IanH's 955hp V10 Audi RS6 - Another Car Diary!
Discussion
Hi all, I did a Car Diary for my previous C5 RS6 - Here - which I sold last year following a job change. Well skip forward to this summer and yet another change has meant I could rejoin the Audi family again, although to be fair I was also extremely tempted by the Jaguar XFR. I decided not to redo all my previous work with another C5 which left the newer C6 V10 RS6 as my car of choice. Initially I was after a Saloon but at the time of buying these all seemed to be commanding a price £6k-10k over that of the Avant which narrowed my choices slightly (subsequently those prices have narrowed). I decided that the only two colours I really liked were the Mugello Blue and the Daytona (same as my C5).
After a month of searching, a few test drives of "perfect in the Advert, Dog in real life" cars, one of which needed at least £3k-4K spending the second you bought it, I finally found the Daytona Avant I was looking for at a specialist VAG dealer in Colchester "George Kingsley" who were fantastic to deal with. The car had an up to date service history, new brake all round and looked in fantastic shape. However, when I asked about the car straight away they told me there was an issue with a faulty sensor causing an intermittent "Brake Pads Worn" message so, while I waited, they replaced the pads for me, temporarily curing it (it came back a few days later - see below).
One thing I had noticed during my various test drives was that even though the C6 was a much nicer car to be in than my C5 (better interior, electronics, comfort etc) and it was slightly faster it didn't actually "feel" as fast, as the turbos came on boost in a much more gentle, refined way rather than the brute force C5 method. So I'd already decided that which ever car I bought, if it was standard, I'd be sending it straight down to MRC for a Health Check and then a Stage 2 Re-Map which produces on average 720+hp and 730+ft/lbs, which should be fun!
So less than a week after I bought her I made my way up to Banbury from Kent so make sure I hadn't bought a Lemon! Happily everything came back healthy so it was on to the re-map. After a few hours of exhaust work removing the secondary Cats, adding some high flow Air Filters and a Gearbox Re-map she came off the rollers with 735hp and 740ft/lbs - right on spec!
The drive home was a very different experience to the drive there, trust me!
So, knowing that I go overboard this is what I've done -
Fitted 4 New Michelin MPSS Tyres - It had Michelin Primacys which maybe OK on a "normal" car and even coped well when the car was stock but with over 700hp their limits were very obvious.
Fitted New AP Racing front brake discs - The stock brakes are very poorly cooled in my opinion and retain far too much heat so, as I plan a few track days, I thought I'd look around for better replacements and they literally do not come any better than this without going Ceramic. As a bonus these also turned out to be cheaper to replace than stock after buying the initial set.
DS2500 Pads all around and ATE Super Blue fluid - As above really, stock was "OK" but I had some awful fade after a "spirited" drive which didn't fill me with confidence so the swap to AP Racing discs allowed me to use Nissan GTR pads (FRP3133H).
VW Phaeton vented brake backing plate - A direct swap for stock but these never arrived so I'm currently running without any backing plate at all for maximum cooling.
Update the Nav & 2G MMi - The Nav disc was a simple 5 minute job but the MMi has 3 CD's, takes over an hour and has a whole bunch of options that I've no idea about so I've left that for the time being.
Custom Exhaust - Exactly the same as my C5 I chopped the back boxes off and fitted a flanged straight though pipe on, allowing me the option of a stock exhaust Mon-Fri and a straight through (resonator only) at the weekends. It only take 10 minutes to swap and makes a much nicer sound, although it's far too loud to be used early in the mornings, just ask my very annoyed neighbour!
Charity Trackday - Once again I did the ASDA "On Your Marks" day where we hope to beat last years total of over £56K! The car came back with a few mechanical issues which were simply but expensive to cure.
Nurburg Ring in September for my birthday - Well, you got to really! Apparently you don't
My knackered propshaft from the ASDA trackday killed the Nurburg Ring trip for this year.
Silicon Intercooler pipes & clamps - One of mine constantly pops off the manifold so I replaced the jubilee clip with a proper Clamp and it's been great since. I also noticed the pipes were very soft so I'll probably replace those too (6 in total).
