BMW E36 328i Saloon Track Car Project!
Discussion
Sooooo..... I was told I needed to start a thread for this 
Hopefully it will be better than my other Readers' Cars threads, where there's usually a flurry of updates then nothing for months as I then either get bored or don't do anything to the car as I am doing stuff to another one etc.
Here is the newly purchased 'loon!:
I am definitely of the absolutely mad persuasion. I took a train ride in yesterday's extreme weather all the way to Swansea from Leeds to collect this £800 car! Mad, I know. But I wanted a saloon, with a manual 'box and with decent history and mileage.
This popped up as a part ex taken by a dealer. I spoke to them about it and left a deposit, confident it was the right car.
A bit of background, just to bring all of this into context; The Mrs and I attended the PH Xmas track day at Goodwood. We enjoyed ourselves so much that we pretty much instantly decided that track days would be a major feature of our lives from then on. But I wanted even more. I wanted to race!
I found out about the Trackday Trophy entry level racing series and it was decided fairly quickly that we would build a car for it. The idea is to get our race licenses and as much track time as we can this year, before entering the series next year. Neither of us want to be a mobile chicane, so this seemed like a good route for us.
Anyway, back to the story! I missed my connecting train by 2 mins thanks to delays and ended up being an hour later than planned from that point onwards. On a side note, my delay meant that I was able to get some breakfast at Manchester Piccadilly. Why I chose to get that breakfast from Burger King is a question that will haunt me forever. I had something they call the Double Big Beefy which is basically their Bacon Double Cheese XL burger but with egg instead of cheese and a slice of tomato. I can eat, but that thing left me feeling like I may die immienently....
But I digress! Still recovering from my brekfast burger nightmare, I boarded the next train. And found that it was a crappy one with no power sockets etc. The one I was supposed to be on DID have sockets, or so the cleaner told me. All going great so far.
Eventually I get to Swansea and I drive the car. The steering is wooly, the suspension boat like, but the engine is good and those things can be fixed. The real talking point was actually the boot floor and the jacking points. The rear two jacking points are rusty as hell and I managed to prod my way through a bit of the rust in front of one of them. The jacking points themselves are solid, but the area around them is going to need work.
The boot floor is probably going to need replacing and that's an unexpected blow. I bought the car anyway, partly because I was so far from home if I am honest, but partly because despite these things, I could still see potential.
The car has done 124k. The original Nikasil engine was swapped out for a brand new item by BMW in Swansea. I spoke to them in advance myself and confirmed this. This was done at 51k, so the actual mileage on the current engine is 73k! That's pretty awesome.
The electrics all work which is great, but there are remote sensors inside but no remote key. Anybody know if these are likely to be standard fitment, i.e. can I buy a new remote key from BMW? Or is it likely to be an aftermarket system?
There's lots of history with the car, plenty of stamps etc. It has a full MOT with it also. I argued the toss with the salesman and got him to knock £100 off in light of the rust issues. I explained to him that I would not have come all that way to piss him about and haggle, but that I couldn't accept the agreed price in light of what I'd found. He very reluctantly agreed and then still charged my card the full amount, before I brought this to his attention and received a refund of £100!
Hmm.
I also agreed to take it on a spares or repairs basis because really, who takes an £800 car back 260 miles if it turns out there's something wrong with it?! Makes no difference to me.
The drive home was long, but largely drama free. I did have a nice chat with a friendly policeman in the back of his car near Sheffield after he pulled me over to ask if it was my car and to tell me nothing was showing up on the system for the MOT, insurance, tax etc.
Obviously I had all of the docs with me and let him have a browse through them. Happy all was in order he sent me on my way and wished me well. Nice bloke.
I've now got 4 cars and move house this weekend into a house with a small drive and not much parking. 2 of them have to go. The wife's SLK and my MR2. We're going on a new adventure now....
Hopefully it will be better than my other Readers' Cars threads, where there's usually a flurry of updates then nothing for months as I then either get bored or don't do anything to the car as I am doing stuff to another one etc.
