Another Clio! A 172 this time as a Daily!
Discussion
Well, I had my fun with the BMW but I decided it was time to move on! As of a week ago I bought a Clio but let's see what I owned previously in terms of French Fancies.
To save this for another thread I shall give you the short version. My love affair with French cars started with driving a Pug 205 GTi DTurbo (that last part you read right!). A 306 GTI-6 however made me decide that I needed one!
So for my first GTi it was this:
Between a few friends where planned to buy a car to rally I then became a part of owning this car!
By this point the 306 had gone after quite a bit of work, so I bought this off a friend. Surprisingly it was quite good fun!
After this was sold I bought a right dog of a 106 GTi and commissioned it into use after some work:
Briefly I owned a dog of a Clio as well. My theme with French cars certainly can be said to be interesting, that is for sure. Even in 1.4 flavour it was not a bad steer truth be told:
After this was sold I have enough classic cars to keep me busy! With me now becoming a 1 classic car man a daily was required. Many cars entered the list including the following:
1) Audi TT 225 - Most of these seemed ropey and tired for my budget and with a plethora of common issues.
2) Mini Cooper S R53 - Same as the above and the day to day MPG put me off (the above seem to be more frugal!).
3) Mercedes W124 300TD. Many of these seemed either pricey for a W124 or simply tired. Maybe they have increased in value.
So a varied choice! A Clio 172 has been considered on many occasions but I never quite gelled with them as I did with the 306 or 205s in all honesty. Their plus points were hard to ignore though (good MPG combined with a number of toys. Add to that a great chassis and a pokey engine and they are a lovely package even with the lacklustre steering).
When a low mileage example turned up I decided it was worth a look. For once someone had been accurate with their description! The car drove lovely and with no real faults present! A deal was struck!
Now for some pics of the current motor!:
I have to say that I have grown on this car very quickly despite its condition and history. It drives like it is on rails, and still retains many fun handling features of older hot hatches. They certainly do represent excellent VFM!
What is the spec with this car. IMO it is not a bad one including:
Quantum Remap (180ish BHP)
KTR panel filter
Samco Inlet pipe with breather pipe.
Proflow Cat back system with 182 tailpipes with bumper (this is actually fairly quiet!)
Speedline Turini Wheels
Cup Carbon Fibre washer jet blanks
Cup Rear Spoiler
RenaultSport Mats (Genuine).
Truth be told it did help that the car was in a good spec, or at least for me. IME from a friend the pattern backboxes barely last a couple of years if you are a lucky with the genuine items being expensive, making this solution quite attractive! I also always liked the Turini wheels on the Clio Sports
.
So far I have given the car a service (it was running for a short while on Bosch Super 4 Plugs! Why?) and it has been a superb daily runner!
We shall see if I do more but now it is time to enjoy.
To save this for another thread I shall give you the short version. My love affair with French cars started with driving a Pug 205 GTi DTurbo (that last part you read right!). A 306 GTI-6 however made me decide that I needed one!
So for my first GTi it was this:
Between a few friends where planned to buy a car to rally I then became a part of owning this car!
By this point the 306 had gone after quite a bit of work, so I bought this off a friend. Surprisingly it was quite good fun!
After this was sold I bought a right dog of a 106 GTi and commissioned it into use after some work:
Briefly I owned a dog of a Clio as well. My theme with French cars certainly can be said to be interesting, that is for sure. Even in 1.4 flavour it was not a bad steer truth be told:
After this was sold I have enough classic cars to keep me busy! With me now becoming a 1 classic car man a daily was required. Many cars entered the list including the following:
1) Audi TT 225 - Most of these seemed ropey and tired for my budget and with a plethora of common issues.
2) Mini Cooper S R53 - Same as the above and the day to day MPG put me off (the above seem to be more frugal!).
3) Mercedes W124 300TD. Many of these seemed either pricey for a W124 or simply tired. Maybe they have increased in value.
So a varied choice! A Clio 172 has been considered on many occasions but I never quite gelled with them as I did with the 306 or 205s in all honesty. Their plus points were hard to ignore though (good MPG combined with a number of toys. Add to that a great chassis and a pokey engine and they are a lovely package even with the lacklustre steering).
When a low mileage example turned up I decided it was worth a look. For once someone had been accurate with their description! The car drove lovely and with no real faults present! A deal was struck!
Now for some pics of the current motor!:
I have to say that I have grown on this car very quickly despite its condition and history. It drives like it is on rails, and still retains many fun handling features of older hot hatches. They certainly do represent excellent VFM!
What is the spec with this car. IMO it is not a bad one including:
Quantum Remap (180ish BHP)
KTR panel filter
Samco Inlet pipe with breather pipe.
Proflow Cat back system with 182 tailpipes with bumper (this is actually fairly quiet!)
Speedline Turini Wheels
Cup Carbon Fibre washer jet blanks
Cup Rear Spoiler
RenaultSport Mats (Genuine).
Truth be told it did help that the car was in a good spec, or at least for me. IME from a friend the pattern backboxes barely last a couple of years if you are a lucky with the genuine items being expensive, making this solution quite attractive! I also always liked the Turini wheels on the Clio Sports
.So far I have given the car a service (it was running for a short while on Bosch Super 4 Plugs! Why?) and it has been a superb daily runner!
