Rolls Royce Silver Shadow bought sight-unseen from eBay
Discussion
Old thread, updated 22nd August 2017
Been after another classic saloon car for a while, but after months of looking I had pretty much given up trying to find another S1 XJ6 as nice as my last one, while still being in budget. I then got to thinking; well, I've had two of those, how about something different? Anyway, as these things often do one thing led to another and, thanks to a few too many ciders one evenning and the eBay phone app remembering my passwords, I've bought a 1969 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. Sight unseen. From eBay.
Going to pick it up in a few hours. Wish me luck.
Been after another classic saloon car for a while, but after months of looking I had pretty much given up trying to find another S1 XJ6 as nice as my last one, while still being in budget. I then got to thinking; well, I've had two of those, how about something different? Anyway, as these things often do one thing led to another and, thanks to a few too many ciders one evenning and the eBay phone app remembering my passwords, I've bought a 1969 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. Sight unseen. From eBay.
Going to pick it up in a few hours. Wish me luck.
Edited by varsas on Tuesday 30th September 15:38
Edited by varsas on Tuesday 22 August 19:11
Hi!
Well, it got me the 60-or-so miles back, at no point did it, ahem 'fail to proceed'. It looks really nice, like it's actually an old, but well cared for, car which I really like. The paint is faded on the panel gaps where it's been polished too many times, the seats are a bit wrinkly and the lustre has gone from the chrome...but it's all there, and it just exhudes charm. Little details like the 'LUCAS Sealed Beam' legend embossed onto the glass (not plastic) headlights, and the metal, almost military fuel filler cap make it feel like something old, something that was made with great care and looked after for more than 40 years.... It's not all good, one front wing has been painted badly..it's flat and the paint is cracking, and there are more signs of filler in one of the rear wings but underneath it's all very straight and solid, I can't see any rust as such...the wheelarches are clean, jacking points are still where they should be(!) etc.
To drive? mmm...it's a '60's car. If you've never driven something from that era you'd be shocked. The steering has no feel but is very sensitive and light, as is the throttle, but the brakes require a good shove and plenty of travel before they do anything. The 'handling' is laughable, moving the steering wheel right only makes the car lean left, barely changing it's course at all...and if you misjudge things and find you need brakes AND steering at the same time you'll find the car just gets all upset...the secret is to take your time, be nice and smooth...gently e-a-s-e the car into corners, put some effort into learning where the 'bite' point of the brakes is (a bit like a clutch) and guide the car rather than fight it...do that and everyhting suddenly makes sense. The engine (mine has the 6 and 1/4 litre version of the V8) is really strong, I haven't 'given it the beans' yet but the way it goes from 50-70 is amazing. With that and the quietness of the car you really don't know how fast you are going, a few times I looked down and saw I had crept up to 70+ (I was trying to keep to 60) without realising it. Actually (cliche time) the car is so quiet that at 60mph all you hear is a slight ticking...no, it's not the clock. I suspect it's the speedo drive, but really it's much quieter then my modern Jaguar S-type. The ride is very good too, I wouldn't say it's much better than a good S1 XJ6 but it's very soft compared to any modern car.
Pics tomorrow!
Well, it got me the 60-or-so miles back, at no point did it, ahem 'fail to proceed'. It looks really nice, like it's actually an old, but well cared for, car which I really like. The paint is faded on the panel gaps where it's been polished too many times, the seats are a bit wrinkly and the lustre has gone from the chrome...but it's all there, and it just exhudes charm. Little details like the 'LUCAS Sealed Beam' legend embossed onto the glass (not plastic) headlights, and the metal, almost military fuel filler cap make it feel like something old, something that was made with great care and looked after for more than 40 years.... It's not all good, one front wing has been painted badly..it's flat and the paint is cracking, and there are more signs of filler in one of the rear wings but underneath it's all very straight and solid, I can't see any rust as such...the wheelarches are clean, jacking points are still where they should be(!) etc.