Gearbox service & H&R Anti-Roll Bars - Just to keep the gearbox smooth MRC recommend doing it every 20K miles on a tuned car so I did this straight after the trackday just to be safe. I also fitted H&R ARB's at the same time and they make the car feel a little stiffer too.
Here's a whole bunch of pics -
After a month of searching, a few test drives of "perfect in the Advert, Dog in real life" cars, one of which needed at least £3k-4K spending the second you bought it, I finally found the Daytona Avant I was looking for at a specialist VAG dealer in Colchester "George Kingsley" who were fantastic to deal with. The car had an up to date service history, new brake all round and looked in fantastic shape. However, when I asked about the car straight away they told me there was an issue with a faulty sensor causing an intermittent "Brake Pads Worn" message so, while I waited, they replaced the pads for me, temporarily curing it (it came back a few days later - see below).
One thing I had noticed during my various test drives was that even though the C6 was a much nicer car to be in than my C5 (better interior, electronics, comfort etc) and it was slightly faster it didn't actually "feel" as fast, as the turbos came on boost in a much more gentle, refined way rather than the brute force C5 method. So I'd already decided that which ever car I bought, if it was standard, I'd be sending it straight down to MRC for a Health Check and then a Stage 2 Re-Map which produces on average 720+hp and 730+ft/lbs, which should be fun!
So less than a week after I bought her I made my way up to Banbury from Kent so make sure I hadn't bought a Lemon! Happily everything came back healthy so it was on to the re-map. After a few hours of exhaust work removing the secondary Cats, adding some high flow Air Filters and a Gearbox Re-map she came off the rollers with 735hp and 740ft/lbs - right on spec!
The drive home was a very different experience to the drive there, trust me!
So, knowing that I go overboard this is what I've done -
Fitted 4 New Michelin MPSS Tyres - It had Michelin Primacys which maybe OK on a "normal" car and even coped well when the car was stock but with over 700hp their limits were very obvious.
Fitted New AP Racing front brake discs - The stock brakes are very poorly cooled in my opinion and retain far too much heat so, as I plan a few track days, I thought I'd look around for better replacements and they literally do not come any better than this without going Ceramic. As a bonus these also turned out to be cheaper to replace than stock after buying the initial set.
DS2500 Pads all around and ATE Super Blue fluid - As above really, stock was "OK" but I had some awful fade after a "spirited" drive which didn't fill me with confidence so the swap to AP Racing discs allowed me to use Nissan GTR pads (FRP3133H).
VW Phaeton vented brake backing plate - A direct swap for stock but these never arrived so I'm currently running without any backing plate at all for maximum cooling.
Update the Nav & 2G MMi - The Nav disc was a simple 5 minute job but the MMi has 3 CD's, takes over an hour and has a whole bunch of options that I've no idea about so I've left that for the time being.
Custom Exhaust - Exactly the same as my C5 I chopped the back boxes off and fitted a flanged straight though pipe on, allowing me the option of a stock exhaust Mon-Fri and a straight through (resonator only) at the weekends. It only take 10 minutes to swap and makes a much nicer sound, although it's far too loud to be used early in the mornings, just ask my very annoyed neighbour!
Charity Trackday - Once again I did the ASDA "On Your Marks" day where we hope to beat last years total of over £56K! The car came back with a few mechanical issues which were simply but expensive to cure.
Nurburg Ring in September for my birthday - Well, you got to really! Apparently you don't
My knackered propshaft from the ASDA trackday killed the Nurburg Ring trip for this year.Silicon Intercooler pipes & clamps - One of mine constantly pops off the manifold so I replaced the jubilee clip with a proper Clamp and it's been great since. I also noticed the pipes were very soft so I'll probably replace those too (6 in total).
Gearbox service & H&R Anti-Roll Bars - Just to keep the gearbox smooth MRC recommend doing it every 20K miles on a tuned car so I did this straight after the trackday just to be safe. I also fitted H&R ARB's at the same time and they make the car feel a little stiffer too.
Here's a whole bunch of pics -
Edited by IanH755 on Friday 11th September 16:32
Ecurie Ecossie - Here's a C5 vs C6 comparison I did for a guy on AudiSRS.