We shall see if I do more but now it is time to enjoy
.Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 12th March 23:34
marky911 said:
Another corker!
We've had a few similar cars. A man of great taste.
PS. I'm not stalking you. It's just that I'll click on a thread and go "Wow, excellent" and then realise it's another one of yours.
No worries, I have had a flick through your post (I shall have to comment on it when I get some spare time!) and I have to say that you do indeed have great taste. It is good to see that some readers are pleased with my choice of motors over the years We've had a few similar cars. A man of great taste.
PS. I'm not stalking you. It's just that I'll click on a thread and go "Wow, excellent" and then realise it's another one of yours.
.grenpayne said:
Good choice, my silver 172 is also running Turinis and a Cup Spoiler and I also use mine as a daily and have done for the past 4 years. As long as you get one that's been looked after (which appears your has) then bang for buck, they're almost unbeatable.
You are also spot on about the OEM back boxes, I've had 2 since I've owned the car so when the current one goes, I'll be getting a stainless job. You might want to have a look at the Cooksport Springs as your car is sitting a little high? They lower the car a touch but still retain the decent ride.
Thank you for the kind comments. I got the same impression before truth be told. As you can see I have had a few French cars and none of them were that bad! Truth be told an 06 Passat I owned was far worse than all of them for issues and reliability! I guess French cars (especially hatches with large engines shoehoned into them) do come with a reputation.You are also spot on about the OEM back boxes, I've had 2 since I've owned the car so when the current one goes, I'll be getting a stainless job. You might want to have a look at the Cooksport Springs as your car is sitting a little high? They lower the car a touch but still retain the decent ride.
This was TBH could have done with a service a little sooner than I did (I am a little pickier than most there mind you) but but it has got low mileage in addition to having cash thrown at it over the years. It even has the odd Mark Fish receipt present in the history folder!
The car does look a little high in some of those shots as a result of the uneven ground, but coming from a lowered E36 and my Escort RS Turbo on Ledas it is nice to have something at a decent height. However I shall bear in mind that recommendation in the future.
iacabu said:
Very nice!
I'm hoping to pick up a 172 cup on Saturday morning... Can't wait
Many thanks. If it is a good 'un you'll love it. I almost went for an R53 Cooper S over this! After driving this more I am glad I went with it! Sure the Mini has better styling inside and offers a superior motorway experience but the performance for me was not all that in addition to the experience leaving me a little lukewarm truth be told!I'm hoping to pick up a 172 cup on Saturday morning... Can't wait
Not much to update here. With some driving in London during the weekend (when did London get so busy) and driving back to Warwick with a number of town trips the car has averaged 34MPG via a tank to tank method. Not too bad I guess when I was putting my foot down on a few of the backroads (they are to be enjoyed after all eh?).
In other news I finished completing the service after going through the Service history. It seems that a few years ago someone put in Bosch Super 4 Plugs, probably because it is what a certain Euro supplier sell for them and the fact that they are a 1/3 of the price of the platinums. After 30k it was definitely time to tie changing them with the service with the correct NGK Platinum plugs, or PFR6E-10s for the plug afficionados.
Suffice to say the plugs had seen better days but the engine seems to be healthy going by the state of them:
I am glad to say that the car despite running well before does seem to run a little better now thankfully.
In other news I finished completing the service after going through the Service history. It seems that a few years ago someone put in Bosch Super 4 Plugs, probably because it is what a certain Euro supplier sell for them and the fact that they are a 1/3 of the price of the platinums. After 30k it was definitely time to tie changing them with the service with the correct NGK Platinum plugs, or PFR6E-10s for the plug afficionados.
Suffice to say the plugs had seen better days but the engine seems to be healthy going by the state of them:
I am glad to say that the car despite running well before does seem to run a little better now thankfully
.Ah, not good!
Besides the above hiccup how has Clio ownership treated you?
Re-Edit: I'd be careful with replacing ignition bits with anything but OEM ignition parts. Pattern and 'upgraded' ignition parts tend to cause more issues IME.
Besides the above hiccup how has Clio ownership treated you?
Edited by SebringMan on Tuesday 17th March 19:38
Re-Edit: I'd be careful with replacing ignition bits with anything but OEM ignition parts. Pattern and 'upgraded' ignition parts tend to cause more issues IME.
Edited by SebringMan on Wednesday 18th March 22:36
Wow, you do have a collection of Clios and it seems that you have the best! Out of the mods you have done what do you recomennd and is there anything else you can suggest for my car? I am attempting to not fiddle with it as IMO it is a great package as it is but we shall see how long that thought holds for.
Is there much to report? Not really truth be told. I am simply been enjoying this. I have no idea whether the Turinis on 195s would improve handling but boy this car loves to stick in the corners, the chassis really is a joy .
As for MPG this is getting around 28MPG on a work commute and a very short one at that. On a run I have seen true figures between 38 and 43MPG, so not too bad for what it is.
However, one expense is about to arrive; the cambelt :/. The car according to the receipts last had a cambelt done at 29,000 miles by Mark Fish Motorsport in 2010. Come forward to 2015 and the car is now on 70k. Certainly from a mileage perspective it does not require changing, but I dare not risk seeing how long the belt can go on for in this unknown territory.
