1991 Audi 200 20v Turbo
Discussion
Hi all
I'm new to Audi ownership, always wanted one with the 5 cylinder turbo in any guise, i just love the noise. My pre-purchase research mainly consisted of Youtube sound clips of Audi sport Quattros! Letting my heart rule my head, I didn't really investigate any common problems associated with any of the UR cars. Ever since I saw the insanity of the 'General Lee Audi' around 5/6 years ago and the way the turbo spools up forever coupled with the howl of the 5 cylinder I've wanted one.
I'm also new to the US, having emigrated here 2 years ago from the UK, I've had to put my desire to scratch the Audi itch for a while. The move and house purchase got in the way, but around November last year I saw Pearl, although I didn't know her name then, I spotted her in a Craigslist ad for Indianapolis.(sounds pretty sordid but stick with it..)
Unfortunately the timing wasn't good according to the chief financial controller (the Mrs), but I saved the advert and watched patiently as it went unsold and meanwhile my house down payment looked very tempting in the saving account. Roll on a few months I kept seeing her re listed, I couldn't understand as she was rather cheap and looked very clean. Then when the time came and I got a green light to be able to make a car purchase, I sent an email to the owner, but alas he told me it had just sold!
I felt despondent, and gave up the search, as nothing would measure up the Pearl Audi I had only seen online, and quite obviously I was very much sold. So we moved house, started to unpack, I checked my emails and whats this? The owner emailed me to say that his sale had fallen through and would I be interested? hell yeah!
I struck a deal (gave him his asking price), there was no history with her (except he gave me the contact for his mechanic) told me he bought her from a Chinese student who lavished her with new parts and upgrades.
She wears later URS6 wheels.
It has an aftermarket Stebro exhaust, it still needs fettling as the hangars look terrible, welds look awful, and it hangs too low.
The front brakes have been changed from the UFO type to later URS4 calipers (fitted as standard to these were a weird reverse disc and caliper deely)
The suspension sits lower, I'm not sure if the front is also lower, but the back definitely have H &R springs, and some sort of upgraded shocks.
Subsequently all 4 tires are worn excessively on the inside edge only, the rest of the tread is great, so too much negative camber or toe, I've seen I can adjust the rear camber. I do aim to change the tires before the weather gets worse.
It also looks like the clutch has been changed to a centerforce, ( not sure how long ago, there is a sticker on the airbox)
The previous owner told me it has been stage 1 chipped. I later checked the ECU and it has a Stage 3 "Intended Accelaration" chipset installed.
There is an in dash digital boost gauge, but its about as believable as Obama so I now need to install an analogue boost gauge to see how many Pascals this tiny whistling (over strained) turbo is mustering...
BTW she's done 237k miles!
If you've read this far, cheers! I appreciate you taking time to read this, I'm really enjoying Audi ownership so far, long may it last (remember it's on 240k miles so far). And I also enjoy the obscurity of owning it. I live in the Midwest and every car is a Cummins diesel pickup truck and a lot of people have surprised me by appreciating the cleanliness of the 'old little car' but I like that its a sleeper and not a lot of people know what it really is or the importance of the little red 'S' badge on the trunk lid.
Cheers
Chris
I'm new to Audi ownership, always wanted one with the 5 cylinder turbo in any guise, i just love the noise. My pre-purchase research mainly consisted of Youtube sound clips of Audi sport Quattros! Letting my heart rule my head, I didn't really investigate any common problems associated with any of the UR cars. Ever since I saw the insanity of the 'General Lee Audi' around 5/6 years ago and the way the turbo spools up forever coupled with the howl of the 5 cylinder I've wanted one.
I'm also new to the US, having emigrated here 2 years ago from the UK, I've had to put my desire to scratch the Audi itch for a while. The move and house purchase got in the way, but around November last year I saw Pearl, although I didn't know her name then, I spotted her in a Craigslist ad for Indianapolis.(sounds pretty sordid but stick with it..)
Unfortunately the timing wasn't good according to the chief financial controller (the Mrs), but I saved the advert and watched patiently as it went unsold and meanwhile my house down payment looked very tempting in the saving account. Roll on a few months I kept seeing her re listed, I couldn't understand as she was rather cheap and looked very clean. Then when the time came and I got a green light to be able to make a car purchase, I sent an email to the owner, but alas he told me it had just sold!
