1996 Mercedes SL 600
Discussion
I have always hankered after one of these and am very happy to have acquired this one last weekend. It has covered just over 80,000 miles.
I had been searching in earnest for less than a fortnight. I was fortunate enough to hit Refresh on the Car and Classic website just a few minutes after the advert went live. The pictures looked good and the private vendor lived 40 minutes away. I arranged to view the car that evening and agreed on the deal at the owner's house.
The car was built in 1996 and registered in 1997. I think it was purchased via a dealer in Holland before being imported in to the UK.
I am a Mercedes novice but what I do know so far is:
- The engine is a 6-litre V12 with a 5-speed gearbox. Just under 400bhp.
- The paint is Mercedes paint code 189, called something along the lines of Emerald Black. It's essentially a very dark greenish/blue, the precise colour changing according to the light.
- The interior condition is incredible. It has extended leather everywhere, all beautifully stitched. It looks new.
- The canvas hood and plastic windows are in excellent condition, too. The hood works perfectly.
- The hard top likewise is in excellent condition. I would like a panoramic hardtop one day, which is basically one enormous sunroof.
- The hydraulic suspension works beautifully and control and ride and impressive.
- No squeaks or rattles whatsoever.
The bad bits:
- The engine has an oil leak/leaks. It seems that any remedial work will require huge amounts of labour and eye-watering bills. The engine bay is so tightly packed one needs to pull everything apart, or even engine out, for access.
- The rear differential is leaking.
- The air-conditioning does not work. I am told it needs a new condensor
- The cassette deck head unit LCD display has failed and the cassette slot flap has broken off.
- There a quite a few stone chips.
- All tyres need replacing. However, it rides on tiny (in this day and age) 225 55 16 tyres, so these will be relatively cheap.
- The front indicator lenses need renewing.
- One foglight lense is broken.
- The under-bonnet insulation is sagging a bit.
- It doesn't have xenon lights! I will upgrade the current halogens and see if I can live with them.
- Rear view mirror is wobbly.
- Centre brake light has been disabled. Apparently one of the multiple bulbs in the strip has failed and this would cause an MOT fail.
- There is a slight dent in the side of the bootlid. Looks a fairly easy fix, though.
I currently have the car up on my scissor lift to inspect the underside. I will upload those pics later in the week.
I had been searching in earnest for less than a fortnight. I was fortunate enough to hit Refresh on the Car and Classic website just a few minutes after the advert went live. The pictures looked good and the private vendor lived 40 minutes away. I arranged to view the car that evening and agreed on the deal at the owner's house.
The car was built in 1996 and registered in 1997. I think it was purchased via a dealer in Holland before being imported in to the UK.
I am a Mercedes novice but what I do know so far is:
- The engine is a 6-litre V12 with a 5-speed gearbox. Just under 400bhp.
- The paint is Mercedes paint code 189, called something along the lines of Emerald Black. It's essentially a very dark greenish/blue, the precise colour changing according to the light.
- The interior condition is incredible. It has extended leather everywhere, all beautifully stitched. It looks new.
- The canvas hood and plastic windows are in excellent condition, too. The hood works perfectly.
- The hard top likewise is in excellent condition. I would like a panoramic hardtop one day, which is basically one enormous sunroof.
- The hydraulic suspension works beautifully and control and ride and impressive.
- No squeaks or rattles whatsoever.
The bad bits:
- The engine has an oil leak/leaks. It seems that any remedial work will require huge amounts of labour and eye-watering bills. The engine bay is so tightly packed one needs to pull everything apart, or even engine out, for access.
- The rear differential is leaking.
- The air-conditioning does not work. I am told it needs a new condensor
- The cassette deck head unit LCD display has failed and the cassette slot flap has broken off.
- There a quite a few stone chips.
- All tyres need replacing. However, it rides on tiny (in this day and age) 225 55 16 tyres, so these will be relatively cheap.
- The front indicator lenses need renewing.
- One foglight lense is broken.
- The under-bonnet insulation is sagging a bit.
- It doesn't have xenon lights! I will upgrade the current halogens and see if I can live with them.
- Rear view mirror is wobbly.
- Centre brake light has been disabled. Apparently one of the multiple bulbs in the strip has failed and this would cause an MOT fail.
- There is a slight dent in the side of the bootlid. Looks a fairly easy fix, though.
I currently have the car up on my scissor lift to inspect the underside. I will upload those pics later in the week.
Edited by Hereward on Tuesday 26th July 22:05
Thanks for the comments. I will learn a lot from those of you with experience of these and will keep this thread updated with all the highs and lows of ownership.
