Capri GTT... V10, 550bhp

[andygtt]

So this is my third thread in readers cars, and I still have all the cars

My GTT project supercar is on hold pending me having a lot more spare time and money to do it right, the Modified Noble has gone as far as I want to take it having made every panel in Lacquered vac formed Carbon and tuned it to 700bhp. With a 0-150mph in 10 seconds I don't think there is much more I could do

So enter the Capri GTT, I don't have much to look at as its early days, I have the Capri, I have the engine, I have the X pack kit and I have the plan.

Currently the spec is:
Capri 2.0s 1982 strengthen
BMW V10 engine tuned to 550-600bhp (no emissions or cat needed due to age of car)
Stand alone ecu
X pack
18inch wheels 10inch or more rear and 9-10inch front
6 or 7 speed BMW gearbox (depends if I can get the 7 speed that I have working manually)
Large brakes to fill the 18's
Full carbon roof

The capri I bought is a rolling car without an engine or box, it was actually a feature car in retro ford mag a few months back when it had a Cossie YB in it. I bought it as its a well looked after car with minimal rust, I was actually surprised how clean it was and its going to make an excellent base for the project.




Test fitted some 10inch rear and 9inch fronts... this is the look I want and they fitted much better than I expected





Couldn't resist a quick trial fit of the X pack rear


Engine bay is measured and will accept the V10 without major fettling.
[IMGhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/21tjtu69b4i3t6r/IMG_3651_zps0zx5mnhy.jpg?raw=1[/IMG]

Here is a pic of the engine, I have owned the M5 for 4 years and its off the road with flood damage to the electronics.


I have the roll cage on order along with a load of T45, plan is to get the sunroof welded up and then get the roof perfect so I can take a mould off it... I will then start the beefing up of the car. Im keeping the original shell and chassis and adding to it. I will then remove all the metal skin from the car and replace roof with my carbon one and the arches with the ford x pack arches.
Of cause while that is all going on I will be test fitting the engine and box and planning the suspension changes.

Big list of jobs

Edited by andygtt on Monday 26th March 10:14

[andygtt]

Megaflow said:

500bhp in a Capri? That's going to need the mother of all paving slabs in the boot!

Ironically the standard mk3 2.0s with full tank and driver has exactly 50:50 weight distribution apparently... The handling reputation was down to ford not making any attempt to locate the rear axle, easily sorted :-)

Don't worry, this Capri will handle and stop as well as it goes ;-)

[andygtt]

wst said:

Does the X-pack fit simply on top of the body skin or does it replace that area of bodywork entirely?

It's designed to fit over modified existing body at the back and replace the wings completely at the front, I'm intending to remove all the skin and only have the xpack....

I'm currently 50:50 as to if the x pack will end up carbon, I guess it will depend on the fit, amount of modifications I want to make and how much filler it takes to make perfect.... In All fairness they look like they are pretty good out the box.
With exception of the roof which will be lacquered carbon, the entire car will be painted in a odeon pearl :-)

[andygtt]

e21jason said:

You can convert the BMW v10 ecu to stand alone which might save some money.

what are you for the rear end 4 link i guess, ford nine inch or volvo 240.

Ade from classic ford is build a twin turbo v6 drfit Capri i can give you his email if you to discus chassis upgrades.

I looked into using the stock ecu by people who have done it in the UK, it was 3 times the money of a stand alone unit (over 40 units done with the stand alone).

For reasons people have aluded to above I will be retaining the ford Atlas axle... basically I need to retain the original chassis, most of the suspension and the axle in genuine capri to genuinely retain the cars identity. There is a points system with major component adding up, engine, gearbox, axle, suspension original chassis etc all have major points... I'm changing the engine and box so I need to keep the other stuff authentic capri.... of cause I am allowed to replace it with brand new items and that is what I will be doing.

I will be 4 linking the rear, as well as going coil over on the rear (used in the racing cars of the era)... very interested in speaking to Ade. I actually bought my car from the editor of retro ford magazine

[andygtt]

Tiger Tim said:

It's a great project but I feel slightly sad that the GTT isn't being worked on. That thing has so much potential to just sit in your garage Andy..