I felt despondent, and gave up the search, as nothing would measure up the Pearl Audi I had only seen online, and quite obviously I was very much sold. So we moved house, started to unpack, I checked my emails and whats this? The owner emailed me to say that his sale had fallen through and would I be interested? hell yeah!
I struck a deal (gave him his asking price), there was no history with her (except he gave me the contact for his mechanic) told me he bought her from a Chinese student who lavished her with new parts and upgrades.
She wears later URS6 wheels.
It has an aftermarket Stebro exhaust, it still needs fettling as the hangars look terrible, welds look awful, and it hangs too low.
The front brakes have been changed from the UFO type to later URS4 calipers (fitted as standard to these were a weird reverse disc and caliper deely)
The suspension sits lower, I'm not sure if the front is also lower, but the back definitely have H &R springs, and some sort of upgraded shocks.
Subsequently all 4 tires are worn excessively on the inside edge only, the rest of the tread is great, so too much negative camber or toe, I've seen I can adjust the rear camber. I do aim to change the tires before the weather gets worse.
It also looks like the clutch has been changed to a centerforce, ( not sure how long ago, there is a sticker on the airbox)
The previous owner told me it has been stage 1 chipped. I later checked the ECU and it has a Stage 3 "Intended Accelaration" chipset installed.
There is an in dash digital boost gauge, but its about as believable as Obama so I now need to install an analogue boost gauge to see how many Pascals this tiny whistling (over strained) turbo is mustering...
BTW she's done 237k miles!
If you've read this far, cheers! I appreciate you taking time to read this, I'm really enjoying Audi ownership so far, long may it last (remember it's on 240k miles so far). And I also enjoy the obscurity of owning it. I live in the Midwest and every car is a Cummins diesel pickup truck and a lot of people have surprised me by appreciating the cleanliness of the 'old little car' but I like that its a sleeper and not a lot of people know what it really is or the importance of the little red 'S' badge on the trunk lid.
Cheers
Chris
Thanks chaps, it is quite clean for its age and the amount of mileage it has accrued.
Correct, it has the 3B engine, its the only year the 200/5000 model came with this engine, up to '90 they came with the 10vt and in '92 the URS4 came out.
So like you say it is quite rare.
I did the timing belt which unearthed some scary things, I'll post a picture later.
I had to go through the brake system when i bought it, new copper lines and flex lines all around and one new caliper on the rear due to an inop handbrake.
Hopefully the engine still has plenty of life left, although I full strip and rebuild will be on the cards in my ownership. After that I'd like to treat it to a larger turbo and stand alone engine management.
Correct, it has the 3B engine, its the only year the 200/5000 model came with this engine, up to '90 they came with the 10vt and in '92 the URS4 came out.
So like you say it is quite rare.
I did the timing belt which unearthed some scary things, I'll post a picture later.
I had to go through the brake system when i bought it, new copper lines and flex lines all around and one new caliper on the rear due to an inop handbrake.
Hopefully the engine still has plenty of life left, although I full strip and rebuild will be on the cards in my ownership. After that I'd like to treat it to a larger turbo and stand alone engine management.
Yeah that bracket was installed the wrong way round, so the last person to do the timing belt inadvertently installed a belt wear acceleration device after all his hard work!
I think I just left the bracket off in the end.
It is a handsome car, but it has been plagued with the larger bumpers like all European cars sold in the US at that time. But this one seems to incorporate them better than others I have seen.
The big trend I see in the US classic audi scene is to transplant this 3B engine into the smaller chassis 4000 or the 80/90 or more popularly the 80 coupe (the latter trying to replicate the S2 which weren't available in the US)
All this means my car may get rarer as the rotten ones get broken to steal the 3B engine...
I think I just left the bracket off in the end.
It is a handsome car, but it has been plagued with the larger bumpers like all European cars sold in the US at that time. But this one seems to incorporate them better than others I have seen.
The big trend I see in the US classic audi scene is to transplant this 3B engine into the smaller chassis 4000 or the 80/90 or more popularly the 80 coupe (the latter trying to replicate the S2 which weren't available in the US)
All this means my car may get rarer as the rotten ones get broken to steal the 3B engine...
