Jaguar V12 project
Discussion
Hello all, this is going to be quite a long story..... a couple of years ago I picked a very sad E type, series 1, auto, 2+2, but with some good points as well....lots of spare panels (including a welded louvre bonnet!!), rebuilt engine and carbs, and a trailer full of other parts.
My plan was to slowly potter away rebuilding it in my spare time so started by making a body jig...
But then fate intervened a little, first I managed to almost chop off my left thumb and forefinger at work and then, after it had just about healed injured my right eye, also at work....so I took the hint and decided to retire early and play with cars and bikes instead before something worse happened!!
I did all the bodywork a bit earlier this year without much problem although in the process I decided to lose the roof and turn it into a lwb convertible....
Then, a few days ago a something occurred to me, a) I've got a reasonably straight E Type I can take moulds from, b) I've got an accurate body jig and, c) I've got an old V12 XJS sitting in the garden!
So, tube chassis, V12 running gear, grp body panels....and just to make it a bit more interesting maybe an electric folding hardtop....
So, the reason for starting this thread is mainly for advice and suggestions but also to help prod myself along when I get to that point where I wish I hadn't started...
Oh, and btw, hope I've got the photo uploading right (can't see until I post this) and is this the right place for this kind of thread?
My plan was to slowly potter away rebuilding it in my spare time so started by making a body jig...
But then fate intervened a little, first I managed to almost chop off my left thumb and forefinger at work and then, after it had just about healed injured my right eye, also at work....so I took the hint and decided to retire early and play with cars and bikes instead before something worse happened!!
I did all the bodywork a bit earlier this year without much problem although in the process I decided to lose the roof and turn it into a lwb convertible....
Then, a few days ago a something occurred to me, a) I've got a reasonably straight E Type I can take moulds from, b) I've got an accurate body jig and, c) I've got an old V12 XJS sitting in the garden!
So, tube chassis, V12 running gear, grp body panels....and just to make it a bit more interesting maybe an electric folding hardtop....
So, the reason for starting this thread is mainly for advice and suggestions but also to help prod myself along when I get to that point where I wish I hadn't started...
Oh, and btw, hope I've got the photo uploading right (can't see until I post this) and is this the right place for this kind of thread?
Thanks for the welcome! But just to be clear, my E type blasphemy only went as far as removing the roof, the odd bit of deseaming and carbon fibre....oh and a Toyota gearbox....
and this thread is about building another car using all XJS parts, one that just looks a bit E type, but 4" wider and 9" longer....
and this thread is about building another car using all XJS parts, one that just looks a bit E type, but 4" wider and 9" longer....
To answer a few questions....I've worked in one form or other of motorsport for 30 odd years but both injuries came about whilst doing stainless fabrication work at a boatbuilders, before that nothing serious at all bar the odd burn, cut, etc....I've always done restoration/rebuild work in my spare time, more bikes than cars, I've got 5 ongoing projects almost done which will keep me solvent for a fair while...so, just thought, sod it, why bother about getting up early every morning? And quit full time work!
Over the years I've acquired pretty much every bit of equipment I'll need to build a road going car from scratch, so this thread is about giving it a go...
Yes, I chopped the roof off a series 1 E type but the body shell was terminally rusty and badly distorted, it had been for sale for some while before I came across it and no one else was daft enough to even think about rebuilding it. Also, it came with a pair of convertible rear wings and new rear wings for a 2+2 and associated panels cost almost £3000, I only needed to spend just under £600 to rebuild the whole body tub. So, essentially now most of the hard work is done and I'll carry on slowly putting it together but concentrate more on the V12 which is more fun!
Just spent the morning getting the XJS running and over the next few days I'll be pulling it apart before I start on a new chassis for it.....will post some notes about what exactly I have in mind soon....
Over the years I've acquired pretty much every bit of equipment I'll need to build a road going car from scratch, so this thread is about giving it a go...