I feel the same, however in a strange way it was a relief to put it away and officially 'stop' working on it.

Its NOT dead, just on hold while I mess around a little with some other projects

[andygtt]

e21jason said:

Sent you Ade's details.

Have you tried ergen Motosport for getting the ecu flashed, and are you looking at the specialist components ECU.

Jason

thanks for that, yes I spoke to Ergen, they are were I got the price points from... the SC ecu seems to be the one to go for as 40 units have been sold for the V10 so far so its proven enough and comes with Map and they modify the stock M5 engine loom (which I have 2 of) to suit within the price.

[andygtt]

Thing in theory at any time VOSA could call the car to be inspected... so even if I do the changes piece meal and as such slip them under the net an MoT could put in the wrong thing and send warning signs to DVLA and trigger an inspection.

In practical terms that is rare and loads of cars get away with cut and shuts i.e. cutting the body off one car and grafting it on the chassis and running gear of another.... this is not what I want.

I want it 100% legit and legal, i will get engineers inspections etc and present it to VOSA if required.

Upgrading parts on the car made for the car are ok... I toyed with the idea of going independent suspension at the rear, however it puts me technically too close to being marginal on genuinely retaining the cars identity.

And it is possible to get the live axle working very effectively... ok it won't handle like the noble, but it defiantly will handle

[andygtt]

Major modifications in their eyes are things like cutting the front chassis away and replacing with new...but technically it is a bit of a grey area for sure which is why I must get an independent engineers report at the end of it and declare it all up front.

Fortunately what I plan to do will not remove any of the chassis, just strengthen and add to it and these modifications have been accepted on thousands of similar era cars including road legal race/rally cars etc... so the car does genuinely retain its capri roots just updated to make it more safe.

[andygtt]

To be honest I am interested in listening to all views on how to locate the solid axle, it has been suggested I go for the earlier escort Mk1 style uneven 4 link and I have thought about doing a Mumford although lots of people are suggesting I stick with a watts.

[andygtt]

gareth_r said:

andygtt said:

Think in theory at any time VOSA could call the car to be inspected... so even if I do the changes piecemeal and as such slip them under the net an MoT could put in the wrong thing and send warning signs to DVLA and trigger an inspection.

In practical terms that is rare and loads of cars get away with cut and shuts i.e. cutting the body off one car and grafting it on the chassis and running gear of another.... this is not what I want.

I want it 100% legit and legal. I will get engineer's inspections etc and present it to VOSA if required.

Upgrading parts on the car made for the car are OK... I toyed with the idea of going independent suspension at the rear, however it puts me technically too close to being marginal on genuinely retaining the cars identity.

And it is possible to get the live axle working very effectively... OK it won't handle like the Noble, but it defiantly will handle

You referred to the Capri's poor rear axle location, which, I assume, means that you intend to "5-link" it. The problem you may have is that the boxes required to locate the forward ends of the links could constitute major modifications to the monocoque that would trigger an IVA.

The same would apply to any bulkhead/tunnel modification required to fit the V10 and its gearbox.

OK so after me stating you were wrong it was actually me that was very wrong... seems a few years back (2010 ish) DVLA were talking about taking a very hard line on what they classified as significant modifications, it seems one of their clarification statements actually mentioned cutting the tunnel or bullhead to fit an engine therefore ANY car that had this done was not technically legal and if found out would have the V5 revoked and have to submit for an IVA and get a Q plate (if passed).

I have NO idea if it still stands that they are enforcing this rule, it could effect thousands of cars if they were found out... going to take advice on rear end but it has made me completely rethink my plan.

I have checked and the engine WILL fit without any modification at all to the Monocoque chassis... Im almost positive the 7 speed gearbox won't fit, meaning I will buy a 6 speed M3 box and see if that goes. One thing is clear I will have to lower the engine and box down in the chassis to get the clearance needed for the box and the 2 3inch exhaust systems.
Wont be a major issue as I am going to run a larger Diam wheel and tyre package which will raise the chassis, therefore if I lower the car 1inch over stock I will fill the arches very nicely, still have a low centre or gravity as the engine and box will still be low... also I won't be messing the geo up lowing the car.