Here is the newly purchased 'loon!:
I am definitely of the absolutely mad persuasion. I took a train ride in yesterday's extreme weather all the way to Swansea from Leeds to collect this £800 car! Mad, I know. But I wanted a saloon, with a manual 'box and with decent history and mileage.
This popped up as a part ex taken by a dealer. I spoke to them about it and left a deposit, confident it was the right car.
A bit of background, just to bring all of this into context; The Mrs and I attended the PH Xmas track day at Goodwood. We enjoyed ourselves so much that we pretty much instantly decided that track days would be a major feature of our lives from then on. But I wanted even more. I wanted to race!
I found out about the Trackday Trophy entry level racing series and it was decided fairly quickly that we would build a car for it. The idea is to get our race licenses and as much track time as we can this year, before entering the series next year. Neither of us want to be a mobile chicane, so this seemed like a good route for us.
Anyway, back to the story! I missed my connecting train by 2 mins thanks to delays and ended up being an hour later than planned from that point onwards. On a side note, my delay meant that I was able to get some breakfast at Manchester Piccadilly. Why I chose to get that breakfast from Burger King is a question that will haunt me forever. I had something they call the Double Big Beefy which is basically their Bacon Double Cheese XL burger but with egg instead of cheese and a slice of tomato. I can eat, but that thing left me feeling like I may die immienently....
But I digress! Still recovering from my brekfast burger nightmare, I boarded the next train. And found that it was a crappy one with no power sockets etc. The one I was supposed to be on DID have sockets, or so the cleaner told me. All going great so far.
Eventually I get to Swansea and I drive the car. The steering is wooly, the suspension boat like, but the engine is good and those things can be fixed. The real talking point was actually the boot floor and the jacking points. The rear two jacking points are rusty as hell and I managed to prod my way through a bit of the rust in front of one of them. The jacking points themselves are solid, but the area around them is going to need work.
The boot floor is probably going to need replacing and that's an unexpected blow. I bought the car anyway, partly because I was so far from home if I am honest, but partly because despite these things, I could still see potential.
The car has done 124k. The original Nikasil engine was swapped out for a brand new item by BMW in Swansea. I spoke to them in advance myself and confirmed this. This was done at 51k, so the actual mileage on the current engine is 73k! That's pretty awesome.
The electrics all work which is great, but there are remote sensors inside but no remote key. Anybody know if these are likely to be standard fitment, i.e. can I buy a new remote key from BMW? Or is it likely to be an aftermarket system?
There's lots of history with the car, plenty of stamps etc. It has a full MOT with it also. I argued the toss with the salesman and got him to knock £100 off in light of the rust issues. I explained to him that I would not have come all that way to piss him about and haggle, but that I couldn't accept the agreed price in light of what I'd found. He very reluctantly agreed and then still charged my card the full amount, before I brought this to his attention and received a refund of £100!
Hmm.
I also agreed to take it on a spares or repairs basis because really, who takes an £800 car back 260 miles if it turns out there's something wrong with it?! Makes no difference to me.
The drive home was long, but largely drama free. I did have a nice chat with a friendly policeman in the back of his car near Sheffield after he pulled me over to ask if it was my car and to tell me nothing was showing up on the system for the MOT, insurance, tax etc.
Obviously I had all of the docs with me and let him have a browse through them. Happy all was in order he sent me on my way and wished me well. Nice bloke.
I've now got 4 cars and move house this weekend into a house with a small drive and not much parking. 2 of them have to go. The wife's SLK and my MR2. We're going on a new adventure now....
It would be an unfair comparison! It's an MR2 roadster, but it's on brand new suspension. This thing most certainly is not 
Strangely enough, I exchanged my first E36 328i Sport for an MR2 Turbo. I absolutely loved that car and I still think I will own another one day, despite the fact they are getting old and knackered now.
The E36 is a different drive. It's very civilised on the motorway etc, but the handling on them is certainly sharp when everything is in order. If you want slidy fun, the BMW is for you. MR2's aren't really suited to more than the tiniest bits of power oversteer when coming out of junctions etc. because of the way they are balanced. I will miss my roadster though. It just needed more power (and was originally going to get it!).
