Lotus Elise S1 Honda Conversion Build
Discussion
Bought this almost a month ago, having sped up my search considerably watching the prices of S1 Elise's skyrocket almost over night:
Good spec, recent full respray, non-category car, with Probax seats, S2 suspension, larger throttle body etc etc. I've had an S1 Elise before, and don't think I'd have been able to pay considerably more what I'd sold it for to get another. Luckily this fell within budget.
It's a purple colour, but looks black in photos, unless the light is shining on it:
Here's the previous Elise which was sold to buy a Boxster S, (as my girlfriend hated the Lotus for it's lack of comfort):
Unfortunately the Boxster has an engine made from cheese, and it blew up within 4,000 miles!
More good luck with cars for 2016 continues...
Was out for a run in South Wales 5 days later, when the alternator light came on. Pulled over and hadn't noticed the camshaft pulley bolt had came out. Taking the camshaft pulley with it. And then as it was idling the cam belt came off. Game over.
Fast forward a few days and I'd sourced an MG TF 160 with 37k on it. Full S/H and head gasket changed. All was well, until 10 minutes after purchasing and this happened:
Some conversation with the understanding seller and I was back on a train home with (most of) my money back! Less than half an hour of boredom on the train resulted in a Honda K20 engine being purchased. Thinking this has to be the answer to the Rover K Series unreliability and low bhp/litre. The Honda conversion was always on the cards, but didn't think it would be this soon after purchase.
So off came the rear clamshell. Very easily in about 2 hours!
And me looking pretty proud that the engine/gearbox was free of the car:
As far as spannering usually goes, to get to this stage has been a breeze. No fights with components, and all straight forward.
Good spec, recent full respray, non-category car, with Probax seats, S2 suspension, larger throttle body etc etc. I've had an S1 Elise before, and don't think I'd have been able to pay considerably more what I'd sold it for to get another. Luckily this fell within budget.
It's a purple colour, but looks black in photos, unless the light is shining on it:
Here's the previous Elise which was sold to buy a Boxster S, (as my girlfriend hated the Lotus for it's lack of comfort):
Unfortunately the Boxster has an engine made from cheese, and it blew up within 4,000 miles!
More good luck with cars for 2016 continues...
Was out for a run in South Wales 5 days later, when the alternator light came on. Pulled over and hadn't noticed the camshaft pulley bolt had came out. Taking the camshaft pulley with it. And then as it was idling the cam belt came off. Game over.
Fast forward a few days and I'd sourced an MG TF 160 with 37k on it. Full S/H and head gasket changed. All was well, until 10 minutes after purchasing and this happened:
Some conversation with the understanding seller and I was back on a train home with (most of) my money back! Less than half an hour of boredom on the train resulted in a Honda K20 engine being purchased. Thinking this has to be the answer to the Rover K Series unreliability and low bhp/litre. The Honda conversion was always on the cards, but didn't think it would be this soon after purchase.
So off came the rear clamshell. Very easily in about 2 hours!
And me looking pretty proud that the engine/gearbox was free of the car:
As far as spannering usually goes, to get to this stage has been a breeze. No fights with components, and all straight forward.
With the Honda K20 Engine there's some future proofing required, to ensure you don't have any engine out jobs to do once it's in the Elise.
First of which is replacing the timing chain.
It can stretch over time and probably has an interval of around 100-120k before it's needing done. Being Honda, it doesn't just go bang, but a warning light will come on with a code relating to this. It's a hard job to to in an EP3 Civic Type R. I didn't fancy it in the lotus, so I've taken the necessary precautions of a new genuine (has to be genuine to ensure the quality of chain is assured) Honda timing chain & tensioner.
The strip down of engine to get to the timing chain is very easy, taking off the cam cover, and front plate of the engine. Undo all the bolts for the chain tensioners and the chain is off. Pretty simple so far. Once at this stage you can compare the length of chain to see if the old one has stretched. Mine had, but by less than 10mm. I've seen photos of much longer ones, and the automatic tensioner corrects this to some extent.
To time it you simply line up the dots, and marks, and different coloured chain links and fit the tensioners. Very easy!
Timing chain changed:
First of which is replacing the timing chain.