As a result I have booked the car into BTM Performance to get the belts, tensioners and dephaser pulley all changed. It's an expense I could have done without but OTOH I should not have missed such a key bit of info when buying the car. Ah well, at least it's a very clean car (rare for me!) and with many desirable extra bits....
.As for MPG this is getting around 28MPG on a work commute and a very short one at that. On a run I have seen true figures between 38 and 43MPG, so not too bad for what it is
.However, one expense is about to arrive; the cambelt :/. The car according to the receipts last had a cambelt done at 29,000 miles by Mark Fish Motorsport in 2010. Come forward to 2015 and the car is now on 70k. Certainly from a mileage perspective it does not require changing, but I dare not risk seeing how long the belt can go on for in this unknown territory.
As a result I have booked the car into BTM Performance to get the belts, tensioners and dephaser pulley all changed. It's an expense I could have done without but OTOH I should not have missed such a key bit of info when buying the car. Ah well, at least it's a very clean car (rare for me!) and with many desirable extra bits....
The story was left with my car going to BTM Performance to have its cambelt change undertaken. Whilst it was there the dephaser rattle was picked out almost straight away. It did not sound as bad as some of the YouTube videos in all honesty. Out of all of them it probably sounded like this one albeit quieter, at least to me anyway:
https://youtu.be/gXjmMpvtxc4
I thought, well, hoped that it may have been a tensioner until Fred confirmed my suspicions. A couple of days later and my car had a new dephaser, and new belts with pulleys. Sure enough the car seems to be alot quieter now!
At the time it was noted that whilst the car was a very clean example the cam timing was slightly out from the last specialist that did the work (no, it was not K-Tec, but a very well respected Clio Sport specialist). Whether they used a dial gauge to check TDC is still debatable. That said the car does seem slightly torquier lower down (not much though!) and the top end may have a little more of a kick, but nothing to shout home about. Naturally this could all be in my mind after such an expense! OTOH with the oil being changed as a result of the dephaser swap I should not need to service it for a year or so given that I only gave it a full service a month or 2 beforehand.
As a treat for the car I decided to see what power this car kicked out. With this decided off I headed with some Clio Sport.net peeps to a rolling road in Bidford on Avon.
This was the result:
159BHP at the wheels. Not a bad figure for a 172. The lowest figure was 149BHP for a stock 172 with the 182 all making what mine was oddly enough give or take 1BHP. The highest figure (albeit by 2 BHP!) was by a 172 Cup with a K-Tec exhaust and Sports cat, and IMO a remap.
I knew why the car went so well! What I did know also what that the car did not stop so well! Upon pressing the pedal I was greeted by faint grinding noises yet the brake pads had plenty of life and the discs on the face of it looked almost new! It did however have an advisory for the MOT stating that the discs 'looked worn, grooved or scored, but not seriously weakened' and it did also pass the brake test with no real inbalance. High speed braking also required commitment; I remember Fred @BTM saying that my brakes were shocking! Before I ended up rear ending somebody (easy!) they did require attention swifly.
Off I went and puchased a new set of discs and pads whilst getting together some familiar lubes (no, not like that!) for the job:
Discs? Check
Pads? Check
Brake Grease? Check
Copper Grease? Check
New sliding plates? Check (not necessary, but read on...)
With the a simple external inspection everything looked fine:
Even after removal things looked rosy. Why am I changing these again?
Ah, maybe not?
In places the discs on the inside had worn the grooves down almost flush. A 2mm step had formed within the mid circumference of the braking area.
Take a guess as to which pads were the inner pads on the car...
But hang on, these brakes are nearly new and with not so shoddy parts including Brembo Max discs and Ferodo pads! What could cause this?
There are many reasons why this is said to happen. Some specialists say that the inner pads seized into the carrier causing the above, often saying to remove the anti rattle plates so as to prevent it. This was something I was keen to avoid so as to not have pads clunking about, this is my daily after all. On the other hand I did not wish to have the same problem happen again!
I have never been a fan of copper grease on sliding surfaces finding that it can congeal (indeed, the sliders seemed to have brake dust and gunk on them. Brake grease in these applications however seems to have worked for me in the past. This is a controversial topic so as Columbo (RIP) said, I'll say one more thing on it.
Here is one of the 2 sticking sliders I removed with traces of the good ol' copper grease:
Where I do use copper grease however is for hub faces and fixings, so as to prevent seizing.
I also noticed that there was some corrosion present (well, slight rusting) on the carriers below the plates. I know that on most pre '95 Brembo 4 pots 'plate lift' is a big problem causing pads to seize in. Maybe this is often an overlooked area.
With a wire attachment on drill, followed by some 240 grit sandpaper the surface was smooth once more. To safeguard it I put some Etch primer onto the bare surfaces followed by brake grease. When it came to install the new sliding plates & pads with the aforementioned grease on the sliding surfaces the pads were definitely free to move about on the plates, far moreso than the old pads.
After that it was time to refit everything:
Whilst the pads took some time to bed in they do work very well now! I am pleased that the car can come to a stop under its own steam!
For those of you who have not fallen asleep there was one thing left to do on the car ; regas the AC. This has never worked under my ownership. So off the car went to an AC specialist I have previously used. After performing the vacuum test (and finding 50g worth of stuff in there) there were surprisingly no leaks detected (or major in the guy's words in terms of what a vacuum test can do). After which the car was regassed. It is great to have the AC back working in the car for sure!
