Mondeo ST200 Limited - most painful purchase ever
Discussion
So for anyone who followed my rot box thread, you'll already be aware of some of the pain that I've had with this car since I got it...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=156...
So, to start the story at the beginning, I owned a MK2 Ghia X V6 in 2007 and look back on it fondly as one of the best cars I've ever owne. I've no idea why, I just really, really liked it.
So, with the 200 being an itch that I never managed to scratch I finally took the plunge on a two owner, low miles example which had sat on Gumtree for ages.
All was well, although I spotted that the alternator and A/C weren't working, and there was a nasty judder which I thought was a gearbox mount. Other than that, drove her home with no issues, a very, very happy boy.
Soon after that, my problems started.
I put her into a good garage who spent some time checking her out and diagnosed a litany of problems, the worst of which were rot in the sills and floorpan. They also replaced the alternator and gearbox mount.
Disheartened, I turned to Pistonheads for advice and promptly ignored everyone who told me to get rid, and ploughed on anyway with getting her fixed once I found someone who could do it with reasonable economic restraint.
At this stage the list of broken stuff was growing by the day and included-
1) Gearbox mount - Fixed!
2) A/C
3) Alternator - Supposedly fixed but was still getting flickering lights
4) Drop links
5) Balljoints
6) CV Joint and driveshaft
7) Loss of power when hot and under load
8) Clutch starting to slip
Plus, this delightful looking rot-
Whilst waiting to put it in there, I discovered a severe water leak in the passenger footwell, caused by a shoelace that the last owner had ran through the bulkhead to pull a cable. This had acted like a straw and allowed water to track into the carpet. Utterly ruining the floor underneath. f
k.
So with the first garage visit now expanded to include welding up the hole in the floor, I pressed ahead with the mini restoration.
Then, a few days before she was due in the garage, the CV joint finally let go, so I had to be towed in by the RAC. Double fk.
Anyway, the day came, and she went in for the raft of work. Welding was done, new clutch, new driveshaft, as well as a new coil, HT leads and Sparks to try to cure the power loss.
The rest of the story gets very long and painful, but over the course of the next few months I ended up getting another new alternator which still didn't cure the flicker, and the car developed a wheel wobble on the motorway. It also developed a rear suspension clonk and two slow punctures.
Ended up, after a LOT of dicking about, discovering that the coil pack and HT leads fitted by the second garage were terrible quality, the second alternator was a nasty Euro Car Parts pattern part which was outputting lots of AC, and the loss of power was no better.
Having sank so much money in, I bit the bullet and bought a load of new parts from Ford (big shout out to Lifestyle Ford in Horsham who did me some stock orders with decent discounts!
)
After the raft of new-
1) Alternator X3
2) HT Leads
3) Coil Pack
4) Sparks
5) Rear Trailing Arm bushes
6) A/C Receiver Dryer
7) A/C Evaporator
8) Relocation of the IMRC to under the battery tray to avoid heat soak
9) Four new Continental tyres
10) New N/S/F Wheel bearing
11) New discs and pads
(The list of broken stuff had continued to grow over the months)
I got the car back and it was finally working. Or so I thought.
Quickly turned out that the wobble wasn't gone, so after more investigation it turned out that the garage who fitted the driveshaft had somehow warped the wheel hub when doing it (too much heat I guess!) I ended up having to get a new hub from Ford, and finally thought it was fixed.
Good news on collection was that the wobble was gone, but the A/C system had blown a hose. The supplying garage suggested a new hose (£306 from Ford, fk that!) but at this point, some £3-£4K down in repairs I decided that it's time with me was almost at an end.
I gave one mobile guy a call and he said he may be able to fix the hose, he's just been out today and it turns out that a tiny spring had gone, he happens to have the last remaining stock in the UK (Ford now only supply as part of the £306 hose) so £100 later and my A/C is back up and running. (Thanks Simon at National Air Con! )
Anyway, I'm now utterly exhausted with it, the car has driven me to the brink of a mental breakdown with it's constant string of problems. That said, as of 11:30am today it is almost entirely working (apart from the CD player, that broke earlier this week).
So, I'll keep this thread updated with the saga as it continues, unfortunately it really is on borrowed time, as any more problems beyond basic consumables and I think it's going to go. My patience is utterly exhausted.