This car will make a far better track toy for me, as it can be caged, carry a spare set of wheels etc.
I have already ordered new tie rods and track rod ends!
I remember my old one, putting new shocks and Eibach springs on it really enhanced it. It changed direction very well and was rewarding to drive. The roar of the engine on top of all that is great.
Strangely enough, I exchanged my first E36 328i Sport for an MR2 Turbo. I absolutely loved that car and I still think I will own another one day, despite the fact they are getting old and knackered now.
The E36 is a different drive. It's very civilised on the motorway etc, but the handling on them is certainly sharp when everything is in order. If you want slidy fun, the BMW is for you. MR2's aren't really suited to more than the tiniest bits of power oversteer when coming out of junctions etc. because of the way they are balanced. I will miss my roadster though. It just needed more power (and was originally going to get it!).
This car will make a far better track toy for me, as it can be caged, carry a spare set of wheels etc.
I have already ordered new tie rods and track rod ends!
I remember my old one, putting new shocks and Eibach springs on it really enhanced it. It changed direction very well and was rewarding to drive. The roar of the engine on top of all that is great.
Edited by TroubledSoul on Thursday 22 January 15:34
Sammo123 said:
Looks like a tidy car from that pic. Shame about the rust but at least the engines good 
I'm picking up my 318i Saloon on Sunday which will eventually have the engine from my 328i Coupe fitted (or maybe a home brew 3.0 if I can get the bits for a reasonable price!)
My mind was blown when I saw how much 3.0 engines go for!I'm picking up my 318i Saloon on Sunday which will eventually have the engine from my 328i Coupe fitted (or maybe a home brew 3.0 if I can get the bits for a reasonable price!)
Sf_Manta said:
Good cars these, friend had an E36, and I've had 4 E30s, and now moved up to an E46.
One thing that's a HUGE improvement is upgrading the bushes. Both me and my friend installed powerflex bushes in the front wishbone lolipops, and at the back (I had the subframe and diff mounts changed, he had the RTA bushes changed by me one day). I'll be doing the same to the E46 once the current bushes expire.
It's not a massive cost to do, and if you're handy with spanners and have a vice handy you can change them in an afternoon if you know how to attack the bushes (Usually involves a hacksaw and a blowtorch!)
From my friend's comments, the E36 went from having an unpredicable rear end, to one that was incredibly planted and the car as a whole felt more direct to drive.
Some bushes are a bloody pain in the arse. I do have a bush removal kit (not a razor! One thing that's a HUGE improvement is upgrading the bushes. Both me and my friend installed powerflex bushes in the front wishbone lolipops, and at the back (I had the subframe and diff mounts changed, he had the RTA bushes changed by me one day). I'll be doing the same to the E46 once the current bushes expire.
It's not a massive cost to do, and if you're handy with spanners and have a vice handy you can change them in an afternoon if you know how to attack the bushes (Usually involves a hacksaw and a blowtorch!)
From my friend's comments, the E36 went from having an unpredicable rear end, to one that was incredibly planted and the car as a whole felt more direct to drive.
) kicking arouind somewhere. I will try to do them all myself. I had to top the coolant up this morning, as it was complaining on the OBC. I found it very low and topped it right up, but couldn't see any trace of a fill line on the bottle. Let's hope it isn't going through coolant, as that wouldn't be good....
Humour said:
OP, good buy. I was actually eyeing that car up as it came up on the classifieds.
If you intend to use it for track/racing purposes "only", I would strongly suggest that you overhaul the cooling system as a starting point. A Steward EMP Water pump, 82C thermostat and a 80C auxiliary fan temperature switch, new OEM thermostat housing and Silicone water hoses (if you can find the right one's) are a good way to go.
A friend and I recently bought into a 328 tack car and had the above done including a new rad and tank (the level sensor was gunked up in our case) before the car went onto a track. From what I have managed to research, the M52 engines are pretty much bullet proof if you can manage the heat and have a tip top cooling system to avoid overheating and head gasket problems. Other than that, good oil fit for purpose and only ageing sensors can be a cause of additional cost.