In all these first few months have not been the cheapest but I have also seen to a couple of issues that should not plague the car again with any luck. There are one or two more things left to attend to (reversing switch and headlight restoration) but for now they can wait .
Thanks for reading.
https://youtu.be/gXjmMpvtxc4
I thought, well, hoped that it may have been a tensioner until Fred confirmed my suspicions. A couple of days later and my car had a new dephaser, and new belts with pulleys. Sure enough the car seems to be alot quieter now!
At the time it was noted that whilst the car was a very clean example the cam timing was slightly out from the last specialist that did the work (no, it was not K-Tec, but a very well respected Clio Sport specialist). Whether they used a dial gauge to check TDC is still debatable. That said the car does seem slightly torquier lower down (not much though!) and the top end may have a little more of a kick, but nothing to shout home about. Naturally this could all be in my mind after such an expense! OTOH with the oil being changed as a result of the dephaser swap I should not need to service it for a year or so given that I only gave it a full service a month or 2 beforehand.
As a treat for the car I decided to see what power this car kicked out. With this decided off I headed with some Clio Sport.net peeps to a rolling road in Bidford on Avon.
This was the result:
159BHP at the wheels. Not a bad figure for a 172. The lowest figure was 149BHP for a stock 172 with the 182 all making what mine was oddly enough give or take 1BHP. The highest figure (albeit by 2 BHP!) was by a 172 Cup with a K-Tec exhaust and Sports cat, and IMO a remap.
I knew why the car went so well! What I did know also what that the car did not stop so well! Upon pressing the pedal I was greeted by faint grinding noises yet the brake pads had plenty of life and the discs on the face of it looked almost new! It did however have an advisory for the MOT stating that the discs 'looked worn, grooved or scored, but not seriously weakened' and it did also pass the brake test with no real inbalance. High speed braking also required commitment; I remember Fred @BTM saying that my brakes were shocking! Before I ended up rear ending somebody (easy!) they did require attention swifly.
Off I went and puchased a new set of discs and pads whilst getting together some familiar lubes (no, not like that!) for the job:
Discs? Check
Pads? Check
Brake Grease? Check
Copper Grease? Check
New sliding plates? Check (not necessary, but read on...)
With the a simple external inspection everything looked fine:
Even after removal things looked rosy. Why am I changing these again?
Ah, maybe not?
In places the discs on the inside had worn the grooves down almost flush. A 2mm step had formed within the mid circumference of the braking area.
Take a guess as to which pads were the inner pads on the car...
But hang on, these brakes are nearly new and with not so shoddy parts including Brembo Max discs and Ferodo pads! What could cause this?
There are many reasons why this is said to happen. Some specialists say that the inner pads seized into the carrier causing the above, often saying to remove the anti rattle plates so as to prevent it. This was something I was keen to avoid so as to not have pads clunking about, this is my daily after all. On the other hand I did not wish to have the same problem happen again!
I have never been a fan of copper grease on sliding surfaces finding that it can congeal (indeed, the sliders seemed to have brake dust and gunk on them. Brake grease in these applications however seems to have worked for me in the past. This is a controversial topic so as Columbo (RIP) said, I'll say one more thing on it.
Here is one of the 2 sticking sliders I removed with traces of the good ol' copper grease:
Where I do use copper grease however is for hub faces and fixings, so as to prevent seizing
.I also noticed that there was some corrosion present (well, slight rusting) on the carriers below the plates. I know that on most pre '95 Brembo 4 pots 'plate lift' is a big problem causing pads to seize in. Maybe this is often an overlooked area.
With a wire attachment on drill, followed by some 240 grit sandpaper the surface was smooth once more. To safeguard it I put some Etch primer onto the bare surfaces followed by brake grease. When it came to install the new sliding plates & pads with the aforementioned grease on the sliding surfaces the pads were definitely free to move about on the plates, far moreso than the old pads.
After that it was time to refit everything:
Whilst the pads took some time to bed in they do work very well now! I am pleased that the car can come to a stop under its own steam!
For those of you who have not fallen asleep there was one thing left to do on the car ; regas the AC. This has never worked under my ownership. So off the car went to an AC specialist I have previously used. After performing the vacuum test (and finding 50g worth of stuff in there) there were surprisingly no leaks detected (or major in the guy's words in terms of what a vacuum test can do). After which the car was regassed. It is great to have the AC back working in the car for sure!
In all these first few months have not been the cheapest but I have also seen to a couple of issues that should not plague the car again with any luck
. There are one or two more things left to attend to (reversing switch and headlight restoration) but for now they can wait .Thanks for reading.
Edited by SebringMan on Saturday 6th June 09:50
The 'to do' list with my car is shrinking slowly but surely.
For quite some time, well, since I bought the car the reversing lights have never worked. Car parks have been interesting to say the least. I heard that the gearbox sensor was an issue here but I thought I would check the car out first, given that the gearbox has to be partially drained for the sensor to be fitted due to its location.
After obtaining a new reversing sensor, establishing that it went to a dead short upon closing I shorted the wires out on the car with the ignition on. Sure enough the reversing lights worked for the very first time ever in my ownership. With that in mind I ordered 4 litres of Elf's finest; Elf Tranself NFJ 75W80 GL4+ gearbox oil. With some food grade plastic tubing and a funnel I was ready to get stuck in.