It can stretch over time and probably has an interval of around 100-120k before it's needing done. Being Honda, it doesn't just go bang, but a warning light will come on with a code relating to this. It's a hard job to to in an EP3 Civic Type R. I didn't fancy it in the lotus, so I've taken the necessary precautions of a new genuine (has to be genuine to ensure the quality of chain is assured) Honda timing chain & tensioner.
The strip down of engine to get to the timing chain is very easy, taking off the cam cover, and front plate of the engine. Undo all the bolts for the chain tensioners and the chain is off. Pretty simple so far. Once at this stage you can compare the length of chain to see if the old one has stretched. Mine had, but by less than 10mm. I've seen photos of much longer ones, and the automatic tensioner corrects this to some extent.
To time it you simply line up the dots, and marks, and different coloured chain links and fit the tensioners. Very easy!
Timing chain changed:
Here's hoping with the Honda engine!Thanks for the positive comments!
In order for the engine to fit, the driver's side lower suspension arm needs the brace cut and welded back in place closer to the balljoint:
Worth noting that in this photo I'd braced it externally, which wasn't correct. It needed the washers on the inside to bring it back out to measurements required.
Friendly garage welding the brace back in place for £20:
It's now been painted in anti-corrosion paint and back on the car.
Next up is the LSD I picked up in Manchester last week:
Wavetrac LSD
...With free gearbox, that is said to be hard to shift, but came from a 350bhp turbo charged civic. The seller said it may have uprated carbon synchros. When I strip it to remove the LSD I'll compare the condition of the gearbox I have, and this one swapping any parts that are in better condition. I'll replace any parts that are worn out at this point too.
Interestingly you can tell the difference between a gearbox with and LSD and one without by looking through the differential outputs. If you can't see through = LSD.
Most Honda Elise builds seem to miss out an LSD, probably on the grounds of another additional cost on already out of control budgets. Mine was a lucky find for £350. I want to have the option to supercharge this, and the extra traction off the line that an LSD provides will be fun.
In order for the engine to fit, the driver's side lower suspension arm needs the brace cut and welded back in place closer to the balljoint:
Worth noting that in this photo I'd braced it externally, which wasn't correct. It needed the washers on the inside to bring it back out to measurements required.
Friendly garage welding the brace back in place for £20:
It's now been painted in anti-corrosion paint and back on the car.
Next up is the LSD I picked up in Manchester last week:
Wavetrac LSD
...With free gearbox, that is said to be hard to shift, but came from a 350bhp turbo charged civic. The seller said it may have uprated carbon synchros. When I strip it to remove the LSD I'll compare the condition of the gearbox I have, and this one swapping any parts that are in better condition. I'll replace any parts that are worn out at this point too.
Interestingly you can tell the difference between a gearbox with and LSD and one without by looking through the differential outputs. If you can't see through = LSD.
Most Honda Elise builds seem to miss out an LSD, probably on the grounds of another additional cost on already out of control budgets. Mine was a lucky find for £350. I want to have the option to supercharge this, and the extra traction off the line that an LSD provides will be fun.
TheRocket said:
Good luck with the build and that's a great colour for an Elise.
Ref 350hp, if you intend to chargecool too then maybe you'll get close however with just the JRSC I think you are probably looking at high 200's maybe 300bhp, no doubt you've been on SELOC, if not there are a lot of knowledgeable people on there willing to help.
Cheers! Looking forward to it all being back together and running.Ref 350hp, if you intend to chargecool too then maybe you'll get close however with just the JRSC I think you are probably looking at high 200's maybe 300bhp, no doubt you've been on SELOC, if not there are a lot of knowledgeable people on there willing to help.
Yeah, I'll either need a charge cooler or (maybe an aftercooler will do it?) to get close to 350bhp.
I'll improve it over time anyway, as once you've owned a car for a while you tend to get used to how quick it is. The JRSC kit provides a good platform for future upgrades. Whether that is a twin screw charger or whatever.
MrGman said:
Looking good 
I can't see any mention so far, will you be removing the rear sub frame and checking for corrosion and applying a anti corrosive coating? Not sure if the S1 elites had this problem but i know of some later cars and VX's that were showing quite bad corrosion in this area.
