GTM Libra B18C
Discussion
Bought this at the end of Feb - My second GTM Libra, My first one (3 pics below) met an unfortunate end when someone tried to mate a Nissan Almera with it.
This is how I got it, in quite a sorry state, had been used daily since 2007 and not really looked after/protected properly. As a result lots of rust particularly on the rear wishbones/mounts which had almost collapsed. Luckily new ones came with the car.
Has undergone a fairly extensive rebuild, all wishbones, engine cradle etc. off and refurbished, new suspension, new radiator and plumbing. Came to me with a B16A2 Civic Sir engine, I built a B18C Integra Type R motor for it, ECU socketed and chipped etc. Made new exhaust, built myself a C/R LSD box etc.
Specs wise it is somewhere around 750-800KG & 200BHP, so power to weight a healthy 250/ton (approx.), the B series Honda package is slightly heavier than the rover K series most have but considerably more powerful and the most rev happy 4 stroke car engine I've experienced. I believe the Type R variant is very well balanced as standard... Rev limit is 8600 I think, but can be upped to 9K on standard internals with no worries. The gearbox is brilliant too, being the 4.78FD LSD version and with the closer 4th from my old S4C box it pulls from nothing in any gear.
Still some bits to do but this is how it stands currently, from the few miles I've done so far I think it's a fantastic engine for this kind of car, revs brilliantly and VTEC is addictive
Full thread of rebuild is in the kitcar section here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
This is how I got it, in quite a sorry state, had been used daily since 2007 and not really looked after/protected properly. As a result lots of rust particularly on the rear wishbones/mounts which had almost collapsed. Luckily new ones came with the car.
Has undergone a fairly extensive rebuild, all wishbones, engine cradle etc. off and refurbished, new suspension, new radiator and plumbing. Came to me with a B16A2 Civic Sir engine, I built a B18C Integra Type R motor for it, ECU socketed and chipped etc. Made new exhaust, built myself a C/R LSD box etc.
Specs wise it is somewhere around 750-800KG & 200BHP, so power to weight a healthy 250/ton (approx.), the B series Honda package is slightly heavier than the rover K series most have but considerably more powerful and the most rev happy 4 stroke car engine I've experienced. I believe the Type R variant is very well balanced as standard... Rev limit is 8600 I think, but can be upped to 9K on standard internals with no worries. The gearbox is brilliant too, being the 4.78FD LSD version and with the closer 4th from my old S4C box it pulls from nothing in any gear.
Still some bits to do but this is how it stands currently, from the few miles I've done so far I think it's a fantastic engine for this kind of car, revs brilliantly and VTEC is addictive
Full thread of rebuild is in the kitcar section here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 17th June 09:16
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 17th June 09:18
Edited by Yazza54 on Tuesday 27th September 12:52
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 21st October 10:29
thatguy11 said:
I will admit to being drawn to the thread title because I had no idea what the hell it was! Fantastic little thing, can't believe i'd never heard of them. Shame about your last one though
Cheers, yeah they've been around a while now but still very rare, don't think I've ever seen anyone else's on the road other than at shows etc. I agree, I find mine perfectly comfortable and I'm about 6ft2. Reasonable storage space, you won't see another one and pretty quick. I liked my old VVC Libra too, probably a little more grunt low down than the Honda but bloody love the Honda engine and box in this car. Loves to rev and sounds awesome.
I've just fitted a new MGTF trophy 2.7 turn steering rack which makes it a hell of a lot sharper than before!
I've just fitted a new MGTF trophy 2.7 turn steering rack which makes it a hell of a lot sharper than before!
Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 20th October 14:35
darkyoung1000 said:
Another person here that had never heard of them - looks like a cracking machine. I love the air intake detail!
Cheers,
Tom
CheersCheers,
Tom
It sounds immense at 8k right behind my head
Planning on decatting it too, possibly at the weekend if the bits come. It does have a sport cat at the moment but it does seem to shut the car up a lot. So we'll see what it sounds like then. I thought more people knew about these cars by now TBH although I've never actually seen another on the road.
They were an impressive bit of design, but expensive to boot. Not your typical kit car levels of quality, the car has no traditional chassis, the centre tub is a glass fibre monocoque, with all mounting points for wishbones, suspension, engine cradle etc mounted to the tub on bolts with spreader plates inside. There's little access holes at various points in the double skinned areas to get your arms in. When putting it back together I actually got my arm stuck in the car for about 10 mins, not fun.
Inside they are really quite comfortable, much more than say an Elise, has a boot on the rear clam and plenty of space behind the seats, and a small glove compartment. The roof section panel also comes out and can be placed behind the seats if you want the roof-off experience without the drawback of a convertible.
It drives fairly well however with everything being adjustable it can take a long time to find a sweet spot, I don't think I've found that yet.. but it's slowly getting there.
Everything I've heard about them has been positive but I've had no dealings with them personally. All the work on both cars was done by myself and tapping into the knowledge on the owners forums, but I believe they do good work.
It really wouldn't take much to drop a VVC 160 motor in a k series metro yourself, though. I notice that on the spec sheet for it on their website it details using the PG1 box which I don't believe is necessary. I kept the R65 box when I upgraded my old Libra from 1.6 to 1.8VVC and it was fine, the only thing I did was up rate the input shaft bearing and get a slightly better starter motor. Made for shorter gearing and never had a problem with the box. I think the flywheel was smaller too although I ended up fitting a QED lightweight one anyway. It's a lightweight car at the end of the day so that naturally puts less stress on the box.
Dont think the wiring is mega complicated either from memory. Depends how involved you want to get I guess, as their 100rt is a decent package with extensive upgrades so not just a case of an engine transplant. But it's all do able with time and research.