A few more interior pics in the meantime, just so you can get an idea of how well it has stood the test of time over 20 years, 80k miles and 7 owners.
And the source of much pleasure (and probably some sleepless nights in the future):
A few more interior pics in the meantime, just so you can get an idea of how well it has stood the test of time over 20 years, 80k miles and 7 owners.
And the source of much pleasure (and probably some sleepless nights in the future):
I put the car up on my scissor lift and nervously prepared myself for horrors beneath.
As expected there was a quite a lot of oil (and still dripping a teaspoon or so a day). I have wiped it down and positioned tissue paper in various places to try and establish the source.
My immediate concern is the oil in the alternator. The copper stators are coated. It must be on borrowed time if the oil leaks persist.
The condition of the underbody is pretty decent considering the age. No serious corrosion apparent yet, but I will refrain from properly inspecting under the covers and liners until the engine leak is sorted first.
On another forum I read that a well respected Merc specialist took 48 hours to replace the head gaskets on this type of engine! Enough to make a grown man weep...
As expected there was a quite a lot of oil (and still dripping a teaspoon or so a day). I have wiped it down and positioned tissue paper in various places to try and establish the source.
My immediate concern is the oil in the alternator. The copper stators are coated. It must be on borrowed time if the oil leaks persist.
The condition of the underbody is pretty decent considering the age. No serious corrosion apparent yet, but I will refrain from properly inspecting under the covers and liners until the engine leak is sorted first.
On another forum I read that a well respected Merc specialist took 48 hours to replace the head gaskets on this type of engine! Enough to make a grown man weep...
Exhaust system has seen better days
Heat wrap peeling off exhaust as it exits the nearside headers
Exhaust should sound pretty interesting if this silencer develops a hole!
So, a full exhaust system replacement is also required. May get something to give it a little bit more character, but that will have to wait.
Rear diff leaking
Heat wrap peeling off exhaust as it exits the nearside headers
Exhaust should sound pretty interesting if this silencer develops a hole!
So, a full exhaust system replacement is also required. May get something to give it a little bit more character, but that will have to wait.
Rear diff leaking
Edited by Hereward on Tuesday 26th July 22:18
I was surprised at the poor tyres the car came with. I think some people really do regard them as simply black circular things. The rears were a matching pair of 2004 Winter tyres! The front nearside tyre is a Chinese "Autogrip F107" and the front offside a 2006 Dunlop with cracking on the sidewall. All in all, totally unacceptable on any car, let alone this one.
At the weekend I am having 4x 225/55/16 Continental PremiumContact2 99Y fitted at home...by Kwikfit. Wish me luck. They are only £100 each fully fitted so I have no idea why the previous owner was driving around on such rubbish, especially as he was happy to pay Merc main dealers to service the car.
A bland, no-nonsense 16 inch alloy, just the way I like it. Shame about the tyre.
For Heaven's sake.
Front discs and pads are brand new, fitted a few weeks before I purchased the car.
Hang on, has that disc been mounted the right way round? This is the front nearside...
At the weekend I am having 4x 225/55/16 Continental PremiumContact2 99Y fitted at home...by Kwikfit. Wish me luck. They are only £100 each fully fitted so I have no idea why the previous owner was driving around on such rubbish, especially as he was happy to pay Merc main dealers to service the car.
A bland, no-nonsense 16 inch alloy, just the way I like it. Shame about the tyre.
For Heaven's sake.
Front discs and pads are brand new, fitted a few weeks before I purchased the car.
Hang on, has that disc been mounted the right way round? This is the front nearside...
Edited by Hereward on Tuesday 26th July 22:30
r129sl said:
PS, that wireless set is really high quality and it is probably worth seeking out a like-for-like replacement. It was standard on the SL600 but on lesser models it was a four figure option. Anything modern will look hideous and be of inferior quality.
Good info, thank you.Yes, I will be seeking a like-for-like replacement, keeping it totally original.
0a said:
Hereward with regards to the exhaust I would recommend going OEM. I had to replace the exhaust on my 500 and went for a fabricated one - a mistake that I will correct by going back to what Mercedes built some time soon. A well balanced exhaust system is particularly apparent with an open top car that really is a long distance cruiser, in my opinion.
Thank you, I will certainly keep that in mind and I want to keep things as original as possible. The only thing is...apparently this engine can sound like a Zonda with the right exhaust...I have found the source of the current engine oil leak. It's the sump. This is brilliant news, since it's the only part of the engine that is easily accessible without tearing things apart and the parts are simple and cheap.
For the last few nights I have been under the car stuffing bits of tissue places in various places then inspecting them the following evening to establish the source of the leak.