Whilst I was draining the gearbox oil I cleaned the misting oil around the selector shaft and noticed a slight amount of play in one of the linkages at the bottom of the gearbox, but the selector shaft is play free.
What was strange was how clean the gearbox oil was that came out of the gearbox! Maybe it had been done before. However, with the new Elf stuff in the gearbox is now pretty much silent :smiley:. Furthermore the gear changes have improved from cold. It also helps that people can see where I am reversing now! It is nice when a job works out like this :smile:.
Now to look into changing the bush/rod at the bottom of the gearbox in an effort to improve the gearchanges. Any ideas if the parts are available seperately?
For quite some time, well, since I bought the car the reversing lights have never worked. Car parks have been interesting to say the least. I heard that the gearbox sensor was an issue here but I thought I would check the car out first, given that the gearbox has to be partially drained for the sensor to be fitted due to its location.
After obtaining a new reversing sensor, establishing that it went to a dead short upon closing I shorted the wires out on the car with the ignition on. Sure enough the reversing lights worked for the very first time ever in my ownership. With that in mind I ordered 4 litres of Elf's finest; Elf Tranself NFJ 75W80 GL4+ gearbox oil. With some food grade plastic tubing and a funnel I was ready to get stuck in.
Whilst I was draining the gearbox oil I cleaned the misting oil around the selector shaft and noticed a slight amount of play in one of the linkages at the bottom of the gearbox, but the selector shaft is play free.
What was strange was how clean the gearbox oil was that came out of the gearbox! Maybe it had been done before. However, with the new Elf stuff in the gearbox is now pretty much silent :smiley:. Furthermore the gear changes have improved from cold. It also helps that people can see where I am reversing now! It is nice when a job works out like this :smile:.
Now to look into changing the bush/rod at the bottom of the gearbox in an effort to improve the gearchanges. Any ideas if the parts are available seperately?
It has been a quite one for me but I have been making progress. There is less to change on the car (Steering wheel if I am picky but it is not bad by any stretch, and maybe a front end respray, but again it is not that bad especially for it being a daily and maybe the top engine mount), it is almost feeling strange!
When the car went to BTM Performance Fred commented on the car's great condition but pointed out a few things I should keep an eye on. While most of these have been taken care of the thermostat had not. He reckoned that with a new one the car would run a little smoother and be just so. With the old thermostat the gauge used to sit bang on half way, maybe go under by half a mm or go the other way, where they tend to sit (slightly above halfway). On the basis that winter is coming and there seems to be little evidence of the coolant being changed I went to Renault to purchase some Type D and a new thermostat.
Initially all looks fine:
Again, everything looks OK:
Errrr, maybe not! The inner thermostat seal had perished and split, causing one side of the seal to expand and come away.
I then filled the engine up with Type-D until coolant came out of the bleed hose when I then filled the coolant to the max and fired it up. It seemed to warm up quicker than previously and the gauge stayed just slightly above 1/2 way without budging at all! On my drive back the coolant level dropped to the minimum where I promptly topped it up once the car had cooled down. I would like to think that the level has settled and all air has come out.
Maybe it is placebo but the car was quite sharp on the throttle which I put down to the remap ; a friend of mine was not too keen about this from his 172. It does seem to be smoother than before as well. The heater is also hotter than before, handy with winter not being miles away and for those cold nights. I had had cars where the gauge does not even approach halfway!
When the car went to BTM Performance Fred commented on the car's great condition but pointed out a few things I should keep an eye on. While most of these have been taken care of the thermostat had not. He reckoned that with a new one the car would run a little smoother and be just so. With the old thermostat the gauge used to sit bang on half way, maybe go under by half a mm or go the other way, where they tend to sit (slightly above halfway). On the basis that winter is coming and there seems to be little evidence of the coolant being changed I went to Renault to purchase some Type D and a new thermostat.
Initially all looks fine:
Again, everything looks OK:
Errrr, maybe not! The inner thermostat seal had perished and split, causing one side of the seal to expand and come away.
I then filled the engine up with Type-D until coolant came out of the bleed hose when I then filled the coolant to the max and fired it up. It seemed to warm up quicker than previously and the gauge stayed just slightly above 1/2 way without budging at all! On my drive back the coolant level dropped to the minimum where I promptly topped it up once the car had cooled down. I would like to think that the level has settled and all air has come out.
Maybe it is placebo but the car was quite sharp on the throttle which I put down to the remap ; a friend of mine was not too keen about this from his 172. It does seem to be smoother than before as well. The heater is also hotter than before, handy with winter not being miles away and for those cold nights. I had had cars where the gauge does not even approach halfway!
Synchromesh said:
Out of interest, how does the 172 compare to the GTI-6?
I should probably point out a few things.My GTi-6 had 99k when I bought it but it was 7 years old as opposed to the Clio now being 12 years old but with 74k now. It was a clean car however.