So, what's it like?
Finally I can talk about the actual car now that I have the drama out of the way.
I love it. The engine is so smooth, the noise from the aftermarket exhaust is lovely, it's so easy to drive, it turns heads occasionally (yes really!), I love the look of it, the colour, the lines. Everything.
It's really hard to actually put into words what it is that I like about the car, but it just feels right. I guess that when you consider it now stands me close to £6K there would have to be something about it which I liked!
I'll keep this thread updated, although I really hope it becomes less painful from here on in....
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=156...
So, to start the story at the beginning, I owned a MK2 Ghia X V6 in 2007 and look back on it fondly as one of the best cars I've ever owne. I've no idea why, I just really, really liked it.
So, with the 200 being an itch that I never managed to scratch I finally took the plunge on a two owner, low miles example which had sat on Gumtree for ages.
All was well, although I spotted that the alternator and A/C weren't working, and there was a nasty judder which I thought was a gearbox mount. Other than that, drove her home with no issues, a very, very happy boy.
Soon after that, my problems started.
I put her into a good garage who spent some time checking her out and diagnosed a litany of problems, the worst of which were rot in the sills and floorpan. They also replaced the alternator and gearbox mount.
Disheartened, I turned to Pistonheads for advice and promptly ignored everyone who told me to get rid, and ploughed on anyway with getting her fixed once I found someone who could do it with reasonable economic restraint.
At this stage the list of broken stuff was growing by the day and included-
1) Gearbox mount - Fixed!
2) A/C
3) Alternator - Supposedly fixed but was still getting flickering lights
4) Drop links
5) Balljoints
6) CV Joint and driveshaft
7) Loss of power when hot and under load
8) Clutch starting to slip
Plus, this delightful looking rot-
Whilst waiting to put it in there, I discovered a severe water leak in the passenger footwell, caused by a shoelace that the last owner had ran through the bulkhead to pull a cable. This had acted like a straw and allowed water to track into the carpet. Utterly ruining the floor underneath. f
k.So with the first garage visit now expanded to include welding up the hole in the floor, I pressed ahead with the mini restoration.
Then, a few days before she was due in the garage, the CV joint finally let go, so I had to be towed in by the RAC. Double f
k.Anyway, the day came, and she went in for the raft of work. Welding was done, new clutch, new driveshaft, as well as a new coil, HT leads and Sparks to try to cure the power loss.
The rest of the story gets very long and painful, but over the course of the next few months I ended up getting another new alternator which still didn't cure the flicker, and the car developed a wheel wobble on the motorway. It also developed a rear suspension clonk and two slow punctures.
Ended up, after a LOT of dicking about, discovering that the coil pack and HT leads fitted by the second garage were terrible quality, the second alternator was a nasty Euro Car Parts pattern part which was outputting lots of AC, and the loss of power was no better.
Having sank so much money in, I bit the bullet and bought a load of new parts from Ford (big shout out to Lifestyle Ford in Horsham who did me some stock orders with decent discounts!
)After the raft of new-
1) Alternator X3
2) HT Leads
3) Coil Pack
4) Sparks
5) Rear Trailing Arm bushes
6) A/C Receiver Dryer
7) A/C Evaporator
8) Relocation of the IMRC to under the battery tray to avoid heat soak
9) Four new Continental tyres
10) New N/S/F Wheel bearing
11) New discs and pads
(The list of broken stuff had continued to grow over the months)
I got the car back and it was finally working. Or so I thought.
Quickly turned out that the wobble wasn't gone, so after more investigation it turned out that the garage who fitted the driveshaft had somehow warped the wheel hub when doing it (too much heat I guess!) I ended up having to get a new hub from Ford, and finally thought it was fixed.
Good news on collection was that the wobble was gone, but the A/C system had blown a hose. The supplying garage suggested a new hose (£306 from Ford, f
k that!) but at this point, some £3-£4K down in repairs I decided that it's time with me was almost at an end.I gave one mobile guy a call and he said he may be able to fix the hose, he's just been out today and it turns out that a tiny spring had gone, he happens to have the last remaining stock in the UK (Ford now only supply as part of the £306 hose) so £100 later and my A/C is back up and running. (Thanks Simon at National Air Con!