To drive? mmm...it's a '60's car. If you've never driven something from that era you'd be shocked. The steering has no feel but is very sensitive and light, as is the throttle, but the brakes require a good shove and plenty of travel before they do anything. The 'handling' is laughable, moving the steering wheel right only makes the car lean left, barely changing it's course at all...and if you misjudge things and find you need brakes AND steering at the same time you'll find the car just gets all upset...the secret is to take your time, be nice and smooth...gently e-a-s-e the car into corners, put some effort into learning where the 'bite' point of the brakes is (a bit like a clutch) and guide the car rather than fight it...do that and everyhting suddenly makes sense. The engine (mine has the 6 and 1/4 litre version of the V8) is really strong, I haven't 'given it the beans' yet but the way it goes from 50-70 is amazing. With that and the quietness of the car you really don't know how fast you are going, a few times I looked down and saw I had crept up to 70+ (I was trying to keep to 60) without realising it. Actually (cliche time) the car is so quiet that at 60mph all you hear is a slight ticking...no, it's not the clock. I suspect it's the speedo drive, but really it's much quieter then my modern Jaguar S-type. The ride is very good too, I wouldn't say it's much better than a good S1 XJ6 but it's very soft compared to any modern car.
Pics tomorrow!
Edited by varsas on Tuesday 30th September 21:40
Thanks for all the encouragment! Really enjoyed driving it to/from work today. So far it's only got nice comments, even from non-car people. I think because it's not excessivley blingy. The only other thing I have discovered is that it needs a new thermostat, but it looks easy to do and the part is cheap, just the normal BL parts bin one by the looks of it!
A few pics (although the eBay ad has enough)
As for the brakes, thanks for the advice. I got to two pumps before one of the warning lights came on, so I guess there is an issue somewhere with the pump or accumulator. I'll ask in the RR/Bently forum!
A few pics (although the eBay ad has enough)
As for the brakes, thanks for the advice. I got to two pumps before one of the warning lights came on, so I guess there is an issue somewhere with the pump or accumulator. I'll ask in the RR/Bently forum!
TooMany2cvs said:
varsas said:
As for the brakes, thanks for the advice. I got to two pumps before one of the warning lights came on, so I guess there is an issue somewhere with the pump or accumulator. I'll ask in the RR/Bently forum!
That'll be a flat accumulator sphere, then. Pleiades in Cambridgeshire are the boys for all green balls.Erudite geezer said:
Would be interested to learn Mr varsas Sir how this car rides in comparison to modern vehicles?
And is it refined despite being a 40 year old design?
Very differently! Classics seem to be set up with a completely different mentality to modern ones. They are very soft and compliant, I think the difference in tyres makes this most obvious. Old cars have narrow, high profile tyres on small wheels. This makes them glide over the road and avoid cambers and other road imperfections, and the rest of the suspension is set up in the same way...this applies (to some degree) to everything from a Triumph Spitfire to my Rolls Royce, but the RR is perhaps the most extreme example. I know it's a cliche, but classics float over the road while moderns seem to try very hard to bully the road away...you're well aware of all the work going on. All of this is to the detriment of 'handling'. As I have written the body control is woefull by any modern standards, but it's all a compromise. On the plus side classics (including the RR) tend to have very sharp, responsive steering and, of course, those without power assistance provide lots of feedback too. Classic power steering is very, very light and masks any feedback, it's not unlike driving a modern on ice at first!And is it refined despite being a 40 year old design?
The car is very refined, I've had modern Jaguars and ridden in BMW's and things but this is so quiet and smooth it's on another level! It's all so smooth and relaxed....there are no rattles, all the controls take a very light touch...yes, it's very refined and the quietest car I've ever been in!
Oh, and the design is now 50 years old!
varsas said:
TooMany2cvs said:
varsas said:
As for the brakes, thanks for the advice. I got to two pumps before one of the warning lights came on, so I guess there is an issue somewhere with the pump or accumulator. I'll ask in the RR/Bently forum!
That'll be a flat accumulator sphere, then. Pleiades in Cambridgeshire are the boys for all green balls.A quick investigation showed the front brake distribution block (? attached to the front crossmember , I don't *think* it was the pump as it didn't seem to be attached to the engine, I need to have another look) had let go. I drove slowly the mile or so to work (interestingly the brakes didn't seem any different!) knowing that the car has 3 independent systems. I hope I haven't damaged the rest of the system by driving it with low/no fluid. Obviously it'll be staying where it is until I can arrange for it to be fixed.