Yeah, the subframe is steel, so can corrode. This one is in very good condition - no corrosion:I can't see any mention so far, will you be removing the rear sub frame and checking for corrosion and applying a anti corrosive coating? Not sure if the S1 elites had this problem but i know of some later cars and VX's that were showing quite bad corrosion in this area.
Painted it anyway:
The Bandit said:
Get plenty of heat shield around that subframe particularly where the exhaust manifold will go.
There's some heat going to be produced in that little space...
More gold heat shield arrives tomorrow, thanks!There's some heat going to be produced in that little space...
TheRocket said:
+1 and wrap the exhaust manifold while your at it, also while you have the rear clam off cut away around the fog and reversing light (do a search on seloc) and buy or make a spacer kit for the rear diffuser, one of the biggest problems in the s1 is there no where for all that extra heat to go, it badly needs more airflow. I also installed a bigger mesh on the engine lid to allow the heat to escape quicker.
Seen this modification and liked the look of it. That's made my mind up that it's worth while, cheers.Your yellow S1 looks incredible, and must be unbelievably quick. It's how I'd like mine to end up. Good luck with the sale!
I've revised my initial ambition on power to around 300bhp, as can't justify the extra cost to charge cool it at the moment. The budget is already blown to pieces with adding the supercharger. Also concerned it'll be difficult to learn how it drives with this much power anyway.
What's your SC/CC Elise like?
Sounds great fun!!
Still waiting for the supercharger, which according to the Hermes tracking is sat at the sender's local depot and hasn't moved since Thursday afternoon.
I've started on the wiring...
From the horrible and sticky job of unwrapping the original loom to see where all the wires go:
To all labelled, read for the final loom to be created once I've worked out lengths and positioning:
Hopefully SWMBO doesn't notice that I stole most of her tit tape to label the wires
Still waiting for the supercharger, which according to the Hermes tracking is sat at the sender's local depot and hasn't moved since Thursday afternoon.
I've started on the wiring...
From the horrible and sticky job of unwrapping the original loom to see where all the wires go:
To all labelled, read for the final loom to be created once I've worked out lengths and positioning:
Hopefully SWMBO doesn't notice that I stole most of her tit tape to label the wires
Got ripped off - let's not talk about it More importantly - It runs!
https://youtu.be/maHwsOIjBvM
Spent the last week trying to figure out what was going on with the wiring, as it would not start!
Turned out that I simply hadn't connected one of the live feeds (label that I'd added to the brown live wire had come off)
Hours and hours wasted testing the multifunction relay unit, hot wiring the fuel pump, finally traced back to that.
All that's left is to bleed the clutch, some heat shield around the subframe, and reinstall the rear clam.
Wont be long now until it can be driven...
https://youtu.be/maHwsOIjBvM
Spent the last week trying to figure out what was going on with the wiring, as it would not start!
Turned out that I simply hadn't connected one of the live feeds (label that I'd added to the brown live wire had come off)
Hours and hours wasted testing the multifunction relay unit, hot wiring the fuel pump, finally traced back to that.All that's left is to bleed the clutch, some heat shield around the subframe, and reinstall the rear clam.
Wont be long now until it can be driven...
I've had the car working since the 8th of Feb, and the first drive felt insanely quick - far too fast even! The increase in power is brilliant.
There were a couple of set backs. The first was my original exhaust backbox wouldn't fit, and couldn't be modified to work. A four hour round trip in the daily and I had a new (to me) stainless steel backbox.
Then after the first run the radiator was leaking. The car had a standard radiator with plastic end caps, which fail under the increased pressure from the Honda engine. Alloy radiator ordered, and front clam removed in order to fit.
7 hours later and I'd got it fitted and back together!
Some pictures for the insurance agreed valuation:
The noise the car makes from inside the cabin is very similar which surprised me a bit. The car sounds identical in the lower half of the rev range, it's not until it hits VTEC that the car sounds significantly different. VTEC at first was left at the normal changeover RPM of around 5,600. It was a sudden change to the point it felt like the car had come on boost. (My girlfriend was reluctant to get back in the car after the first drive as she thought VTEC was me causing the rear wheels to lose traction!).
I've lowered it to 4,200rpm at full throttle and it much feels more linear, and seems a bit quicker too. Once it gets mapped they'll change this to rpm to suit.