So taking all this in mind, I am now thinking I might just start completely from scratch and build an all new chassis to my own spec using the roll cage and T45 I have on order, I can then use whatever suspension geometry and axle I want and potentially save myself a fortune... I can then take moulds of the roof (I have already started this) and use the X pack arches that I have.... I then IVA the car and go for a new registration like an Ultima.

Of cause the other option is to do the mods I had planned and accept IVA and Q plate, I hate this idea given the money I am planning to spend on the car.

So I now need to decide between the 2 options....
1. downgrade my spec and retain the original cars ID.
2. upgrade the spec and go for a brand new car.

[andygtt]

Ok to clear up this, 'I should build the other car' issue... on one hand I would agree, HOWEVER I have 3 very good reasons to put it on hold for a while.

1. the GTT requires well over 100k to finish to a level I want, it HAS to be better than the noble in all respects so Im not even going to entertain skimping... my budget for the capri is a lot less mainly as I won't be going mad with the engine.

2. I've built the Noble... I made moulds of the entire car, tuned the engine to over 700bhp and made it handle like it was on rails (yes much better than it did when stock), in some respects this is the car the GTT was going to become... I won't be selling the Noble therefore even when the GTT is finished so I kinda don't need the GTT yet.

However the biggest reason is:

3. My wife is VERY enthusiastic about building the capri, and in truth Im much more excited about doing this than my GTT at this stage... Mrs GTT helped a lot with the noble, even coming out to laminate the tub for 6hrs on Boxing day one year. She really does want to be involved and we are building this as a car she can and will drive.

[andygtt]

Sorry Mrs GTT is the sister, I was already friends with her sister and that's how we met... I'm also fortunate that she is much cleverer than me and a local GP so can fix the inevitable injuries, like the time I got a 1cm carbon shard in my nuckle lol

Regarding the Capri, I now have a plan.

Basically the Capri will be no more in DVLA's eyes as I had planned at least 3 mods that mean the monocoque is no longer standard....however I have new quarter panels, wings and roof, nearly a brand new entire body... I also have the complete M5.
So under DVLA rules I CAN make a new chassis for the M5 as it will be a donor car and after IVA I can apply for an age related plate based on the M5... The condition I must meet is that 2 major components from the donor must be used.... Well I'm using the engine and box, and will now use the diff... That's 3 components. I might also use the axles, steering etc etc as I no longer need to restrict myself to ford.
This is a better plan than my original so I am very pleased now, time for a celebratory meal out and some beers :-)

[andygtt]

I'm still reaching if the M5 suspension could work, the M5 is 50mm wider rear arch to arch than the Capri with the xpack, Im now going to retain the M5s diff so it would be ideal to keep the drive shafts etc.

I'm also toying with the idea of using new bmw m3 suspension as they are same width as the Capri and thus I would have good geometry and hopefully the m5 stuff would bolt up to the m3. I'm at the start of this research so nothing firm decided yet.

[andygtt]

My M5 has the plate M500 GTT... my noble is M700 GTT and I have M800 GTT on retention... all of them could be used on the car if I use the M5 as the donor for the project.

Ironically I had struggled to find a GTT plate for the capri's age, so this is another positive.... the only negative is that the emissions for the 'Capri' will be as per a 2005 car, but the M5 passes now anyhow so it won't be an issue at all.

[andygtt]

QuadCamCapri said:

andygtt said:

I'm still reaching if the M5 suspension could work, the M5 is 50mm wider rear arch to arch than the Capri with the xpack, Im now going to retain the M5s diff so it would be ideal to keep the drive shafts etc.

I'm also toying with the idea of using new bmw m3 suspension as they are same width as the Capri and thus I would have good geometry and hopefully the m5 stuff would bolt up to the m3. I'm at the start of this research so nothing firm decided yet.