I was really enjoying the drive until then. I now feel very comfortable (confident) driving it and I'm able to really relax and enjoy it.
Edited by varsas on Thursday 2nd October 08:44
dxbtiger said:
Any plans to track it? 
Could probably go in the frivolous thread this, top purchasing!
God can you imagine? Nah, The S-type was bad enough (gearbox really wasn't interested...especially once it got hot) Honestly? It's not fun driving big heavy soft cars on track. Amusing for a while but not really fun!Could probably go in the frivolous thread this, top purchasing!
ecurie said:
ecurie said:
If your chassisnumber is lower than SRH7404 it might also be the front height control valve.
Edited by ecurie on Thursday 2nd October 12:28
jimfoz said:
The green and tan colour combo looks great. The interior just looks like it needs recolonising, but that is surprisingly inexpensive.
Doesn't look like you have a/c, but that is an added complication you can do without. If the bodywork and engine are essentially sound and you only have a few issues with the hydraulics you might have bagged yourself a keeper.
I have thought about the seats. I'm not too knowledgeable about looking after leather. I do know I prefer their current dull look to the over shiny look you get on some cars, but even I can see they are dirty. On the plus side they feel really nice and supple and have no rips etc. I have a friend who knows far more about cleaning cars than I do, but I wonder if a feed and a clean would make them look better without making them look too new for the rest of the car...Doesn't look like you have a/c, but that is an added complication you can do without. If the bodywork and engine are essentially sound and you only have a few issues with the hydraulics you might have bagged yourself a keeper.
TheInternet said:
ecurie said:
If your chassisnumber is lower than SRH7404 it might also be the front height control valve.
Is that a fully redundant braking system on the front axle?jimfoz said:
The interior just looks like it needs recolonising
Apt typo.The main braking is done by a high pressure hydraulic system, fed by cam-driven pumps with pressure stored in accumulators and released to the callipers when required. there is also a normal, un-servod, system with a master cylinder but that's very much a secondary system. You wouldn't want to try stopping the car with just that!
Just to add, yes, the brakes are connected to the suspension too!
Edited by varsas on Friday 3rd October 15:18
Car with bonnet/grill/radiator removed to gain access. The engine looks really cool!
The grotten (grotty 'n' rotten) pipes to the front height valve. The one that burst was one of the flexi hoses, but as you can see the fixed ones are also really horrible. The pipes you can see in the engine bay all look good, they are 'modern' copper, all nicely clipped and corrosion free, I guess whoever did that didn't change these! What's the betting the rear pipes/hoses are the same...
All the pipes you can see have been removed, nice shiny new ones on the way!
The grotten (grotty 'n' rotten) pipes to the front height valve. The one that burst was one of the flexi hoses, but as you can see the fixed ones are also really horrible. The pipes you can see in the engine bay all look good, they are 'modern' copper, all nicely clipped and corrosion free, I guess whoever did that didn't change these! What's the betting the rear pipes/hoses are the same...
All the pipes you can see have been removed, nice shiny new ones on the way!
williamp said:
Lovwly lovely lovely. How does it compare with the S1 Xj6, as many thougt the latter wasjust as good/ better when they road tested it
Well, it's funny, the first time I drove a S1 XJ6 I really did think 'Wow, this is how I imagined an old RR or Bently must be' and you know what? I wasn't far off. In terms of just driving they offer a similar experience. Nice airy cabin, a lusty engine, over-light steering (which you do get used to) and soft suspension. The RR has the (even more) punchy engine and is more refined, but the Jaguar has much better handling, to the point where you can really enjoy driving the XJ6 swiftly. The RR does make the XJ6 look very ordinary in terms of general finish and interiour though. Don't get me wrong, the Jaguar is lovely but it doesn't really compare to the RR.The XJ6 is clearly the better car; it drives better and is so much more practical being a bit smaller, and with better fuel economy but the RR is the nicer object, the nicer thing to own. The XJ6 is a really nice classic car, the Rolls Royce is a Rolls Royce. To be honest I'm not sure anyone else really tried to do what RR did at the time, I really do think it's unique so comparisons between the RR and anything else are a bit invalid.