With that out of the way I prefer the Clio
. The 306 gained pace possibly a little quicker between the gears due to the 6 speed gearbox but the Clio is no slouch. On a 1/4 mile I actually got better times with the Clio with almost a second in it! The Pug had the nicer exhaust note I reckon however.In terms of cornering the GTi-6 was great but the Clio IMHO is something else. It is more playful and predictable, yet no less fun! I trust the Clio more in the bends and enjoy throwing it around if that helps. At high speed the Clio feels very planted compared to the GTi-6 and the 106 GTi I owned. At 3 figures the 306 felt a little light on the front! My Porsche 944s felt very planted at these speeds and the Clio is surprisingly no different. It does feel in some ways like a sorted 205 GTi. The ride is not too bad either! I am seriously consider renewing the suspension with genuine parts next year as opposed to the Bilstein B14s but we shall see.
Where the Pug does win in the handling stakes is in steering feel ; the Clio 172 (and others I have been in) have never had very communicative steering whereas the GTi-6 feels very natural for a PAS setup, probably one of the best PAS setups I have come across despite the weight of the steering. I would not say the Clio is horrific though, the EPAS systems in BMWs these days take care of that
.The interiors are similar, but the Clio does seem more up to date obviously and with more handy toys! The AC seems to work better for one!
The Pug is roomier and more of an easier car to live with in terms of space however.
Both are cheap to run for their performance IMO but the Clio has a pricey cambelt change ; while it is not complicated it can be fubared by mechanics who think tippexing will work. The GTi-6 is similar but it is an easier belt change. However, I could never see more than 39MPG out of the Pug without driving like a nun; 33MPG was the norm. The Clio will easily see 33MPG and on motorways see 40MPG if staying around the speed limit ; I have even had 43MPG out of the Clio via a tank to tank calculation! That IMHO is not much worse than what I got out of diesels! My route to the gym will see around 38MPG from the Clio whereas an Insignia 2.0 CDTi did around 50MPG in comparison, the DCI Kangoos and Clios would usurp that figure but of course they would be slower.
Hopefully the above gives you the answer you want
.Many thanks for the kind remarks .
When I drove other small engined cars when it came to sell the 306 they were not much better than the Clio TBH on fuel! OK if you drove like a nun they would be but then most hot hatches are not anyway! OK, you could argue that it defeats the point of having a hot hatch, but then I see it another way. You can be calm and save on fuel on the commutes and open the taps as desired as opposed to left wishing you had something faster and more fun.
However, your pic is not showing :/.
I do sometimes have the same thoughts as you but I'd be looking at a Phase 1 GTi-6 myself.
.Polarbert said:
Cracking looking car. Had many a good time in my 182 over the years I had it. Even managed 47mpg on a 70 mile stint on the motorway. Had to stick to around 55mph but I was bloody impressed.
I notice that owners either hate them or love them! Many thanks for the comms. The looks were part of the reason for why I bought the car TBH ; Speedline Turinis just look fab on them.When I drove other small engined cars when it came to sell the 306 they were not much better than the Clio TBH on fuel! OK if you drove like a nun they would be but then most hot hatches are not anyway! OK, you could argue that it defeats the point of having a hot hatch, but then I see it another way. You can be calm and save on fuel on the commutes and open the taps as desired as opposed to left wishing you had something faster and more fun.
However, your pic is not showing :/.
Synchromesh said:
Thanks for that. I'm after one of the two at some point but I don't know which - seems like swings and roundabouts. Prefer the looks of the 306 too, but 172s seem much easier to come by.
I am biased here but I would go for the Clio, but look very carefully for one that has been maintained well, and not by how 'mint' the buyer thinks the car is. Bar the cambelt they are cheaper to run than a GTi-6 IMO (rear beams on most 306s may now require attention as will the beam mounts ; these transform how old Pugs drive).I do sometimes have the same thoughts as you but I'd be looking at a Phase 1 GTi-6 myself.
benny.c said:
It's worthwhile swapping the bus steering wheel for an aftermarket one to improve the steering feel IMHO. I went for a 350mm one with a slight dish which also improved the driving position for me.
From two other cars it made a similar difference. I am debating on what steering wheel to go for. How do you get around the airbag light bar unplugging the bulb?
benny.c said:
Just fit a 3.9 Ohm resistor in each of the airbag plugs (you'll need two). They are about 30p from Maplins.
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/please-read-after...
I shall bear that in mind in the future, as I do toy with fitting another steering wheel. It is surprising the difference it has have on the driving experience.http://www.cliosport.net/threads/please-read-after...
Since the last update it has been a case of business as usual. The car has been performing well, except for a water leak in the boot appearing the originate from the N/S/R. I shall have to start stripping things down but I suspect it's coming from the rear cluster. I am not sure if I left the cluster nut loose but I have simply refitted it for now and to see what happens.
In more exciting news it seemed like a good idea to do just what other Clio Sport drivers appear to do ; a trackday! I have meant to do this with all of my cars but it has only happened to a select few unfortunately! The day began with a damp start at Cadwell Park. With rain being forecasted, having 3mm on my front tyres in addition to the car appearing to slide about on the sighting lap I was not looking forward to the rest of the day, with a few thoughts of a waste of time going through my head. I had booked some instruction however
.This however did not matter. Rain or shine it was a joy to drive the car around Cadwell. The instruction from the tutor also helped quite a bit with considering a few things I had not done so previously. It is fair to say that I drove away a happy man that day, even if I did use almost a full tank around Cadwell!