Some interior photos, first thing to be updated was the gaudy 4 spoke airbag wheel for a 3 spoke Euro spec 80 coupe non-air bag one. My parents were coming over from the UK anyway so kindly brought it as hand luggage.
Upon boarding the plane my dad envisioning a spontaneous Peter Kay moment removed said wheel from my mum's bag and proceeded to 'pretend' to drive the length of the aisle all the way to their seats, throwing in a couple of jokes about being a reserve pilot or pilot in training or some such...ah dad humour...
Not too shabby for age/mileage.
Now, its not without its age related problems....
Although the Stereo is a nice Audi Bose unit with amplified speakers, they don't work. It makes a constant high pitched squeal. I've been reading up and they are prone to this and the amplifiers on each speaker are known to fail over time, but can be salvaged with a little soldering of new resistors/capacitors.
Upon boarding the plane my dad envisioning a spontaneous Peter Kay moment removed said wheel from my mum's bag and proceeded to 'pretend' to drive the length of the aisle all the way to their seats, throwing in a couple of jokes about being a reserve pilot or pilot in training or some such...ah dad humour...
Not too shabby for age/mileage.
Now, its not without its age related problems....
Although the Stereo is a nice Audi Bose unit with amplified speakers, they don't work. It makes a constant high pitched squeal. I've been reading up and they are prone to this and the amplifiers on each speaker are known to fail over time, but can be salvaged with a little soldering of new resistors/capacitors.
Whilst giving the car a service I noticed the intercooler to intake hose was split (in Audi circles this is called the Michelin man hose)
not good, as all those lovely pressurized air molecules were escaping and reducing that turbo oomph.
also not good as this hose is specific to the 1991 200 20v turbo, the only year Audi made this particular combination.
One end is 70mm ID and the other end is 60mm ID and its a flexible bellows which takes out the misalignment from intercooler to intake pipe. (around 25°)
So the hose isn't particularly readily available, you can buy aftermarket silicone hoses, but they are around $130.
I thought I can have a go with some cheaper silicone hoses from ebay for $20 and some stainless exhaust pipe pilfered from work.
My first attempt I tried to see if a straight section of pipe would work assuming the silicone bellows would take out the misalignment. The hose just popped right off.
I then got a bit of bend pipe from work around 25° angle (not sure of the bend radius) and this seemed to do the trick.
I just took it for a test drive and I'm not sure if that hose has always leaked whilst I've owned it, but now it bloody shifts! Its pretty terrifying actually, as the tires are a wee bit bald on the inside edges
I've just received a new set of tires, middle of the range Kumho Ecsta jobbies..now I just need to get them thrown on...
There may also be something off with the steering geometry and/or worn bushes as it seems to wander under acceleration and braking but I'll look into that once the tires are on.
not good, as all those lovely pressurized air molecules were escaping and reducing that turbo oomph.
also not good as this hose is specific to the 1991 200 20v turbo, the only year Audi made this particular combination.
One end is 70mm ID and the other end is 60mm ID and its a flexible bellows which takes out the misalignment from intercooler to intake pipe. (around 25°)
So the hose isn't particularly readily available, you can buy aftermarket silicone hoses, but they are around $130.
I thought I can have a go with some cheaper silicone hoses from ebay for $20 and some stainless exhaust pipe pilfered from work.
My first attempt I tried to see if a straight section of pipe would work assuming the silicone bellows would take out the misalignment. The hose just popped right off.
I then got a bit of bend pipe from work around 25° angle (not sure of the bend radius) and this seemed to do the trick.
I just took it for a test drive and I'm not sure if that hose has always leaked whilst I've owned it, but now it bloody shifts! Its pretty terrifying actually, as the tires are a wee bit bald on the inside edges
I've just received a new set of tires, middle of the range Kumho Ecsta jobbies..now I just need to get them thrown on...
There may also be something off with the steering geometry and/or worn bushes as it seems to wander under acceleration and braking but I'll look into that once the tires are on.
Erwin1978 said:
Lovely car, and a 20V Turbo to the boot! Looking forward to updates. When properly set-up they should drive arrow straight and very comfortable. In a firm- but enjoyable German way, not wibblywabblywobbly US way...
I hope so, I owned a US domestic 'sports' car before the Audi and enjoyed it for a while but you could tell it did wibbble around corners, in fact it just slid. A light weight car (Ford Escort size) with a 5.0 V8 manual and RWD...
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