The picture below shows the gasket and a sump sensor (partially obscured, with the red arrow pointing at it) leaking, plus a few teaspoon's of oil on the floor. The red circles show sump bolts with fresh oil on them. The tissue above the sump is bone dry. With the engine turned off there is no current leak from higher up. However, historically there has been and I need to repeat this test with the engine running with hot oil circulating and pressurised, since I still think the timing chain and valve cover gaskets could be suspect (and, Heaven forbid, the head gaskets).
For the last few nights I have been under the car stuffing bits of tissue places in various places then inspecting them the following evening to establish the source of the leak.
The picture below shows the gasket and a sump sensor (partially obscured, with the red arrow pointing at it) leaking, plus a few teaspoon's of oil on the floor. The red circles show sump bolts with fresh oil on them. The tissue above the sump is bone dry. With the engine turned off there is no current leak from higher up. However, historically there has been and I need to repeat this test with the engine running with hot oil circulating and pressurised, since I still think the timing chain and valve cover gaskets could be suspect (and, Heaven forbid, the head gaskets).
Edited by Hereward on Thursday 28th July 20:09
si_xsi said:
Lovely car OP, ex Evo owner Harry Metcalfe owned one an did a video of it shot in Monaco. It's a good watch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LhX0Y2wQfqo
It was that video that made me pull the trigger and make the purchase!https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LhX0Y2wQfqo
Needless to say there was a problem with the KwikFit mobile tyre fitting service. The balancing machine in their van is broken so I've rescheduled for next week.
To be fair to them they let me know early on and have waived the fitting fee.
So the car was sitting like a beached whale in anticipation and I wasted my time taking the wheels off and then having to refit them.
Incidentally, with cars equipped with the hydraulic Adaptive Damping System (ADS), before the wheels are raised off the ground you should press this red button (pic) first, to lock the suspension. I forgot to do this, so fingers crossed I haven't caused any calibration/sensor issues...
To be fair to them they let me know early on and have waived the fitting fee.
So the car was sitting like a beached whale in anticipation and I wasted my time taking the wheels off and then having to refit them.
Incidentally, with cars equipped with the hydraulic Adaptive Damping System (ADS), before the wheels are raised off the ground you should press this red button (pic) first, to lock the suspension. I forgot to do this, so fingers crossed I haven't caused any calibration/sensor issues...
hoppo4.2 said:
Is it ads 1 or ads 2 on your car.
I had a v8 with ads1 and it didn't have that red button not that it mattered because it didn't work anyway.
ADS 2.I had a v8 with ads1 and it didn't have that red button not that it mattered because it didn't work anyway.
No issues when I lowered the car back on to its tyres, started the engine and reversed out. Phew.
However, after returning from a drive I pressed the red button and the whole switch assembly fell back in to the dashboard. Fortunately I could access it from underneath by pulling out the park brake handle and I was able to click it back in place. Oddly there was a small plate of metal wedged between the bottom of the red button and its surround (you can see it in the above pic). I prised it out and it freed up the red button movement.
It seems to be working properly:
Edited by Hereward on Saturday 30th July 18:57
KwikFit came and fitted the Continentals (PremiumContact2 99Y) on Tuesday. A nice little touch was the use of silver metal dust caps. I am happy to recommend KwikFit mobile fitting on the basis of my experience with them.
The tyres are nothing special but absolutely fine for my needs, which will be wafting about with minimum fuss. Makes a nice change not having to fork out for Michelin Pilot SuperSports, which I use on my M5.
Had a short drive tonight and am now starting to understand the nature and character of this car. It's about whispering, not shouting. I have never driven a Rolls Royce but I would expect the feeling is similar - it's not about thrashing the car or chucking it around. It's about utterly serene, effortless progress, safe in the knowledge there's a large power reserve on tap if so required. Initially I took the lack of engine/exhaust noise to be a negative, now I treat it as a positive.
Tomorrow I drop the car off with a local Merc specialist for a week. Job List:
Replace leaking engine oil sump gasket
Compression/Leakdown test of all 12 cylinders
Fix duff aircon (new condenser?)
New pair of track rod ends (I noticed one ball joint gaiter is oozing grease)
New fuel filter
Fix slight oil leak from rear diff
New steering damper
New centre brake light
New underbonnet insulation
Geometry check
After my drive this evening I performed a block test on the cooling system and was very relieved that no combustion gases were present. The biggest fear on this car is failed head gaskets - about 50 hours of labour.
The tyres are nothing special but absolutely fine for my needs, which will be wafting about with minimum fuss. Makes a nice change not having to fork out for Michelin Pilot SuperSports, which I use on my M5.