What was quite surprising was how great the car was at speed through the corners and some of the machinery it showed up on track! OTOH maybe the wet weather came into my favour with a FWD hot hatch ; the Caterhams didn't seem massively quick around track surprisingly! However, there were a few surprisingly quick cars on the day including a Javelin stickered MX-5, an Orange MkII Golf and a very clean looking Scooby which was going around the track like a stabbed rat, albeit not quite as reliable as some cars.
There were better shots but it seems they are not on the website.
However, I do need to master the art of making the car cock its rear wheel up in the car [/facepalm]. I don't recall doing so at all I hate to say! I could argue that it was raining alot and that there was quite a bit of stuff in the boot but it seems I should have tried harder or taken a different approach to make it happen!
From the last post I decided for some silly reason that I needed some winter or track wheels!
This is what I have ended up with:
They are not as orange as the most orange wheels but pleasant they are not. The caps are also Black for these wheels.
I doubt they will go onto the car until the colour is changed. So far I have anthracite or White in mind :
This is what I have ended up with:
They are not as orange as the most orange wheels but pleasant they are not. The caps are also Black for these wheels.
I doubt they will go onto the car until the colour is changed. So far I have anthracite or White in mind :
I guess the time would come when I fitted the joker's wheels pending my Turinis only having 2mm of tread up front! You could say that the car has become festive. Or maybe I am simply coming up with excuses:
In terms of handling I am unsure what to do! Although still having a firm ride it is more supple! It does also strangley seem to have more bite. Even though the weather has gone colder my MPG has gone up nicely albeit not by alot! It is also great to park in town without the fear of kerbing the wheels despite the them having laughable rim protection from the tyres and no longer taking time to park to the dismay of motorists behind me ; these Clios do not have a great turning circle. The Uniroyal RainSport 3s up front are superb in the wet and grip well in the dry but I am not all too keen on their characteristics in the dry! They were not my first choice of type up front however, but I did need tyres on that day with my choices being limted to the RS3s, Pirelli Cintrintos and Bridgestone Turanzas ; not an amazing choice by any stretch.
When some of you see this photo you will be aware of possibly what job I did on the Clio today!:
Yup, my washer jets had packed up completely the other month! I remember a friend telling me just how much of a pain it was to change, with him giving me some great advice on the way. I also saw a guide on here thanks to [USER=14479]@Mells[/USER] . It really did save me alot of time! Despite the above things did not go to plan due to a few things:
-The wiper arms being stuck on ; The driver's arm came off with a gear puller I had but I had to buy a wiper arm removal tool for the passenger side due to it being more stubborn and less access without bonnet removal
-A washer pump connundrum. Again, I was warned about this via another member/friend with a 172 - Most listings only sell the non headlamp washer pump, which doesn't fit. Although the item from GSF after going through getting the 'correct' one obtained and fitted it did not work right. It squirted onto the front fine, but the rear? It just did the front! After going back to GSF, seeing that they had nothing that fitted another factor (Leamoco) got me the right part, again with detective work - why the wrong pump is listed is beyond me! Thank God I tested everything before the car went back together!
What I would say is that if you are doing this job on a weekend and you need the car for work the next day get the Renault item ; Yes it is £50 but at least you won't be stranded without wipers etc. It is not like removing the pump is a 5 minute job either! I was lucky today in that one motor factor near me on my doorstep had the pump in stock and that I booked a weekday off work. A mail order item would have had me being annoyed for sure! It also would have saved me a good chunk of time too. OTOH I do wonder if a garage would have picked up on the rear washer not working and how much they would have charged, given that it is not as straightfoward to change as it is on other cars.
In terms of handling I am unsure what to do! Although still having a firm ride it is more supple! It does also strangley seem to have more bite. Even though the weather has gone colder my MPG has gone up nicely albeit not by alot! It is also great to park in town without the fear of kerbing the wheels despite the them having laughable rim protection from the tyres and no longer taking time to park to the dismay of motorists behind me ; these Clios do not have a great turning circle. The Uniroyal RainSport 3s up front are superb in the wet and grip well in the dry but I am not all too keen on their characteristics in the dry! They were not my first choice of type up front however, but I did need tyres on that day with my choices being limted to the RS3s, Pirelli Cintrintos and Bridgestone Turanzas ; not an amazing choice by any stretch.
When some of you see this photo you will be aware of possibly what job I did on the Clio today!:
Yup, my washer jets had packed up completely the other month! I remember a friend telling me just how much of a pain it was to change, with him giving me some great advice on the way. I also saw a guide on here thanks to [USER=14479]@Mells[/USER] . It really did save me alot of time! Despite the above things did not go to plan due to a few things:
-The wiper arms being stuck on ; The driver's arm came off with a gear puller I had but I had to buy a wiper arm removal tool for the passenger side due to it being more stubborn and less access without bonnet removal
-A washer pump connundrum. Again, I was warned about this via another member/friend with a 172 - Most listings only sell the non headlamp washer pump, which doesn't fit. Although the item from GSF after going through getting the 'correct' one obtained and fitted it did not work right. It squirted onto the front fine, but the rear? It just did the front! After going back to GSF, seeing that they had nothing that fitted another factor (Leamoco) got me the right part, again with detective work - why the wrong pump is listed is beyond me! Thank God I tested everything before the car went back together!