The next part is more tricky and long winded so here's the headlines - "For me" a Stage 2 C6 is better than my stage 1+ C5. However a stock C6, whilst it's a better car, doesn't "feel" as quick as a stock or mapped C5, even though it is actually faster.
Here's why -
Power - This is the big difference for me. Although there's very little difference from 0-100mph in any of these, mapped or not, maybe 1 second at best, the big difference is 100-200mph and the way the power is delivered (this was the make or break issue for me).
I think a stock C5 "feels" as quick as a stock C6, even though it is slower, due to the way modern cars are mapped for a gentle surge of torque over 2-3 seconds (which is better for the gearbox) rather than the more old school C5 which hits you like a sledge hammer for a brief second but slowly destroys the gearbox everytime you do it
A re-mapped C5 feels much MUCH better than a stock C6 even though, again, it's actually a little slower, although not by much.
A re-mapped C6 however is stupidly fast, utterly stupidly fast, and hilarious! It is much quicker than a re-mapped C5 from around 80mph+ where it just pulls away slowly at first til about 130mph then it leaves the C5 for dead.
I bought my C6 already knowing that I was getting it mapped, if I was keeping it stock I'd be very disappointed I think.
Noise - Both sound too quiet for me so I'm copying what I did on my C5 on my C6 and chopping the back-boxes. I do really like the little "fart" the C6 makes going up or down gears though!
Handling - A stock C6 handles as well as my Bilstein'd & H&R'd C5 ever did but you have to be careful with the weight transfer, these are heavier than a C5! C6's suspension is also infinitely more reliable than a C5's "has it failed today" DRC.
The C6 has 3 settings on it's suspension (Comfort, Dynamic, Sport) and Comfort is only good for normal A6 driving, not RS6 driving. Almost every RS6 owner leaves it in Dynamic which feels like my C5 and is great. Sport is far too hard for anywhere but a track.
Brakes - Both are about equal in performance but C6's need more careful heat management to avoid fade which I never had in the C5, even on the track but have already felt in the C6 on the road.
Gearbox - This is a known massive weak point on the C5 yet the C6 one seems indestructible, changes feel less "slushy" and the 6th gear is handy on the motorway.
Interior - Oh god a C6 wipes the floor with a C5 all day long, end of discussion. However it'll take you a week to figure out what the hell all the billion and 1 different settings are and do! The Avant has a great rail system in the back which works brilliantly. The steering wheel shape is better in the C5 (not a huge fan of the C6 square bottom) but the steering feel is better in the C6.
Exterior - The C6 is a much bigger car than the C5 and parking can be a hassle but the rear camera helps massively. The accessible engine bay is actually smaller than the C5 which makes working on it a nightmare and the bay retains a ton of heat (literally 6 hrs later it'll still be hot to the touch!)
Overall - As per my statement at the top, keep the C5 unless you're mapping the C6 because you'll just be disappointed in a stock C6 every time you floor it, even if it is a much better car! However, with a mapped C6 you too will be a grinning maniac with the best of both worlds!
The next part is more tricky and long winded so here's the headlines - "For me" a Stage 2 C6 is better than my stage 1+ C5. However a stock C6, whilst it's a better car, doesn't "feel" as quick as a stock or mapped C5, even though it is actually faster.
Here's why -
Power - This is the big difference for me. Although there's very little difference from 0-100mph in any of these, mapped or not, maybe 1 second at best, the big difference is 100-200mph and the way the power is delivered (this was the make or break issue for me).
I think a stock C5 "feels" as quick as a stock C6, even though it is slower, due to the way modern cars are mapped for a gentle surge of torque over 2-3 seconds (which is better for the gearbox) rather than the more old school C5 which hits you like a sledge hammer for a brief second but slowly destroys the gearbox everytime you do it
A re-mapped C5 feels much MUCH better than a stock C6 even though, again, it's actually a little slower, although not by much.
A re-mapped C6 however is stupidly fast, utterly stupidly fast, and hilarious! It is much quicker than a re-mapped C5 from around 80mph+ where it just pulls away slowly at first til about 130mph then it leaves the C5 for dead.
I bought my C6 already knowing that I was getting it mapped, if I was keeping it stock I'd be very disappointed I think.