Had a short drive tonight and am now starting to understand the nature and character of this car. It's about whispering, not shouting. I have never driven a Rolls Royce but I would expect the feeling is similar - it's not about thrashing the car or chucking it around. It's about utterly serene, effortless progress, safe in the knowledge there's a large power reserve on tap if so required. Initially I took the lack of engine/exhaust noise to be a negative, now I treat it as a positive.
Tomorrow I drop the car off with a local Merc specialist for a week. Job List:
Replace leaking engine oil sump gasket
Compression/Leakdown test of all 12 cylinders
Fix duff aircon (new condenser?)
New pair of track rod ends (I noticed one ball joint gaiter is oozing grease)
New fuel filter
Fix slight oil leak from rear diff
New steering damper
New centre brake light
New underbonnet insulation
Geometry check
After my drive this evening I performed a block test on the cooling system and was very relieved that no combustion gases were present. The biggest fear on this car is failed head gaskets - about 50 hours of labour.
Edited by Hereward on Friday 5th August 22:38
Hereward said:
Tomorrow I drop the car off with a local Merc specialist for a week. Job List:
Replace leaking engine oil sump gasket
Compression/Leakdown test of all 12 cylinders
Fix duff aircon (new condenser?)
New pair of track rod ends (I noticed one ball joint gaiter is oozing grease)
New fuel filter
Fix slight oil leak from rear diff
New steering damper
New centre brake light
New underbonnet insulation
Geometry check
After my drive this evening I performed a block test on the cooling system and was very relieved that no combustion gases were present. The biggest fear on this car is failed head gaskets - about 50 hours of labour.
I collected the car from the garage a few hours ago, having had all the work in this list done, apart from the aircon.Replace leaking engine oil sump gasket
Compression/Leakdown test of all 12 cylinders
Fix duff aircon (new condenser?)
New pair of track rod ends (I noticed one ball joint gaiter is oozing grease)
New fuel filter
Fix slight oil leak from rear diff
New steering damper
New centre brake light
New underbonnet insulation
Geometry check
After my drive this evening I performed a block test on the cooling system and was very relieved that no combustion gases were present. The biggest fear on this car is failed head gaskets - about 50 hours of labour.
I am happy to recommend "IN Autos" in East Grinstead.
Compression test results were good, very pleasing that all cylinders are in fine fettle:
Cylinder# / Pressure
1 = 12.0 Bar
2 = 12.0
3 = 12.0
4 = 12.2
5 = 12.0
6 = 12.0
7 = 11.2
8 = 12.0
9 = 11.8
10 = 11.8
11 = 12.0
12 = 11.8
No leakdown test was performed given the excellent compression and block test results.
There is still evidence of a very slight oil leak from the front of the engine, so the car is going in again soon. The front bumper will be taken off to replace the aircon condensor (on back order from Germany) and receiver/drier and address the oil leak from the timing case area at the same time. Also the alternator can be properly degreased and the noisy secondary air pump can be inspected, too.
Replacing the 3 oil seals on the rear differential wasn't cheap but hopefully it won't need opening up again to that extent for another 10+ years.
The geometry tweaks have been successful - the car no longer dives to the left when I take my hands off the wheel.
The garage highlighted two other issues that I will attend to in due course:
- Wet power steering hose
- Rear brake flexi hoses starting to crack. They are the original items so 20 years old. Impressive.
TR4man said:
Todzilla said:
I think that the headlamp knob is on upside down...
Well spotted Hawkeye!Edited by Hereward on Friday 19th August 20:11
r129sl said:
Thick towel cloth, pair of pliers, grip knob through cloth, pull off. Installation reverse of removal.
Looks like someone has bought a new knob (the white paint wears off) but fitted it upside down. A somewhat schizophrenic approach to attention to detail.
Air con condensers are not stocked in the UK but should be available in four days from the Fatherland. They are made by Behr. Eurocarparts tend to keep Behr items in stock at half the main dealer price. Certainly that was my experience earlier this year.
Edit: don't leave the exhaust too long.
Thank you. Good to hear it's simply a pull off/push on job. I will do it in the next few days.Looks like someone has bought a new knob (the white paint wears off) but fitted it upside down. A somewhat schizophrenic approach to attention to detail.
Air con condensers are not stocked in the UK but should be available in four days from the Fatherland. They are made by Behr. Eurocarparts tend to keep Behr items in stock at half the main dealer price. Certainly that was my experience earlier this year.
Edit: don't leave the exhaust too long.
Once the aircon is sorted and the engine oil-tight then I will attend to the exhaust. Headers could do with renewal too; probably a pig of a job given the lack of space.