The Wavetrac LSD that I wasn't sure was worth the extra outlay is incredible. Makes it much more predictable, and even before I'd changed the previous owner's mismatched rear tyres was providing great traction off the line. If anyone is thinking of doing this conversion, this part is well worth the extra money. It can't be changed without removing the engine from the car, so really had to be done as part of the build.
The final drive could do with being lowered from 4.7 to 4.0 as it sits at 4,000rpm at 80. It will definitely need this final drive ratio changed if I supercharge it. It drives so well as N/A though, and even in the wet it feels predictable and not over engined.
A lot of people have mentioned they don't like the gearshift on the Stark kit. I can't fault it. Does what's asked of it and has a better feel than standard (although that wouldn't be hard really).
As mentioned earlier, at low speed the engine vibrates a little on its relatively solid mounts and stays. It's no problem when moving, and seems to have calmed a little as the mounts bed in.
I've fitted Yokohama AD08R's - what a difference to the Toyo's! They have incredible wet grip, and are better in the dry too. Unlike the Toyo's which seem to be allergic to damp or wet conditions
Spent the day driving it today in the pouring rain on some fantastic roads
Absolutely love it!
There were a couple of set backs. The first was my original exhaust backbox wouldn't fit, and couldn't be modified to work. A four hour round trip in the daily and I had a new (to me) stainless steel backbox.
Then after the first run the radiator was leaking. The car had a standard radiator with plastic end caps, which fail under the increased pressure from the Honda engine. Alloy radiator ordered, and front clam removed in order to fit.
7 hours later and I'd got it fitted and back together! Some pictures for the insurance agreed valuation:
The noise the car makes from inside the cabin is very similar which surprised me a bit. The car sounds identical in the lower half of the rev range, it's not until it hits VTEC that the car sounds significantly different. VTEC at first was left at the normal changeover RPM of around 5,600. It was a sudden change to the point it felt like the car had come on boost. (My girlfriend was reluctant to get back in the car after the first drive as she thought VTEC was me causing the rear wheels to lose traction!).
I've lowered it to 4,200rpm at full throttle and it much feels more linear, and seems a bit quicker too. Once it gets mapped they'll change this to rpm to suit.
The Wavetrac LSD that I wasn't sure was worth the extra outlay is incredible. Makes it much more predictable, and even before I'd changed the previous owner's mismatched rear tyres was providing great traction off the line. If anyone is thinking of doing this conversion, this part is well worth the extra money. It can't be changed without removing the engine from the car, so really had to be done as part of the build.
The final drive could do with being lowered from 4.7 to 4.0 as it sits at 4,000rpm at 80. It will definitely need this final drive ratio changed if I supercharge it. It drives so well as N/A though, and even in the wet it feels predictable and not over engined.
A lot of people have mentioned they don't like the gearshift on the Stark kit. I can't fault it. Does what's asked of it and has a better feel than standard (although that wouldn't be hard really).
As mentioned earlier, at low speed the engine vibrates a little on its relatively solid mounts and stays. It's no problem when moving, and seems to have calmed a little as the mounts bed in.
I've fitted Yokohama AD08R's - what a difference to the Toyo's! They have incredible wet grip, and are better in the dry too. Unlike the Toyo's which seem to be allergic to damp or wet conditions
Spent the day driving it today in the pouring rain on some fantastic roads
Absolutely love it!
I'd take your advice over anyone else's Dan, given the quality of the conversions you produce! Maybe I need a longer 6th (or 5th and 6th)?
100dB at 4000rpm with the roof on is a bit tiresome. Roof off the noise doesn't seem to bother me! I'd wanted to be able to drive it to the great roads usually via motorway, with out earplugs or noise cancelling headphones.
Also, cruising through 40mph villages in 6th when in any other car I'd be in 4th seems wrong.
What's your thoughts?
100dB at 4000rpm with the roof on is a bit tiresome. Roof off the noise doesn't seem to bother me! I'd wanted to be able to drive it to the great roads usually via motorway, with out earplugs or noise cancelling headphones.
Also, cruising through 40mph villages in 6th when in any other car I'd be in 4th seems wrong.
What's your thoughts?
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