)Anyway, I'm now utterly exhausted with it, the car has driven me to the brink of a mental breakdown with it's constant string of problems. That said, as of 11:30am today it is almost entirely working (apart from the CD player, that broke earlier this week).
So, I'll keep this thread updated with the saga as it continues, unfortunately it really is on borrowed time, as any more problems beyond basic consumables and I think it's going to go. My patience is utterly exhausted.
So, what's it like?
Finally I can talk about the actual car now that I have the drama out of the way.
I love it. The engine is so smooth, the noise from the aftermarket exhaust is lovely, it's so easy to drive, it turns heads occasionally (yes really!), I love the look of it, the colour, the lines. Everything.
It's really hard to actually put into words what it is that I like about the car, but it just feels right. I guess that when you consider it now stands me close to £6K there would have to be something about it which I liked!
I'll keep this thread updated, although I really hope it becomes less painful from here on in....
Thanks for all the positive comments guys, it almost makes the whole ordeal seem worthwhile! 
I did a check the other day and I think there are only a few hundred ST's left, and probably well under 100 saloons, so I think it probably is close to being one of the best left on the road. Having looked at the MOT advisories on the one in the Ford Heritage collection, mine would seem to have a similar list of advisories and has much lower miles!
I'm under no illusions that this will continue to be a fraught ownership experience but I have to try and get my money's worth now!
I think you may have nailed why it has that "right" feeling actually, it feels a lot more connected than any modern car, and the lack of nastiness like EPAS just helps with that connected feeling
I know that at the moment there is underseal clagged everywhere that the welding has been done so hopefully this will hold the win worm at bay until I do further work in the future.
The frustrating thing is that this work wouldn't be needed if it hadn't been left to flood inside for 3 years, and no one had jacked it up onto the sills and ruined the original underseal.
I did a check the other day and I think there are only a few hundred ST's left, and probably well under 100 saloons, so I think it probably is close to being one of the best left on the road. Having looked at the MOT advisories on the one in the Ford Heritage collection, mine would seem to have a similar list of advisories and has much lower miles!
I'm under no illusions that this will continue to be a fraught ownership experience but I have to try and get my money's worth now!
bigbob77 said:
Perfect driving position, loads of feel through the controls, lovely induction sound from the V6 (especially when the IMRC kicks in) and absolutely none of the electronic numbness that newer cars have... I also remember my Mk2 Mondeos as the best cars I've owned
Your ST200 looks fantastic. I'd love one, but I don't think I could spend that much on it...
Thanks! Your ST200 looks fantastic. I'd love one, but I don't think I could spend that much on it...
I think you may have nailed why it has that "right" feeling actually, it feels a lot more connected than any modern car, and the lack of nastiness like EPAS just helps with that connected feeling mrtwisty said:
How does it drive compared to your other mk3? My sister had a boggo mk3 2.0 petrol many moons ago and I was always surprised how well it behaved when she chucked it through the bends - certainly far better than the similar era Passat's/Vectra's etc.
That's a tough question actually, the MK3 feels significantly more modern (not having it's roots in 1992 I guess it should do!) In terms of handling, I'd say the ST is a little better on the open road, albeit very much harsher over bumps, whilst the MK3 probably has the edge on sharp cornering on the slower roads as it's a bit lighter up front. I also suspect I need to factor in some new wishbones for the ST within the next year or two.bungz said:
Wow I thought this was tin cans already.
Respect for sticking with it.
How is the quality of the welding and what do you plan to do to keep it at bay?
Underseal it or store it in a swimming pool full of dry rice ?
Looks great
It came very close!! I've no idea about the welding quality as I haven't pulled the carpet back up to look at it, or been underneath. However, it was MOT'd and they didn't give any advisories for the standard of the welds. They did give a couple about other parts of the sills though so I fully expect to have to have the sills replaced properly within the next year, I'll do the arches at the same time. I can't face it at the moment.Respect for sticking with it.
How is the quality of the welding and what do you plan to do to keep it at bay?
Underseal it or store it in a swimming pool full of dry rice ?
Looks great
I know that at the moment there is underseal clagged everywhere that the welding has been done so hopefully this will hold the win worm at bay until I do further work in the future.