Some ppl have said that oil temps can also run high especially with consistent laps on track, but this will be subject to the water system efficiency as one will have an effect on the other. The more serious guys are modifying to include an oil cooler and gauges to have visibility of what's going on internally, but their setups are much more advanced on all fronts so they are able to push their package and drivetrain harder and longer.
There are a number of threads here on PH from people who have done what you are planning to do and there is allot of information with pictures regarding 328 prep for track work and for more serious racing, so do have a look around.
Humour
Thank you. It's a fair old smoker at the moment, so I am really hoping the head gasket isn't on its way out. If you intend to use it for track/racing purposes "only", I would strongly suggest that you overhaul the cooling system as a starting point. A Steward EMP Water pump, 82C thermostat and a 80C auxiliary fan temperature switch, new OEM thermostat housing and Silicone water hoses (if you can find the right one's) are a good way to go.
A friend and I recently bought into a 328 tack car and had the above done including a new rad and tank (the level sensor was gunked up in our case) before the car went onto a track. From what I have managed to research, the M52 engines are pretty much bullet proof if you can manage the heat and have a tip top cooling system to avoid overheating and head gasket problems. Other than that, good oil fit for purpose and only ageing sensors can be a cause of additional cost.
Some ppl have said that oil temps can also run high especially with consistent laps on track, but this will be subject to the water system efficiency as one will have an effect on the other. The more serious guys are modifying to include an oil cooler and gauges to have visibility of what's going on internally, but their setups are much more advanced on all fronts so they are able to push their package and drivetrain harder and longer.
There are a number of threads here on PH from people who have done what you are planning to do and there is allot of information with pictures regarding 328 prep for track work and for more serious racing, so do have a look around.
Humour
Edited by Humour on Friday 23 January 13:18
I let the Mrs have a drive last night. She's fazed by the fact that so much needs doing to it, but I always knew that would be the case anyway, as none of the OEM stuff would be good enough for a track car.
I am hoping against hope that some Bilstein suspension we bought for her SLK but never got around to fitting, will be taken back in exchange for something else by Larkspeed. I'll happily take a Bilstein PSS coilover kit in exchange if they are willing to play ball. Considering we bought it four months or so ago though it would be extremely good of them to agree to do so. It doesn't hurt to ask though.
I'm currently in talks with various parties for a few bits I need. The gear shift is sloppy, so I will likely fit some new bushes. I do want some sort of short shift kit but am worried that if I buy one of the Z3 shifter oriented ones, I will end up wanting to replace it again with something more robust for track use. I don't want to buy anything twice.
Will be using the car as much as I can for the next few days to see if anything happens with the coolant level.
Humour said:
Well, that depends on how serious you are and how far you want to go with the driving/racing project. I am of the opinion that not all OEM parts are crap, but all are going to be aged and heat cycled for sure. We went with OEM rad, expansion bottle and thermostat housing amongst a few others so costs can be kept down. Other things like bushes as previously mentioned will require upgrade for the type of use.
It would be a result if you can negotiate something with LS and get a deal, PSS9 equipment good for track from other's experiences, as far as I'm aware is in the 1.4-5K range.
Geeks's advice is excellent and no doubt comes from experience. The Z3M short shift rebuild components can be had for 100 or less in parts from a main dealer. We will be going that way when we get to 'that' issue lol. There is another option from Poland on ebay, but it is untested here, can give you the details if you wish to consider it.
We managed to source and fit a Z3 rack on feedback from others and we like it along with a few other items completed at the front end.
Send me the details and I'll gladly have a look. I can actually buy BMW the parts with staff discount now as I have a friend who works for them. The problem with the Z3 setup is that I don't have the facility for bending the shifter or the selector rod which it appears you have to do. It would be a result if you can negotiate something with LS and get a deal, PSS9 equipment good for track from other's experiences, as far as I'm aware is in the 1.4-5K range.
Geeks's advice is excellent and no doubt comes from experience. The Z3M short shift rebuild components can be had for 100 or less in parts from a main dealer. We will be going that way when we get to 'that' issue lol. There is another option from Poland on ebay, but it is untested here, can give you the details if you wish to consider it.