R6VED said:
Very cool and brave/insane of you :-) I have just bought a 33 year old Mercedes 500 SEL in black with beige velour, not quite the same of course but in a similar old school, big engined, wafty vein :-)
Good luck
Charlie
Yeah, best sorts of classics IMHO. Everyone wants a sports car but if you want a drivers car just get a modern Boxster, but nothing does wafting better than a classic!Good luck
Charlie
Pics please!
I thought I would update this thread, in case anyone is interested about how it all went!
It did not take me long to discover that the car’s high-pressure hydraulics, which comprise two separate circuits running the brakes and self-levelling suspension, needs some attention. After fixing the pipes/hoses at the front I confirmed that one of the spheres (which ‘store’ pressure for use by the system) needed replacing, as mentioned on here. After getting a quote for £5,000 from a specialist I replaced the sphere myself. And so began my journey…over the year I went through the whole system, replacing lots of pipe (basically any pipe which ran outside with a junction/steep curve in it needed doing), adjusting one and replacing one control valve and generally testing and sorting it all out. I will not pretend all was plain sailing but, with the help of some friends and the workshop manual I managed to get my head around how it all worked and get the system running properly. I got very good at making pipe unions, and built/assembled a pressure gauge for the car and a rig (which plumbed into the sphere output) on which I could test components off the car. I also sorted some other minor issues; thermostat, engine tuning, electrics etc. On the very last day of ownership, and after a year, I fixed the very last leak and had the whole system operating at full pressure for the first time in my ownership and who knows how long. Watching the rear suspension rise majestically was very satisfying and a bit emotional. It was also quite nice to drive the car with the brakes working properly (see my early posts).
During all this, one of my friends helping me with the car decided he also wanted one (of course). We went to see perhaps five examples at the lower end of the price scale and all were, as you will not be surprised to hear, utter sheds. None had working hydraulics, one had head gasket failure, another had terrible paint…in the end I needed to raise money to restore my Stag and I lost a garage so it went to him, on the proviso that I had first refusal. He used the Rolls Royce as his only car for a year, before getting a modern and taking the RR off the road for some repairs. We all eagerly await its return to the road and, perhaps one day, to my garage.
It did not take me long to discover that the car’s high-pressure hydraulics, which comprise two separate circuits running the brakes and self-levelling suspension, needs some attention. After fixing the pipes/hoses at the front I confirmed that one of the spheres (which ‘store’ pressure for use by the system) needed replacing, as mentioned on here. After getting a quote for £5,000 from a specialist I replaced the sphere myself. And so began my journey…over the year I went through the whole system, replacing lots of pipe (basically any pipe which ran outside with a junction/steep curve in it needed doing), adjusting one and replacing one control valve and generally testing and sorting it all out. I will not pretend all was plain sailing but, with the help of some friends and the workshop manual I managed to get my head around how it all worked and get the system running properly. I got very good at making pipe unions, and built/assembled a pressure gauge for the car and a rig (which plumbed into the sphere output) on which I could test components off the car. I also sorted some other minor issues; thermostat, engine tuning, electrics etc. On the very last day of ownership, and after a year, I fixed the very last leak and had the whole system operating at full pressure for the first time in my ownership and who knows how long. Watching the rear suspension rise majestically was very satisfying and a bit emotional. It was also quite nice to drive the car with the brakes working properly (see my early posts).
During all this, one of my friends helping me with the car decided he also wanted one (of course). We went to see perhaps five examples at the lower end of the price scale and all were, as you will not be surprised to hear, utter sheds. None had working hydraulics, one had head gasket failure, another had terrible paint…in the end I needed to raise money to restore my Stag and I lost a garage so it went to him, on the proviso that I had first refusal. He used the Rolls Royce as his only car for a year, before getting a modern and taking the RR off the road for some repairs. We all eagerly await its return to the road and, perhaps one day, to my garage.
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