The frustrating thing is that this work wouldn't be needed if it hadn't been left to flood inside for 3 years, and no one had jacked it up onto the sills and ruined the original underseal.
shedweller said:
Well done for persevering with it,not sure I would've tolerated it myself. I have yet to tackle the flickering lights issue but will have to soon.
Are you familiar with the Technical Bulletin about this issue? It may be your alternator of course (as mine was even with two new alternators from Euro Car Parts, had to get one from Ford in the end), but if you're lucky it may be affected by the TSB and just need an additional wire...shedweller said:
Yes I had heard of adding the (earth?) wire to the existing alternator and I will probably do that, but whilst there I will do the alternator as well.
It started with just dimming of headlights as per our previous Mk2 (which didn’t get worse) but over the last few weeks it has progressed to the battery light coming on at 5k with hesitancy/miss under load from 5k up and from 4k with lights on.
Here she is as of this morning, 113k with the full leather recaros, 4 previous keepers who clearly looked after it, As its had some really high quality welding in the past…. Non crusty anywhere except on one arch which I will get done. - excuse the boxes but were moving out of our st rental house in 3days.
Wheels are getting a long overdue refurb next week.
That's beautiful!It started with just dimming of headlights as per our previous Mk2 (which didn’t get worse) but over the last few weeks it has progressed to the battery light coming on at 5k with hesitancy/miss under load from 5k up and from 4k with lights on.
Here she is as of this morning, 113k with the full leather recaros, 4 previous keepers who clearly looked after it, As its had some really high quality welding in the past…. Non crusty anywhere except on one arch which I will get done. - excuse the boxes but were moving out of our s
t rental house in 3days.Wheels are getting a long overdue refurb next week.
The only piece of advice I can give you then is do NOT buy your alternator from ECP, get it from Ford. If you ask them to do a stock order (takes longer) they should be able to do a worthwhile discount. The first two alternators from ECP still generated flicker, the third and final one from Ford was perfect, and I don't even have the extra wire. It's not a job that you'll want to do twice...
And there goes the crankshaft rear oil seal. Gearbox out and subframe drop required to do the job. fk.
It's treading on very, very thin ice. In fact were it not for a helpful cash donation from the parents then it was going to be moved on. Absolutely fking sick.
Problem is, I can't find anything to replace it with that I actually want.
k.It's treading on very, very thin ice. In fact were it not for a helpful cash donation from the parents then it was going to be moved on. Absolutely f
king sick.Problem is, I can't find anything to replace it with that I actually want.
It continues to live on, just.
I've got the new oil seal, and I'm doing both driveshafts/CV's whilst it's in bits, simply because I kept hearing occasional clicking near full lock after the last driveshaft replacement. Not sure whether the other one is on it's way, or whether the replacement was simply bad. Easier to replace both at zero labour charge than spend time trying to trace it.
Also going to replace the track rods because that has improved steering vibration in other cars I've had.
It's gradually being rebuilt, this round of surgery is scheduled to commence on Friday...
I've got the new oil seal, and I'm doing both driveshafts/CV's whilst it's in bits, simply because I kept hearing occasional clicking near full lock after the last driveshaft replacement. Not sure whether the other one is on it's way, or whether the replacement was simply bad. Easier to replace both at zero labour charge than spend time trying to trace it.
Also going to replace the track rods because that has improved steering vibration in other cars I've had.
It's gradually being rebuilt, this round of surgery is scheduled to commence on Friday...
bigbob77 said:
Sorry it's being such a PITA
Once you've got those bits sorted, it's only a matter of days until the next thing goes. Just get rid. I'll give you £200 for it after you fix the broken bits and you can go get something reliable.
Hmm, that's a kind offer Once you've got those bits sorted, it's only a matter of days until the next thing goes. Just get rid. I'll give you £200 for it after you fix the broken bits and you can go get something reliable.
The only thing that changed my mind was when someone messaged me to come and view it, my immediate reaction was very much along the lines of "I'm not giving you the benefit of all my hard work and expense". It made me realise it needs another chance.
I also think it has an intermittent IMRC fault, relocating it away from the engine helped but hasn't fully sorted it. I just tried calling an expert that I've used before in Sunderland, but he's now retired. So may end up just sourcing a new one from the USA where they appear to be a little cheaper...
bigbob77 said:
Don't waste money on a new one! I fixed mine in 10 minutes with a cheap Maplins solder kit and a 50p capacitor from eBay.