Noise - Both sound too quiet for me so I'm copying what I did on my C5 on my C6 and chopping the back-boxes. I do really like the little "fart" the C6 makes going up or down gears though!
Handling - A stock C6 handles as well as my Bilstein'd & H&R'd C5 ever did but you have to be careful with the weight transfer, these are heavier than a C5! C6's suspension is also infinitely more reliable than a C5's "has it failed today" DRC.
The C6 has 3 settings on it's suspension (Comfort, Dynamic, Sport) and Comfort is only good for normal A6 driving, not RS6 driving. Almost every RS6 owner leaves it in Dynamic which feels like my C5 and is great. Sport is far too hard for anywhere but a track.
Brakes - Both are about equal in performance but C6's need more careful heat management to avoid fade which I never had in the C5, even on the track but have already felt in the C6 on the road.
Gearbox - This is a known massive weak point on the C5 yet the C6 one seems indestructible, changes feel less "slushy" and the 6th gear is handy on the motorway.
Interior - Oh god a C6 wipes the floor with a C5 all day long, end of discussion. However it'll take you a week to figure out what the hell all the billion and 1 different settings are and do! The Avant has a great rail system in the back which works brilliantly. The steering wheel shape is better in the C5 (not a huge fan of the C6 square bottom) but the steering feel is better in the C6.
Exterior - The C6 is a much bigger car than the C5 and parking can be a hassle but the rear camera helps massively. The accessible engine bay is actually smaller than the C5 which makes working on it a nightmare and the bay retains a ton of heat (literally 6 hrs later it'll still be hot to the touch!)
Overall - As per my statement at the top, keep the C5 unless you're mapping the C6 because you'll just be disappointed in a stock C6 every time you floor it, even if it is a much better car! However, with a mapped C6 you too will be a grinning maniac with the best of both worlds!
ChrisRS6 said:
When people used to ask me about mine and told them of the BHP etc....I could see them thinking "whatever"!!!......but I knew the truth.
Absolutely true story this, I went to Maidstone Exhaust Centre to look at having the boxes removed and got chatting the owner and told him the power and a mechanic 5ft behind me did the coughing "bullsh*t" thing twice! I didn't act like a mature, calm & sensible person and instead reacted very poorly with a choice comment of "Does Mr bullsh*t want to see the dyno, does Mr bullsh*t know *anything* about tuning a twin turbo'd 5L V10, well..................thought not, ****" and I thanked the owner for his time and left.
I'm a little more thick skinned now
Had an awesome day doing passenger rides at Bruntingthorpe as part of the "On Your Marks" charity event!
The car suspension is now falling apart, I got ran off the track by a Porsche Cayenne and collected a cone to the rear passenger door and I've now got a thumbnail sized stone chip in my windscreen but I had an absolute blast!
I think I may have buggered the car quite badly though.
1. I think the rear diff is shot as you get a very low frequency rapid thumping from the rear when you boot it.
2. The steering rack or suspension is making a mechanical knocking sound which can be felt through the wheel and gets louder with a left turn and quieter on a right but past 30' of turn in either direction it's silent.
3. The rear left brake stone guard came loose and is resting on the disc making a lovely grinding noise.
4. The brakes all round got so hot 3 tyres have lost all or some of the balance weights as the glue failed so the wheels are vibrating.
5. The stone Chip!
6. The cone mark on the left rear passenger door (which has already been polished out) has left a very small scratch.
7. The stupid intake manifold pipe popped off twice and requires a proper solution.
However, the positives were
1. The AP Racing Discs/DS2500/ATE SuperBlue combo was amazing, 50+ 170mph to 50mph stops without a single fade. the DS2500's smoke a bit for the first 3-4 stops but settled down afterwards.
2. The engine is perfect and surprised soooo many people.
3. I'm now watching back all the passenger reactions and seeing shocked faces and things that I miss during the drive.
After a bit of MRC TLC I may consider another one next year
The car suspension is now falling apart, I got ran off the track by a Porsche Cayenne and collected a cone to the rear passenger door and I've now got a thumbnail sized stone chip in my windscreen but I had an absolute blast!
I think I may have buggered the car quite badly though.