Yes, I chopped the roof off a series 1 E type but the body shell was terminally rusty and badly distorted, it had been for sale for some while before I came across it and no one else was daft enough to even think about rebuilding it. Also, it came with a pair of convertible rear wings and new rear wings for a 2+2 and associated panels cost almost £3000, I only needed to spend just under £600 to rebuild the whole body tub. So, essentially now most of the hard work is done and I'll carry on slowly putting it together but concentrate more on the V12 which is more fun!
Just spent the morning getting the XJS running and over the next few days I'll be pulling it apart before I start on a new chassis for it.....will post some notes about what exactly I have in mind soon....
Well we'll see, I'm hoping for a fair bit less than 4 years but I do tend to do things in quick bursts (the E type shell rebuild took me 3 weeks) then sit back for a month or so....and have a nice long think....so far its only just that....thoughts... but I'm hoping to have at least the beginnings of a chassis done by around Xmas...
As to how it eventually looks....who knows?
Anyhow, a few of those thoughts about the chassis design but first I'll just say that the way I'll be doing it is making up a basic one first, changing bits as I go and when I'm happy with it, make a second one properly....replacing hand cut bits with laser cut ones, and things like floorpans, sills, etc with pattern Jaguar ones...
So, the first step will be a tube skeleton made from 40x40 box beginning as a cage around the XJS rear suspension with tapered outriggers supporting a boot floor (done so you can't see the exhaust hanging down as on an E type)and a pair running forward either side of the propshaft, around the gearbox and engine, supporting the lower wishbones (doing away with the XJS front subframe)and finishing as a front crossmember where the bonnet hinges.
Once that's done I'll add 3 floor crossmembers each side with side rails and a tube structure at the front bulkhead to hinge the doors off, support pedals, column etc and also build a detachable front subframe to support rack, rad, suspension, engine....much like standard E type engine frames.
Once that skeleton is made I plan to build strength in by building, basically, a sheet steel monocoque around it to tie everything together and, eventually be able to fit unstressed grp rear body moulding, doors and bonnet to.
The transmission tunnel will be a fair bit larger than an E type because there will be extra room inside but the sills pretty much identical...I'm still a bit vague about how the front bulkhead is going to be though, mainly because I have it in mind that the screen,its frame and the folding electric hardtop from a MX5 might look quite good....so until I can either measure, or get hold of one I'm leaving that part of the chassis up in the air for now!
That's it for now, I got the XJS running this morning so tomorrow its coming to bits.....anyone need any spare panels before I chop them (or maybe myself!) to bits??
As to how it eventually looks....who knows?
Anyhow, a few of those thoughts about the chassis design but first I'll just say that the way I'll be doing it is making up a basic one first, changing bits as I go and when I'm happy with it, make a second one properly....replacing hand cut bits with laser cut ones, and things like floorpans, sills, etc with pattern Jaguar ones...
So, the first step will be a tube skeleton made from 40x40 box beginning as a cage around the XJS rear suspension with tapered outriggers supporting a boot floor (done so you can't see the exhaust hanging down as on an E type)and a pair running forward either side of the propshaft, around the gearbox and engine, supporting the lower wishbones (doing away with the XJS front subframe)and finishing as a front crossmember where the bonnet hinges.
Once that's done I'll add 3 floor crossmembers each side with side rails and a tube structure at the front bulkhead to hinge the doors off, support pedals, column etc and also build a detachable front subframe to support rack, rad, suspension, engine....much like standard E type engine frames.
Once that skeleton is made I plan to build strength in by building, basically, a sheet steel monocoque around it to tie everything together and, eventually be able to fit unstressed grp rear body moulding, doors and bonnet to.
The transmission tunnel will be a fair bit larger than an E type because there will be extra room inside but the sills pretty much identical...I'm still a bit vague about how the front bulkhead is going to be though, mainly because I have it in mind that the screen,its frame and the folding electric hardtop from a MX5 might look quite good....so until I can either measure, or get hold of one I'm leaving that part of the chassis up in the air for now!
That's it for now, I got the XJS running this morning so tomorrow its coming to bits.....anyone need any spare panels before I chop them (or maybe myself!) to bits??
