanted to keep it cheap. 
It has a water cooled one as stock - with a Toyota pump!Best thing for you would be the same as me to fit water injection. This keeps the intake temps low (up to 30deg lower than ambient), which means the ignition will advance for max power assuming you use high octane petrol.
I think you have a point about the loom. The audio loom weighed about 5kg! Once I have installed the gearbox controller and stand alone engine ecu, I will make a custom lightweight loom.
The 4l80e box is very strong - Phantom use this in their race car. It can easily be upgraded with stronger clutches and bearings. Being a GM 'box means the Yanks have these sewn up. Some use them for drag cars with 1000+ bhp, so I don't think I will be troubling it too much!
More news/pics soon of the new steering wheel and rear wing fitted......
I think you have a point about the loom. The audio loom weighed about 5kg! Once I have installed the gearbox controller and stand alone engine ecu, I will make a custom lightweight loom.
The 4l80e box is very strong - Phantom use this in their race car. It can easily be upgraded with stronger clutches and bearings. Being a GM 'box means the Yanks have these sewn up. Some use them for drag cars with 1000+ bhp, so I don't think I will be troubling it too much!
More news/pics soon of the new steering wheel and rear wing fitted......
I suggest you try www.aquamist.co.uk
This is the system I will be using. He has done some work on earlier Turbo R's .
I'm not looking for a second chargecooler - just upping the efiency of the present one.
This is the system I will be using. He has done some work on earlier Turbo R's .
I'm not looking for a second chargecooler - just upping the efiency of the present one.
Needed to fit steering wheel. Bit difficult to get a boss, so decided to use the old wheel. Purists look away now.....
Cut out the aluminium / steel centre.
Bung it in the lathe and clean it up!
Job done!
Drill holes and bolt to safety spacer thing from old boss that came with the wheel
Fitted to car.
Wheel bolted to boss - I know there's a bolt missing.....
General melee of the interior....
Still huge ammount to do. More soon.....
Cut out the aluminium / steel centre.
Bung it in the lathe and clean it up!
Job done!
Drill holes and bolt to safety spacer thing from old boss that came with the wheel
Fitted to car.
Wheel bolted to boss - I know there's a bolt missing.....
General melee of the interior....
Still huge ammount to do. More soon.....
samuelellis said:
Just a thought to help you strip more weight but have you thought about replacing the rear doors with fibreglass replicas?
Good point - but all opening panels are aluminium. I will be fitting plastic windows and cutting away some inner skins from the doors.Fibreglass bumpers are in hand tho'.....
Well, mission accomplished, I think. FFS, do you think I am taking this seriously? Oh dear.
Anyway, the wing is a temporary thing - just there to be a wind up. (See what I did there wind/wind.... never mind)
Oh, the dash panel - that is temporary until the whole dash comes out, then it will be a bit special.
Hacked about? Not worthy of an answer.
The whole car is WIP. There is a heap of stuff to do, but customers bikes/cars take priority as does earning money.
I have the first track day at the end of the month - oh dear will I fall off because of the rear wing? We shall see.
Here is a list of things to do (well some of them).
New wheels and tyres - 19 or 20 inch
Plastic side windows.
Active ride delete and Bilstein shox.
New door cards.
Remove rear window motors.
Remove inner headlamps and duct in air.
Bonnet louvres.
Water injection.
Bigger brakes with water cooling.
Strip out remaining interior.
Remove dashboard and hvac, fit lightweight hvac and alloy dash.
Electric steering column delete.
Full cage plus shell bracing.
Solid mounts for subframes.
Fibreglass Muliner bumpers
LSD probably Quaiffe
It WILL remain as a road car, so the mods will reflect this. It will be at least a year before I am somewhere near where I want to be with this. I am having a whole heap of fun driving / building /winding up with this. It is a cheap way of having fun. Please don't take this so seriously,eh? It's a laugh, OK - or doesn't the PH majority know how to do that?
Just had my 60th and survived a near fatal accident 5 years ago including losing my wife of 18 months - so every day is a bonus. The bucket list is getting shorter!!
Anyway, the wing is a temporary thing - just there to be a wind up. (See what I did there wind/wind.... never mind)
Oh, the dash panel - that is temporary until the whole dash comes out, then it will be a bit special.
Hacked about? Not worthy of an answer.
The whole car is WIP. There is a heap of stuff to do, but customers bikes/cars take priority as does earning money.
I have the first track day at the end of the month - oh dear will I fall off because of the rear wing? We shall see.
Here is a list of things to do (well some of them).
New wheels and tyres - 19 or 20 inch
Plastic side windows.
Active ride delete and Bilstein shox.
New door cards.
Remove rear window motors.
Remove inner headlamps and duct in air.
Bonnet louvres.
Water injection.
Bigger brakes with water cooling.
Strip out remaining interior.
Remove dashboard and hvac, fit lightweight hvac and alloy dash.
Electric steering column delete.
Full cage plus shell bracing.
Solid mounts for subframes.
Fibreglass Muliner bumpers
LSD probably Quaiffe
It WILL remain as a road car, so the mods will reflect this. It will be at least a year before I am somewhere near where I want to be with this. I am having a whole heap of fun driving / building /winding up with this. It is a cheap way of having fun. Please don't take this so seriously,eh? It's a laugh, OK - or doesn't the PH majority know how to do that?
Just had my 60th and survived a near fatal accident 5 years ago including losing my wife of 18 months - so every day is a bonus. The bucket list is getting shorter!!
Latest.
Trying to sort some wheels. These Bentley are 155mm pcd - unique to the car. So I am getting some hubcentric adaptors made hopefully. Best bet are Porsche Cayenne wheels as they have an ET of 60 and the Bentley is 41. So I have gained 19mm of offset, add in 20mm of adaptor , great. But It may well be that the spacers need to be double thickness at 40mm, so I will be +20mm. 20" wheels have 275/45.20 tyres which are nearly the same RR as the present 255/55.17 tyres. May go for 275/35.20 to lower the gearing a tad.
There is about 25mm of arch clearance, but potential of 40mm with arch rolling/removal. Which ever way I go, the handling and in particular, the turn in will improve. Plus Cayenne wheels are real cheap, so I will be able to have 2 or 3 sets of wheels..
Oh, the pcd of the Cayenne wheels is 5x130 - a better option than the VW 5x112.
I hope the new wheels are a bit lighter too.....
And I really don't want to know why this is a bad idea!!!
Trying to sort some wheels. These Bentley are 155mm pcd - unique to the car. So I am getting some hubcentric adaptors made hopefully. Best bet are Porsche Cayenne wheels as they have an ET of 60 and the Bentley is 41. So I have gained 19mm of offset, add in 20mm of adaptor , great. But It may well be that the spacers need to be double thickness at 40mm, so I will be +20mm. 20" wheels have 275/45.20 tyres which are nearly the same RR as the present 255/55.17 tyres. May go for 275/35.20 to lower the gearing a tad.
There is about 25mm of arch clearance, but potential of 40mm with arch rolling/removal. Which ever way I go, the handling and in particular, the turn in will improve. Plus Cayenne wheels are real cheap, so I will be able to have 2 or 3 sets of wheels..
Oh, the pcd of the Cayenne wheels is 5x130 - a better option than the VW 5x112.
I hope the new wheels are a bit lighter too.....
And I really don't want to know why this is a bad idea!!!
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