We managed to source and fit a Z3 rack on feedback from others and we like it along with a few other items completed at the front end.
The suspension exchange is unfortunately a no go, but I meant PSS, not PSS9.
What did you do with the Z3 rack for the bracket that they say is needed to attach a pipe to?
Dannbodge said:
Looks great!
On the short shifter. I got a Z3m one for my 328i, makes the throws about 25% shorter and pretty notchy.
I got a weighted gear knob on mine which makes them 10000% better than stock.
It also has a satisfying metal clink when shifting (Like open gate ferraris etc have)
How did you bend the shifter? Understeer.com says that you need to but I don't really have the facilities. On the short shifter. I got a Z3m one for my 328i, makes the throws about 25% shorter and pretty notchy.
I got a weighted gear knob on mine which makes them 10000% better than stock.
It also has a satisfying metal clink when shifting (Like open gate ferraris etc have)
Z3 steering rack arrived yesterday!
I am hoping to go and see a top body shop later today to get a rough quote on the welding in of the replacement boot floor. After this flurry, things may go slightly dark for a while but I will be updating as I fit certain bits.
Oh and because the suspension is shafted on this, I have got a set of M3 shocks, springs and anti roll bars for the princely sum of £25 as a stop gap to allow me to move it about and test things without it being like a tilt train around the corners! That's assuming the stuff is in good working order, but at £25 I figured it was worth a punt. It will definitely get coilovers as soon as finances permit.
I am hoping to go and see a top body shop later today to get a rough quote on the welding in of the replacement boot floor. After this flurry, things may go slightly dark for a while but I will be updating as I fit certain bits.
Oh and because the suspension is shafted on this, I have got a set of M3 shocks, springs and anti roll bars for the princely sum of £25 as a stop gap to allow me to move it about and test things without it being like a tilt train around the corners! That's assuming the stuff is in good working order, but at £25 I figured it was worth a punt. It will definitely get coilovers as soon as finances permit.
Well I went to pick up my new gear knob earlier, as one which doesn't come off would be a great upgrade! I decided to order the Z3M shifter and a couple of circlips as per the link posted above. That link stated that it should work without having to bend it etc. so I hope it does, else I'll be pretty frustrated.
I did wonder about buying those other bits but it sounded like I wouldn't need to refresh them from that link. I have however ordered a couple of bits from the US, so have delrin pedal bushes coming and a pair of delrin shift bushes. I also already ordered the main round bearing that goes on the shifter. I'll have a think about those other bits.
I did wonder about buying those other bits but it sounded like I wouldn't need to refresh them from that link. I have however ordered a couple of bits from the US, so have delrin pedal bushes coming and a pair of delrin shift bushes. I also already ordered the main round bearing that goes on the shifter. I'll have a think about those other bits.
f0xy said:
The Z3M shifter will feel like it sits too far forward when in 1st/3rd/5th when just put onto the car, some might like it and others dont. I adjusted the angle of mine slightly to make it more like the original item, was easy enough in a vice.
The other problem with it is, depending on what propshaft/gearbox you are on, the bottom of the shifter will sometimes touch the propshaft when in the middle position. I ended up dropping the gearbox 2-3mm so it has sufficient clearance.
I was worried about the prospect of it touching the propshaft. Ultimately it will be running the 328 box, M3 propshaft and Evo diff. I was hoping the Z3M item wouldn't need bending. The other problem with it is, depending on what propshaft/gearbox you are on, the bottom of the shifter will sometimes touch the propshaft when in the middle position. I ended up dropping the gearbox 2-3mm so it has sufficient clearance.
Understeer.com also sell a bent selector rod. Would I be better off buying that?
Thanks F0xy, maybe I need to invest in some kind of bench and a vice.... I don't really want it to feel too far forward as that would ruin it for me.
I am hoping to speak to someone about welding a boot floor in tomorrow morning. Hopefully that won't bee too bad. I also need to decide which bushes to buy. I see that Powerflex are now doing their black ones for track use. There are so many brands doing these things now though and many of them much cheaper than Powerflex.