Thanks very much for the advice, apart from owning several I've never really had much to do with Jaguars before I bought the E type and the Rob Beere site completely new to me!! The radius arm mod is exactly what I had in mind, the pic is a bit small but thinking his arms are rose jointed where I'll make new arms with bushes instead specially as I'm going to stick with the cage, using E type mounts rather than XJS as they seem a bit firmer.
Also, just seen the reaction plate he does...that's my Xmas present sorted!!!!
That's great work on the IRS site and I'm tempted to change plans and do away with the cage (but only a little bit!), an awful lot more work....and I've got plenty of that ahead already!
Also, just seen the reaction plate he does...that's my Xmas present sorted!!!!
That's great work on the IRS site and I'm tempted to change plans and do away with the cage (but only a little bit!), an awful lot more work....and I've got plenty of that ahead already!
So much for getting most of the chassis done by Xmas! But at least I've finally made a start....
It took a while for the advice to sink in but I decided not to go ahead with relocating the radius arms, way too much effort for little gain....and a lot of clearance issues!
I've got some E type panels on order, sills and rear quarter panels so will be starting on the sheet metal work when they arrive, I was going to get a boot floor as well...til I saw the price...so will make my own...it would have needed modifying anyway since planning to tuck the silencers up high....so they can't be seen from the side. Also hoping to be able to use the XJS tank over the axle but there are going to be issues there as well....I got hold of an electric roof from an MX5...and it looks like that will want to be in the same space!!
It took a while for the advice to sink in but I decided not to go ahead with relocating the radius arms, way too much effort for little gain....and a lot of clearance issues!
I've got some E type panels on order, sills and rear quarter panels so will be starting on the sheet metal work when they arrive, I was going to get a boot floor as well...til I saw the price...so will make my own...it would have needed modifying anyway since planning to tuck the silencers up high....so they can't be seen from the side. Also hoping to be able to use the XJS tank over the axle but there are going to be issues there as well....I got hold of an electric roof from an MX5...and it looks like that will want to be in the same space!!
No pics this time I'm afraid...broke my camera at the weekend, but some progress though.
Have been thinking about some of the things that will give me problems further on such as window sealing, door hinging/locking/latching, wipers etc and slightly changed plans....I'm happy enough designing and building chassis/suspension but the hard part for me is getting all that fiddly stuff to work!
So have just acquired a cat C write off, 2011 MX5 which will be donating its bulkhead, windscreen, wiper/washers, demist, electric hardtop, doors and A and B posts....all to be incorporated into my chassis.
The doors will need a bit of alteration to get the E type look I'm after but the bonus of having a pretty much off the shelf interior is too much of a temptation....it'll be re trimmed in a more appropriate way though.....
Have quite a few reservations about just how a Mazda screen and hardtop is going to look plonked on top of what will essentially be an E type body but I'm just going to suck it and see! Actually, the hardtop itself isn't that dissimilar to a series1/2 hardtop.....can't really say the same for the screen though!!!!
Have been thinking about some of the things that will give me problems further on such as window sealing, door hinging/locking/latching, wipers etc and slightly changed plans....I'm happy enough designing and building chassis/suspension but the hard part for me is getting all that fiddly stuff to work!
So have just acquired a cat C write off, 2011 MX5 which will be donating its bulkhead, windscreen, wiper/washers, demist, electric hardtop, doors and A and B posts....all to be incorporated into my chassis.
The doors will need a bit of alteration to get the E type look I'm after but the bonus of having a pretty much off the shelf interior is too much of a temptation....it'll be re trimmed in a more appropriate way though.....
Have quite a few reservations about just how a Mazda screen and hardtop is going to look plonked on top of what will essentially be an E type body but I'm just going to suck it and see! Actually, the hardtop itself isn't that dissimilar to a series1/2 hardtop.....can't really say the same for the screen though!!!!
Ok, camera is working again (put batteries in the wrong way) so here is a pic of progress....
The outer sill is in about the right position and will have a tube structure running along inside it eventually but my MX5 shell hasn't arrived yet and I need exact dimensions before I go any further. I'm using the Mazda B posts which incorporate the hardtop pivots so trying to leave as much clearance as I can for the hardtop to swing down into....wouldn't want to be driving about semi erect!