1. I think the rear diff is shot as you get a very low frequency rapid thumping from the rear when you boot it.
2. The steering rack or suspension is making a mechanical knocking sound which can be felt through the wheel and gets louder with a left turn and quieter on a right but past 30' of turn in either direction it's silent.
3. The rear left brake stone guard came loose and is resting on the disc making a lovely grinding noise.
4. The brakes all round got so hot 3 tyres have lost all or some of the balance weights as the glue failed so the wheels are vibrating.
5. The stone Chip!
6. The cone mark on the left rear passenger door (which has already been polished out) has left a very small scratch.
7. The stupid intake manifold pipe popped off twice and requires a proper solution.
However, the positives were
1. The AP Racing Discs/DS2500/ATE SuperBlue combo was amazing, 50+ 170mph to 50mph stops without a single fade. the DS2500's smoke a bit for the first 3-4 stops but settled down afterwards.
2. The engine is perfect and surprised soooo many people.
3. I'm now watching back all the passenger reactions and seeing shocked faces and things that I miss during the drive.
After a bit of MRC TLC I may consider another one next year
Fixed most of the issues today -
1. Centre Propshaft bearing has died, £1400 to replace the whole propshaft as the bearing is part of it and can't be replaced on it's own
2. The left front wheel nuts had started to come loose
and they'd been checked at lunch too!
3. Removed the rubbing stone guard.
4. Wheels rebalanced and alignment checked.
5. Needs to be worse before insurance will replace the windscreen.
6. Polished out.
7. New clamp on order!
1. Centre Propshaft bearing has died, £1400 to replace the whole propshaft as the bearing is part of it and can't be replaced on it's own
2. The left front wheel nuts had started to come loose
and they'd been checked at lunch too!3. Removed the rubbing stone guard.
4. Wheels rebalanced and alignment checked.
5. Needs to be worse before insurance will replace the windscreen.
6. Polished out.
7. New clamp on order!
Here's my Passenger Reaction Video from the On Your Marks charity day I did last weekend at Bruntingthorpe. Be warned, with 740hp to play, with it contains a lot of surprised swearing so NSFW -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1oYwZvHA9c
JamesGT/MrAverage - Thanks for the advice, if the warranty company decide not to cover it it's something I'll definitely be looking at and have a company lined up - JW Engineering in Kent - for the job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1oYwZvHA9c
JamesGT/MrAverage - Thanks for the advice, if the warranty company decide not to cover it it's something I'll definitely be looking at and have a company lined up - JW Engineering in Kent - for the job.
Made it very "very" quiet
After chopping the back-boxes off, my car was a bit too loud (TBH) so I got a whole bunch of noise complaints to my missus from a neighbour who rents from the same landlord (which is why I had to do something) so I ended up refitting the stock back-boxes. You can barely hear it now
I used a dB meter to get some readings from her house to the car which is parked 20m away and I'm reading 30dB with the engine off, 51dB with it running, 65dB walking on the gravel to get to my car and 75dB when a car drives past on the road next to her house. If she complains now she'll be told "No".
The car "feels" smoother but that's just a placebo after having it quite loud/vibratey before and in no way makes up for the loss of theatre caused by the new quietness
Ah well, at least tomorrow is MRC day so she'll be back up and running at 100% after my trackday woes and, depending on a conversation I plan to have with Doug, there maybe some semi-cheeky plans around xmas
After chopping the back-boxes off, my car was a bit too loud (TBH) so I got a whole bunch of noise complaints to my missus from a neighbour who rents from the same landlord (which is why I had to do something) so I ended up refitting the stock back-boxes. You can barely hear it now
I used a dB meter to get some readings from her house to the car which is parked 20m away and I'm reading 30dB with the engine off, 51dB with it running, 65dB walking on the gravel to get to my car and 75dB when a car drives past on the road next to her house. If she complains now she'll be told "No".
The car "feels" smoother but that's just a placebo after having it quite loud/vibratey before and in no way makes up for the loss of theatre caused by the new quietness
Ah well, at least tomorrow is MRC day so she'll be back up and running at 100% after my trackday woes and, depending on a conversation I plan to have with Doug, there maybe some semi-cheeky plans around xmas
I genuinely prefer doing passenger trips to just driving fast myself as I know what the car can do but it's always fun surprising people!