Great project there, look forward to the build pics.
I'm taking a similar route with my race Capri, looking at the same sort of power but from a 5.0 V8 32V Cobra on 8x TB's (in and running just needs mapping now), also have 10x18" wheels with a BMW bolt pattern, as I have all the running gear front and rear from an E90 M3 to put on, didn't fancy a big heavy Mustang axle.
Will be modifying the rear subframe and welding to the shell, at the front I will make up some rose jointed tca's and compression struts to take the M3 legs.
The width of the M3 falls between the Capri and the M5, let me know if you need any dimensions.

Very interested in comparing notes, the fantastic thing about using M3 rather than Capri or M5 as there is a huge range of quality components such as brakes and coilovers that are available as well as wheels etc.

[andygtt]

It will be as much of a Capri as the zackspeed monsters.

So I got the car in the garage and spend a few hrs working on the stance, this meant cutting the arches out and fitting wheel spacers, then cutting the front springs (scrap anyhow) till it sat on the wheels how I wanted. I have decided these wheels really suit the Capri so they are being donated by my noble and I will have to buy another spare set... Guess it will up make sense to have the same wheels and offsets on both my toys :-)
These are 9x18 front and 10x18 rear.

I've been very surprised how solid the car is, even the inner arches were solid with no signs of rust.... There was rust amount the sunroof drain at the front sill and I have bought repair panels for this area so will fix it even if I'm not using this shell.
I also welded up the sunroof and started filling it to get it flat ready for me to take my moulds.







]

Edited by andygtt on Tuesday 27th March 12:30

[andygtt]

I don't want a Q purely as I want a personal plate and the Q plate your issued with stays with the car and can't be changed even for another Q plate.

So I'm at the stage were I need to decide on the stance of the car so I can finalise the arches.... For that I need the engine is no I can get the car as low as possible without the engine hitting the bonnet or hanging under the chassis. So I have removed the V10 from the M5 and it's now residing next to the Capri. Today's job will be to get it in the engine bay but it looks like the stance I currently have it at will work.

It is a big engine, but everything is packaged within the engines dimensions so it's a like a box with everything bolted on.

I have also decided that the car will be double wishbone suspension of my own design, I'm in the process of sourcing the uprights and designing the wishbones and pickups etc

Edited by andygtt on Tuesday 27th March 12:35

[andygtt]

It's tight, but it fits with all the auxiliaries, header loom all attached... No cutting yet but would to if it was staying here permanently.

As I suspected the engine height is the biggest issue, not going to be able to lower it much over stock to retain decent ground clearance under the sump and not interested in any bonnet mods as want it to look stock.

Edited by andygtt on Tuesday 27th March 12:39

[andygtt]

Vincefox said:

Bloody hell, it's in there though. How short of bonnet clearance is it?

In the pictures above the bonnet clears and closes with plenty of ground clearance... however its 1.5inches higher than I had hoped putting it similar ride height to a stock capri... not a major issue as Im running 2inch taller wheels so the car looks lower than stock regardless. I just wanted to drop it some more.

I have lowered the chassis to the ride height I hoped and dropped the engine to the level my chassis will be when I make it and Im around 1inch short of closing the bonnet.... the engine is hitting a bonnet cross member and Im making the bonnet in carbon so I could move the cross member and gain 20mm.

Here are pics of the difference in ride height, first is what I planned, 2nd is with the M5 engine in... around 40mm difference. In truth won't make a high amount of difference to the COG as the engine, drivetrain, chassis etc will all be same height regardless, its only the roll cage and glass so Im not stressed enough to mess with the body shape as thats one of the most important aspects of the car.

Edited by andygtt on Tuesday 27th March 12:40

[andygtt]

AyBee said:

Looks like it was meant to be there Makes a change from all these tiny engines where you open the bonnet and could fit about 4 engines underneath

Any chance of being able to shorten the sump? Have seen this done before on other engines.

I have the option to dry sump it and gain quite a bit... but I have to have a steering rack go through the sump at some point and the stock M5 uses 3 oil pumps and has a very effective oiling system so I won't gain much dynamically by upgrading.

There is enough work to do, I think the engine position will dictate the stance of the car.