The outer sill is in about the right position and will have a tube structure running along inside it eventually but my MX5 shell hasn't arrived yet and I need exact dimensions before I go any further. I'm using the Mazda B posts which incorporate the hardtop pivots so trying to leave as much clearance as I can for the hardtop to swing down into....wouldn't want to be driving about semi erect!
I did a fair bit of measuring before I chopped the shell to pieces....the rear wings needed flairing out by about 12mm to fit the tyres. And though my plan is to build a full spaceframe inside the shell it did cross my mind that you could far more easily adapt an MX5 to take both the V12 motor and XJS rear suspension....
I've kept the relevant bits just in case I'm tempted to try it one day....the motor easily fits the original front chassis 'legs' (though I think there may be some ex manifold clearance issues!), a bonnet bulge may be needed as well....a W58 box fits in the tunnel....and if you were to make a new subframe to replace the Jaguar 'cage' it should be possible to get the diff, driveshafts, etc in as well....
Just as I was writing this I've seen a link someone sent me....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ZIIVsUV3U
Its been done already! and to a Mk 1 as well!!
I've kept the relevant bits just in case I'm tempted to try it one day....the motor easily fits the original front chassis 'legs' (though I think there may be some ex manifold clearance issues!), a bonnet bulge may be needed as well....a W58 box fits in the tunnel....and if you were to make a new subframe to replace the Jaguar 'cage' it should be possible to get the diff, driveshafts, etc in as well....
Just as I was writing this I've seen a link someone sent me....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ZIIVsUV3U
Its been done already! and to a Mk 1 as well!!
Yes, agree about the look of E type screens, I was worried that the Mazda one would look out of place but it seems ok, the real bonus though is that using the doors and hardtop as well means that everything all fits beautifully in place and seals properly!
I've been playing about with it today and found I can comfortably move the engine 6" back from its original position on the XJS which apart from improving weight distribution also gives me more space to alter the front suspension.....
Since ride quality (not to mention saving work!) is more of a priority than handling I made the decision to retain the rubber mounted front subframe....
But to do away with the existing Jaguar coil springs and separate dampers and replacing them with coilovers...that does work but means the lower mount has to be much further inboard than it need be and a sort of outrigger has to be made for the upper mount so that the spring fits through the upper wishbone (unless I reduce travel to about 2"!). So, I'm mulling over using inboard coils with a pushrod running from the lower balljoint area, through the upper wishbone to a pivot and then to the springs.
But 2 things I'm not certain about and would very much welcome opinions....
The pivot itself, thinking of something in aluminium rather than making it myself and first thought was motorbike ones but not sure they are man enough? Most seem to have either 8 or 10mm bolts where it pivots....like this Ducati one
And second question, mounting the pivot itself and the damper mount....should that be to the new chassis or the subframe....both ways are possible.
On the XJS the spring is located in the subframe but the damper directly to the bodyshell...bypassing the rubber mounts as it were....not sure which route to take....or come to that if it even matters!!
I've been playing about with it today and found I can comfortably move the engine 6" back from its original position on the XJS which apart from improving weight distribution also gives me more space to alter the front suspension.....
Since ride quality (not to mention saving work!) is more of a priority than handling I made the decision to retain the rubber mounted front subframe....
But to do away with the existing Jaguar coil springs and separate dampers and replacing them with coilovers...that does work but means the lower mount has to be much further inboard than it need be and a sort of outrigger has to be made for the upper mount so that the spring fits through the upper wishbone (unless I reduce travel to about 2"!). So, I'm mulling over using inboard coils with a pushrod running from the lower balljoint area, through the upper wishbone to a pivot and then to the springs.
But 2 things I'm not certain about and would very much welcome opinions....
The pivot itself, thinking of something in aluminium rather than making it myself and first thought was motorbike ones but not sure they are man enough? Most seem to have either 8 or 10mm bolts where it pivots....like this Ducati one
And second question, mounting the pivot itself and the damper mount....should that be to the new chassis or the subframe....both ways are possible.
On the XJS the spring is located in the subframe but the damper directly to the bodyshell...bypassing the rubber mounts as it were....not sure which route to take....or come to that if it even matters!!
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