Might be the case that the diff carrier mounts are better off with the regular purple bushes (or their equivalent) purely from the POV of it being allowed a small amount of flex with those?
I am hoping to speak to someone about welding a boot floor in tomorrow morning. Hopefully that won't bee too bad. I also need to decide which bushes to buy. I see that Powerflex are now doing their black ones for track use. There are so many brands doing these things now though and many of them much cheaper than Powerflex.
Might be the case that the diff carrier mounts are better off with the regular purple bushes (or their equivalent) purely from the POV of it being allowed a small amount of flex with those?
Unfortunately I cannot find the rear diff carrier bushes on ECP.
I am actually considering buying a set of cheapo Hot Tuning coilovers. I know, I know. Buy cheap, buy twice etc. but that's actually OK by me if it means I can put something firmer on, save some money right now to put towards the boot and floor repairs and actually have some form of handling for this year's track days. Next year I'd replace them with something more suited to proper racing.
Need to give this some thought. There are a few things I will probably buy cheaper versions of and then replace once I get more serious, like buckets that are out of date and that sort of thing.
Makes sense to me right now to get the car to a useable track spec as cheaply as I can and then upgrade to proper stuff as and when needed/wanted. It's a long term thing after all.
I am actually considering buying a set of cheapo Hot Tuning coilovers. I know, I know. Buy cheap, buy twice etc. but that's actually OK by me if it means I can put something firmer on, save some money right now to put towards the boot and floor repairs and actually have some form of handling for this year's track days. Next year I'd replace them with something more suited to proper racing.
Need to give this some thought. There are a few things I will probably buy cheaper versions of and then replace once I get more serious, like buckets that are out of date and that sort of thing.
Makes sense to me right now to get the car to a useable track spec as cheaply as I can and then upgrade to proper stuff as and when needed/wanted. It's a long term thing after all.
Dannbodge said:
Put it in a vice with two large drills either side and hit it with a rubber mallet.
It's surprisingly soft and east to bend.
I also drilled through the outer casing, through the central shaft and put some hard steel pins through becasue the only thing holding the shaft to the gearknob normally is rubber.
Hmm I'll see what I can come up with. Will it 100% need bending? I actually thought (forgotten exactly what I read now) that it just was the 1.9 shifter that needed bending.It's surprisingly soft and east to bend.
I also drilled through the outer casing, through the central shaft and put some hard steel pins through becasue the only thing holding the shaft to the gearknob normally is rubber.
Sf_Manta said:
I've used the purple ones for years, had them on 2 cars, one of which was flung around on a drift day with no issues suspension wise (Power steering pump however blew a seal!)
Definitely recommended.
Well that will certainly do for me. Definitely recommended.
Therein lies the next dilemma, however. It seems stupid not to get the subframe reinforcements welded in when I swap over the diff etc. but that would mean paying all the extra labour to have the swap done on top of having it welded, as it's pointless me doing that then having to have it dropped again.
I think this will take a bit of thinking about....
Stuck a tank of Super in on Saturday and running a bit of Redex through. Using the car this week to keep an eye on the coolant level. Got to McDonald's to grab a breakfast wrap on my way into work and all was going well.... until I tried to put the window back up.
Cue lots of awkward grinding sounds and a piece of window glass trying to make a break for freedom from its frame... Pfft.
Could do without bulls
t things like this! Car is now parked with the window slightly open. It was the best I could do!
On a more positivie note, I picked up a pair of bucket seats last night. I paid £90 for the pair! They are very basic old Sparco seats, the type you'd probably pay a max of £150 each for brand new, but they're a start.
Cue lots of awkward grinding sounds and a piece of window glass trying to make a break for freedom from its frame... Pfft.
Could do without bulls
t things like this! Car is now parked with the window slightly open. It was the best I could do!On a more positivie note, I picked up a pair of bucket seats last night. I paid £90 for the pair! They are very basic old Sparco seats, the type you'd probably pay a max of £150 each for brand new, but they're a start.
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