It really wouldn't take much to drop a VVC 160 motor in a k series metro yourself, though. I notice that on the spec sheet for it on their website it details using the PG1 box which I don't believe is necessary. I kept the R65 box when I upgraded my old Libra from 1.6 to 1.8VVC and it was fine, the only thing I did was up rate the input shaft bearing and get a slightly better starter motor. Made for shorter gearing and never had a problem with the box. I think the flywheel was smaller too although I ended up fitting a QED lightweight one anyway. It's a lightweight car at the end of the day so that naturally puts less stress on the box.
Dont think the wiring is mega complicated either from memory. Depends how involved you want to get I guess, as their 100rt is a decent package with extensive upgrades so not just a case of an engine transplant. But it's all do able with time and research.
Edited by Yazza54 on Saturday 22 October 13:29
Just keep plodding on tidying any bits up. The door hinges could do with being refurbed, doors drop when opened. Should've done it by now really but not got round to it. Making a new link pipe without a cat, was going to chop the cat out of the one on the car now but though it made more sense to have two full pipes. Errrmmmmm that's it really. I'd like to get it painted as my old car looked the nuts in fresh red but that's a while off yet.
One thing I really need to do is spend some time/money on a full alignment / geometry set up. Just not sure whether to have a go myself or take it somewhere, but it would need to be somewhere used to your not so run of the mill cars as its a funny old setup on these.
One thing I really need to do is spend some time/money on a full alignment / geometry set up. Just not sure whether to have a go myself or take it somewhere, but it would need to be somewhere used to your not so run of the mill cars as its a funny old setup on these.
Not heard of them I'll ask google. Cheers Rog
Went out for a bit today, not mega far but was nice and incident free. I finally remembered why I wanted a weekend car again, it was nice to just go out with no clue where I was going to end up, just for a drive with no intended destination.
Took a quick iPhone snap, this is as good as it gets I don't do cameras and editing
Also chopped up an Elise centre console and fitted it to tidy up the gear change. I'm not 100% happy with it TBH, but it's a hell of a lot nicer than just a gear lever poking out of a hole.
.. And before I put the car away I decided to leather the wishbones and mounts in clear waxoyl spray, not gonna lie, it looks s
t. But you'll never really see it and it gives me the peace of mind that it won't end up going the same way as its first incarnation before my ownership...
Exhibit A (one of the old ones.. has new ones fitted now)
Went out for a bit today, not mega far but was nice and incident free. I finally remembered why I wanted a weekend car again, it was nice to just go out with no clue where I was going to end up, just for a drive with no intended destination.
Took a quick iPhone snap, this is as good as it gets I don't do cameras and editing
Also chopped up an Elise centre console and fitted it to tidy up the gear change. I'm not 100% happy with it TBH, but it's a hell of a lot nicer than just a gear lever poking out of a hole.
.. And before I put the car away I decided to leather the wishbones and mounts in clear waxoyl spray, not gonna lie, it looks s
t. But you'll never really see it and it gives me the peace of mind that it won't end up going the same way as its first incarnation before my ownership... Exhibit A (one of the old ones.. has new ones fitted now)
Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 3rd November 10:12
Decat y0!
I was originally going to chop the cat out but it made no sense. Was pretty easy to make a new pipe without it, so it's a quick swap come MOT time.
First impressions are it has a slightly deeper tone, bit more bass to it but not too loud, which is exactly what I wanted. Haven't actually driven it yet though so that's my only observation for now.
I was originally going to chop the cat out but it made no sense. Was pretty easy to make a new pipe without it, so it's a quick swap come MOT time.
First impressions are it has a slightly deeper tone, bit more bass to it but not too loud, which is exactly what I wanted. Haven't actually driven it yet though so that's my only observation for now.
Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 3rd November 09:52
Bit of an update
Begun prep on the Libra which goes for paint in a month, started with the boot, had a few chips out of the lip, tiny bit of crazing... also de badged it. Some may think that's sacrilege but I did it on my old car and it looked much better IMO. Going to go for bullseye lights too.
Also, Z cars developed a rear suspension setup some years ago that massively improved the handling. Now Z cars are back up and running with a new owner they've agreed to make a few kits, I managed to get a group buy together.. really looking forward to it.
The original twin trailing arm set up has a lot of inherent flex and tends to go out of adjustment. The z cars kit is more like a swinging arm, rose jointed and the mounts are fully braced adding strength to the bulkhead. Transforms the car from being "ok" to a genuine Elise competitor.... and considering the car has an Elise licked in many other departments (in my completely biased opinion
) it's well worth the money and effort.
Begun prep on the Libra which goes for paint in a month, started with the boot, had a few chips out of the lip, tiny bit of crazing... also de badged it. Some may think that's sacrilege but I did it on my old car and it looked much better IMO. Going to go for bullseye lights too.
Also, Z cars developed a rear suspension setup some years ago that massively improved the handling. Now Z cars are back up and running with a new owner they've agreed to make a few kits, I managed to get a group buy together.. really looking forward to it.
The original twin trailing arm set up has a lot of inherent flex and tends to go out of adjustment. The z cars kit is more like a swinging arm, rose jointed and the mounts are fully braced adding strength to the bulkhead. Transforms the car from being "ok" to a genuine Elise competitor.... and considering the car has an Elise licked in many other departments (in my completely biased opinion
) it's well worth the money and effort.
Yeah there's not many cars out there with it fitted, maybe 10 or 15. Supposed to make a big difference and after all the work I've done it would be daft not to as the opportunity may not always be there. David Rose the new owner of Z cars has been very helpful and willing to support the GTM, he's got his hands full as it is so it's great he's located the jigs and is up for doing it as it probably won't be a huge seller compared to all the mini stuff they do.
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