What I would say is that if you are doing this job on a weekend and you need the car for work the next day get the Renault item ; Yes it is £50 but at least you won't be stranded without wipers etc. It is not like removing the pump is a 5 minute job either! I was lucky today in that one motor factor near me on my doorstep had the pump in stock and that I booked a weekday off work. A mail order item would have had me being annoyed for sure! It also would have saved me a good chunk of time too. OTOH I do wonder if a garage would have picked up on the rear washer not working and how much they would have charged, given that it is not as straightfoward to change as it is on other cars.
Some of you may have noticed a minor detail on my car changing. As much as I love Turinis the car is a daily, and I hate kerbed wheels, not helped on a car with appaling steering lock. I am not a kerb hunter by a long shot but the lack of rim protection on my current tyres (Contis and Toyos) really does not help. I wanted a set of 15s for this reason as well as curiosity but also for practicality. Being a little tight (when did OZ F1s and Turbines become expensive?) the car looked as it did above.
After gathering enough cash the Turinis went back on, but not after the car saw a layer of Collinite along with the wheels. Turinis do look good eh?
An engine cover also went onto the engine:
But with two Continental slicks I would hardly be able to drive it anywhere. Off they went for a refurb. Because of the Clio I ended up taking the Escort down:
Like the Turinis, I also treated these to a dose of Collinite in the hope of them being easier to clean in the future:
Oh, I changed two of the tyres for Uniroyal RS3s. I am still undecided:
At the time I did not have the right nuts for the cap, and so I went capless. It is fair to say they look better in the new colour:
But like any Clio it can be a needy mistress. At MOT time the 2 year old track rod end decided it would have play in it after 18k. I did wonder why it felt wierd but I put it down to the tyres which are Uniroyal Rainsport 3s. They grip, but they are not most responsive of tyres from the cars I have driven with them on.
Hopefully the Lemforder item will last longer.
Likewise the 3 year old pattern exhaust hanger decided it would also let the exhaust hang low and knock against parts of the car. With a new item on all is well again:
Yup, that's goosed:
It may have been aided staying together with a zip tie!:
With this all done the car was spot on. Expect one more thing but this is down to me!
The car has a cracked ABS ring which at low speed causes pulsing in the brakes. Now and again the ABS/SERV combo come on, probably twice in a year. One day when I was low on fuel I had Connect 3 appear on the dashboard:
French cars, who'd have 'em? They are fun for sure however!
After gathering enough cash the Turinis went back on, but not after the car saw a layer of Collinite along with the wheels. Turinis do look good eh?
An engine cover also went onto the engine:
But with two Continental slicks I would hardly be able to drive it anywhere. Off they went for a refurb. Because of the Clio I ended up taking the Escort down:
Like the Turinis, I also treated these to a dose of Collinite in the hope of them being easier to clean in the future:
Oh, I changed two of the tyres for Uniroyal RS3s. I am still undecided:
At the time I did not have the right nuts for the cap, and so I went capless. It is fair to say they look better in the new colour:
But like any Clio it can be a needy mistress. At MOT time the 2 year old track rod end decided it would have play in it after 18k. I did wonder why it felt wierd but I put it down to the tyres which are Uniroyal Rainsport 3s. They grip, but they are not most responsive of tyres from the cars I have driven with them on.
Hopefully the Lemforder item will last longer.
Likewise the 3 year old pattern exhaust hanger decided it would also let the exhaust hang low and knock against parts of the car. With a new item on all is well again:
Yup, that's goosed:
It may have been aided staying together with a zip tie!:
With this all done the car was spot on. Expect one more thing but this is down to me!
The car has a cracked ABS ring which at low speed causes pulsing in the brakes. Now and again the ABS/SERV combo come on, probably twice in a year. One day when I was low on fuel I had Connect 3 appear on the dashboard:
French cars, who'd have 'em? They are fun for sure however!
Couchwarrior316 said:
Was right enjoying that until you sold it!
Tempted to start one of these for my 182 - as soon as I sort the horrible creaking out I will. Probably
It's hard to tell with a lack of comments sometimes :P.Tempted to start one of these for my 182 - as soon as I sort the horrible creaking out I will. Probably
Anyway @couchwarrier , joking aside I was on the fence with regards to what to do with it. It was a clean car and I did just fancy keeping it for a while, maybe even mothballing it for the future. It is rare to get a car that is clean but very usable. It was no minter but it was very very straight, so much that the specialist said it was one of the cleanest 172s he had seen. Then I thought I'll put it up for quite a high price and see what happens. It was about the priciest Phase 2 172 I saw for sale. Imagine my shock when it sold within a few days of going up! You never know, it may be a PHer
.I reckon I'll be back one day, but I do love trying out new things. So much that this photo shows you what I've tried:
Cliff J said:
I went looking to buy one of these a year ago, but on test driving I found I just couldn't get my seating right. I was either too close to the wheel or too far from my gearstick, no inbetween, in the end I went for a MK4 Golf, which felt right straight away.
I know what you mean about the driving position. It is a little high, and the gearstick a little far away. However, there are kits out there to bring the gearstick closer to you (the Megane Scenic shifter also does this) as well as tightening the shift.I almost considered a Golf like yourself after driving a mate's V6 4 Motion. Until I went on track with it. Even stock, the Clios are absolute belters around the track!
Speaking of trying different things, here are the new cars. The Mazda however will have to go soon potentially:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
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