There was an excellent guide on a Mondeo forum back then, 2008ish, not sure if it's still kicking about. Try and find it though... Seriously easy job! There's just a single capacitor to replace on the circuit board.
Also, that was the day I learned that if you slip and stab your hand with a hot solder iron tip, the hole won't bleed because it cauterises at the same time as stabbing you!
Ewww, nasty.There was an excellent guide on a Mondeo forum back then, 2008ish, not sure if it's still kicking about. Try and find it though... Seriously easy job! There's just a single capacitor to replace on the circuit board.
Also, that was the day I learned that if you slip and stab your hand with a hot solder iron tip, the hole won't bleed because it cauterises at the same time as stabbing you!
As it happens my brother is excellent with his soldering so I could definitely get him to do it, the problem will be getting it out at home, it's now tucked out of the way under the battery tray. I guess this will necessitate jacking it up.
Given how awkward it all looks I think the best we could hope for would be to somehow get it out from under there and perhaps just work on it in situ to save disconnecting the actuator wire?
The walkthrough is still available online though
dme123 said:
It's worth moving it to a different mounting place to stop it getting cooked again, it's a really piss poor location to put it.
Already done, problem is I think it's too late. I have the same symptoms as those on the wiki guide ("power comes and goes in stutters, like you're driving through puddles"), no doubt to be eventually followed with complete failure.Urgh.
So the oil seal turned out to be a leaking slave cylinder (despite the fact it's <2K miles old and was a Ford part).
Thankfully that was fixed and the clutch survived, got it back on Monday.
Today the alternator appears to have failed. Again.
The garage have suggested it may be a bad earth, but if so I've no idea how it would come and go throughout the rev range. Anyway, it's going back in tomorrow.
To say I'm getting fed up of this is a bit of an understatement.
So the oil seal turned out to be a leaking slave cylinder (despite the fact it's <2K miles old and was a Ford part).
Thankfully that was fixed and the clutch survived, got it back on Monday.
Today the alternator appears to have failed. Again.
The garage have suggested it may be a bad earth, but if so I've no idea how it would come and go throughout the rev range. Anyway, it's going back in tomorrow.
To say I'm getting fed up of this is a bit of an understatement.
Holy thread resurrection!
I'm afraid this car didn't stay with me, I can't remember the whole story as to what else went wrong but basically I never got the hesitation fixed and the car kept upsetting me with various faults. I spent a fortune (many times more than I paid for the car) trying to fix (and in some cases, fix them again) before I cut my losses and flogged it on ebay with all work and remaining problems declared.
I now drive a Volvo and have never felt more relaxed, or less stressed about my motoring.
I'm afraid this car didn't stay with me, I can't remember the whole story as to what else went wrong but basically I never got the hesitation fixed and the car kept upsetting me with various faults. I spent a fortune (many times more than I paid for the car) trying to fix (and in some cases, fix them again) before I cut my losses and flogged it on ebay with all work and remaining problems declared.
I now drive a Volvo and have never felt more relaxed, or less stressed about my motoring.
e30m3Mark said:
Now my interest has been stirred, do you recall the reg' number?
I do, but won't pop it up too publicly in case a future owner ends up googling it and worrying they've bought a lemon! Do you think you may know the car? PM me if you like and I'll share that way It went up north somewhere but can't recall where, I do remember the guy had got stuck in traffic and didn't get here until about 10pm and then had a massive drive home to do in it. Shortly after he got it the alternator that I'd bought directly from Ford failed with just about 1K miles on it, so ended up acting as go between to try and get that through on warranty (successfully actually)
e30m3Mark said:
No, I was just being nosey so fair play for keeping reg' close to your chest.
Weird coincidence though, at 3am today I dropped my final fare at a house in Truro and the chap said ''drop me next to my ST220''. It was dark obviously, but sure enough there was a (slightly tired looking) blue Mondeo. The guy then asked ''You do know how special the ST is?''. He was clearly very proud.
So was I at the time Weird coincidence though, at 3am today I dropped my final fare at a house in Truro and the chap said ''drop me next to my ST220''. It was dark obviously, but sure enough there was a (slightly tired looking) blue Mondeo. The guy then asked ''You do know how special the ST is?''. He was clearly very proud.
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