Back from a good/bad/ugly day at MRC -
Good - Got the Propshaft replaced under warranty, had a gearbox service, replaced the rear pads with Ferodo DS2500's and got some lovely H&R anti-roll bars fitted.
Bad - My plans for 800+hp took a bit of a twist when I found out that the 30p oil-pump seal is leaking, although not that badly. The warranty assessor had a look while he checked out the propshaft but we're not sure if the warranty company will pay for an engine drop to fix it (£3k+), and the cost of doing it myself stops my Race-Cat downpipes & exhaust plan.
However, if they do pay for the engine drop then there's the possibility of replacement turbos and 850hp
Ugly - the 4hr trip home doing less than 20mph from the M40 to the M20. At one point even the stereo in the RS couldn't resist taking the mick!
Back from a good/bad/ugly day at MRC -
Good - Got the Propshaft replaced under warranty, had a gearbox service, replaced the rear pads with Ferodo DS2500's and got some lovely H&R anti-roll bars fitted.
Bad - My plans for 800+hp took a bit of a twist when I found out that the 30p oil-pump seal is leaking, although not that badly. The warranty assessor had a look while he checked out the propshaft but we're not sure if the warranty company will pay for an engine drop to fix it (£3k+), and the cost of doing it myself stops my Race-Cat downpipes & exhaust plan.
However, if they do pay for the engine drop then there's the possibility of replacement turbos and 850hp
Ugly - the 4hr trip home doing less than 20mph from the M40 to the M20. At one point even the stereo in the RS couldn't resist taking the mick!
Edited by IanH755 on Friday 21st August 19:27
TheAngryDog - Yeah, thats the next plan, a full 3in system with a bypass valve but I'm trying to find a valve that is reliable (not a Chinese eBay special). The pain is that the car "only" needs to be quiet for 1-2 minutes in a morning, the rest of the time it can be as loud as it wants.
Chris - I could either go 2/3rd the full price and have it done with the engine still fitted or pay more but be able to get more work done once the engine is out like you did. It's all going to come down to the decision from the warranty company.
Chris - I could either go 2/3rd the full price and have it done with the engine still fitted or pay more but be able to get more work done once the engine is out like you did. It's all going to come down to the decision from the warranty company.
Ved - Pretty good really, it's almost like an A6 really. There's the 30p oil pump seal and "clicking" front bearings but thats it for known issues. It's much better for reliability than my older C5 was thats for sure
Egor110 - The old fellas quite a chatterbox after the short clip I used ends, he mentions how nice it was to see the scenery fly by so quickly
Egor110 - The old fellas quite a chatterbox after the short clip I used ends, he mentions how nice it was to see the scenery fly by so quickly
A quick vid of my custom exhaust. Starts with a few low speed runs and then some full throttle and tunnel runs -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOCnJ_eYveE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOCnJ_eYveE
I never got around to it and sold the CD's instead. I'm at version 5140 and it would take about 30-60 minutes to upgrade the firmware to 5570 and I didn't have a battery charger so I'd have to leave the car idling instead which isn't good for the engine.
It also didn't help that I started the upgrade once just to see how to do it and there was dozens of changeable Yes/No selections which you could make and I had no idea if they were correct (getting it wrong can knacker the car), although I could have probably just left everything at default to be fair.
It also didn't help that I started the upgrade once just to see how to do it and there was dozens of changeable Yes/No selections which you could make and I had no idea if they were correct (getting it wrong can knacker the car), although I could have probably just left everything at default to be fair.
Hi Ian, if you're happy with stock you'll be ecstatic with a stage 2 ECU and gearbox map It's not just the extra power but the way the power is delivered which makes it so much more exciting. If you can find someone nearby with one who'll take you for a test drive you can see what the potential is!
It's not just the extra power but the way the power is delivered which makes it so much more exciting. If you can find someone nearby with one who'll take you for a test drive you can see what the potential is!Ian - I'm going to the Sunday Service at Brands on the 20th if you fancy a mini-Daytona meet? When I bought mine I was really after the Saloon but at the time they were all £7k-10k more than an identical Avant but, typically, a month after I bought mine they started appearing for <£30K again!
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