Switch now in its correct orientation! It came off easily without pliers and the job took approximately 4 seconds.
I can see why a previous owner mounted it upside down, to hide the heavily scuffed top. I can't quite figure out the cause of the scuffage, short of pulling the switch off and deliberately grinding it against a paving slab
I will get a shiny new one at some point.
I can see why a previous owner mounted it upside down, to hide the heavily scuffed top. I can't quite figure out the cause of the scuffage, short of pulling the switch off and deliberately grinding it against a paving slab
I will get a shiny new one at some point.
Rocksteadyeddie said:
r129sl said:
They're about £2.50 at the dealer: I bought one a fortnight ago.
You mean stealer? Oh...Also ordered a pair of new front indicator units, side repeaters, new ADS switch and a foglight lense. The front indicators will take a month or so, none in the UK and none in the main warehouse in Germany.
Stegel said:
Hereward said:
Funnily enough I ordered a new one yesterday from my local Merc dealer.......
Also ordered a pair of new front indicator units ........The front indicators will take a month or so, none in the UK and none in the main warehouse in Germany.
Interesting - these were NLA 6 months ago when my car jettisoned one on the M40 - had to make do with less than perfect copy. I presume you are keeping it on clear lenses (rather than amber)? Do you have the part numbers please. Also ordered a pair of new front indicator units ........The front indicators will take a month or so, none in the UK and none in the main warehouse in Germany.
I collected them today, it seems Merc didn't have to wait long for delivery.
The clear front indicator lenses are part numbers 129 826 09 43 and 129 826 10 43. One is Left, one is Right, I haven't made a note of which is which.
I can't fit them yet because the car is away having the aircon fixed and some other bits an bobs.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
r129sl said:
On right hand side parts, the third digit from the end of the part number always is even number; left hand side parts, it is always odd. So the 10 43 is right and the 09 43 is left.
How do you get to know this s
t? It's wonderful. And a bit odd!
Looks like I got lucky and they had manufactured a fresh batch of indicators just before I ordered:
As well as L and R on the sticker you can also see L and R embossed in to the plastic. Even I may be able to fit them the right way round.
The new a/c condensor has been fitted, along with a new water pump, auxiliary belt and rear brake hoses. The front of the engine casing and the alternator were thoroughly degreased so the source of any fresh oil leaks should now be apparent. I think the timing case gaskets could do with renewal sooner rather than later and possibly the valve cover gaskets.
A new thermostat is on order. It's an easy fit, mounted right at the top front of the engine, in the V.
The bearing for the noisy secondary air pump was taken to a bearing specialist but they could not match the part. They have managed to quieten it down, so it's not quite so undignified during the cold start cycle. Another 600 owner told me it is possible to fit a shorter aux. belt and bypass the air pump altogether, without throwing a fault code, so that's a cheap option to consider down the line.
I have replaced the front and side indicators. The fog light lense I ordered was for the wrong side so I have ordered again.
A satisfying simple job for my young son was to fit a new o-ring to the oil dipstick. It now seals properly when pushed in.
The original Exquisit (Panasonic) head unit has been sent off for repair, to fix the leaky LCD and broken cassette flap. Parts are still available but have to be sent over from Yokohama in Japan and I am advised they are quite slow.
Next job is to renew the hydraulic fluid for the ADS suspension system and the folding roof. The current fluid looks like it hasn't been changed for an eternity so I have ordered Febi ZH-M 02615 and will post some pics of the fluid change in the ADS and hood reservoirs.
A new thermostat is on order. It's an easy fit, mounted right at the top front of the engine, in the V.
The bearing for the noisy secondary air pump was taken to a bearing specialist but they could not match the part. They have managed to quieten it down, so it's not quite so undignified during the cold start cycle. Another 600 owner told me it is possible to fit a shorter aux. belt and bypass the air pump altogether, without throwing a fault code, so that's a cheap option to consider down the line.
I have replaced the front and side indicators. The fog light lense I ordered was for the wrong side so I have ordered again.
A satisfying simple job for my young son was to fit a new o-ring to the oil dipstick. It now seals properly when pushed in.
The original Exquisit (Panasonic) head unit has been sent off for repair, to fix the leaky LCD and broken cassette flap. Parts are still available but have to be sent over from Yokohama in Japan and I am advised they are quite slow.
Next job is to renew the hydraulic fluid for the ADS suspension system and the folding roof. The current fluid looks like it hasn't been changed for an eternity so I have ordered Febi ZH-M 02615 and will post some pics of the fluid change in the ADS and hood reservoirs.
Edited by Hereward on Saturday 15th October 10:47
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