Caymen gen 2 - white smoke on start up - HELP!!!

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Dear PH

Just bought a gen2 09 plate Cayman, 6.5k miles on the clock and running amazing - apart from white smoke sometimes spewing from the exhaust on start up!!

The smoke seems to come out when i start from warm (rather than hot or cold) and its definitely smoke not vapour. Its intermitent and does not smoke when i'm driving, just on start up - but it looks bad!!

The car was just serviced before i picked it up and when i took it back they thought they had probably overfilled the oil and drained some out, but it got confusing when they said that they had done an oil flush and the oil level would show low for now until the oil was fully circulated - its still showing low even after a 20 mile journey.

I've read some pretty scary threads about piston rings etc, anyone heard of this problem and did it get resolved??

Any help appreciated.

Premio

Edited by premio on Saturday 11th June 19:24

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The current oil level (after the chap drained it today) shows very low - 1 bar out of 4 (or 5, can't remember) on the oil guage. The bloke who drained the oil said this would show low and that i should top up after my next run - but it still smoked even after the oil was drained and refilled (to make sure it wasnt overfilled originally).

I've been doing some digging around the internet and it makes throughly depressing reading, there is some bloke who has waged some kind of crusade after his cayman started to smoke upon start up, and has gone to great lengths to pull the engine apart and identify what he believes is the problem (valve guides wearing quickly on all 09 Boxsters and Cayman 2.9s), but its hard to work out if this is just one of those people out to prove a point and therefore will insist there is a problem just to win an e-war -

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-problems-co...

and

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-problems-co...

The problem seems to be with 09 plate 2.9 Cayman and Boxsters only (and mines an 09), and does not seem to affect the 3.4

I'm totally gutted really as i have just stepped out of a BMW that ran like a dream and was hoping to go for an upgrade, and in 1 day of ownership i've had 3 massive clouds of white smoke, and an internet full of horror stories

I am really not sure what to do, the car is 2 months out of Porsche manufacturers warranty, and due to being mighty skint until payday i don't dare take it to a Porsche main dealer in case they sting me with a bill. The dealer i bought it from provides a 6 month extended warranty, but no way will they want to get involved with this, and will probably just point it to "normal for a flat 6" as this seems to be an accpeted answer, but there does appear to be an actual design fault with the car.

My ideal situ right now would be to return the car, i really cant be dealing with a car that puffs white smoke (really badly) upon start up from warm, and just go and buy a new shape Z4 or something instead.

What would everyone else do?

I dont blame the dealer BTW, they have been very friendly and i doubt they would have bought in a car to sell if they knew it had this problem, but its just very annoying!

Edited by premio on Saturday 11th June 19:10

Edited by premio on Saturday 11th June 19:23

[premio]

Hi Durzel,

The timeline was as follows:

Picked up the car today at 10am (porsche specialist dealer, not main)
noticed a puff of smoke (bad one, filled up my car park!) when i started it about midday
noticed another puff of smoke about 3pm (not as bad, but still bad enough to cover the car!)
took it straight back to the dealer who thought it was probs over filled oil, and they drained and refilled - and when we started the car there was another puff of smoke!

I had test driven it during the week and there was no problem, and they serviced it on Thursday whilst waiting for me to collect it.

I have also just mailed the previous owner (got his email from an advert) and he reckons he hadnt spotted any smoke issues previously, however from a few other forums there does seem to be a recognised problem with the early gen2 caymans - for example no one is reporting these smoke problems with later caymens or early gen 2 3.4 caymens.

I am not sure i could live with the problem - its actually mega embarrasing starting the car in public now and thats now way to have to put up with a nice car!

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anonymous said:

[redacted]

Hi, yes i know you're right. Its also hard to judge if people like me are being over dramatic, and i go get that there will always be a bit pf smoke from car exhausts under certain conditions, however i have never seen anything as bad as this, and even as a porsche dealer himself he clearly hadnt either as none of his other porsches that he was selling do the same to that extent (being flat 6's too), and i suspect if my PX car had massive amounts of smoke on start up he wouldnt touch it with a barge pole (understandable)

I'm really not sure what to do right now!

Does anyone have the email of porsche GB just so i can mail them to get their advice / see what they come up with??

thanks everyone for your answers so far.

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Durzel said:

If it wasn't doing it on the test drive and it is doing it now then that imo would point squarely to something having changed, and since the dealer is the only place that has touched it I would be chasing them quite hard to sort it out.

It doesn't sound normal to me that a prestige car would be covered in a blanket of smoke when you start it up, as you say it is faintly embarassing. That said it does sound like flat sixes do puff smoke normally as well.

Porsche GB will probably say that it should've been serviced by an OPC and/or that it is out of warranty I'm afraid to say, but it's worth a shot.

Thanks Durzel,

Yes the warranty issue is one i need to think about, the cars have a 20,000 mile / 2 year schedule and it turned 2 in June, the dealer did the first serivce just outside of the 2 years, so either way they would possibly use this againstt me, the car has only done 6,250 miles tho so they may give me some grace.

I'd quite happily take my cayman to a porsche centre for another service anyway at my cost, if anything just so i feel happy the right amount of oil is in there. I may well do that at the end of the month on payday (skint right now from the purchase!)

I'm not sure what Porsche are like with customer service / slighgtly out of warranty issues, BMW and Renault both sorted probs for me with no hesitation, so we'll see!

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To give an idea of the amount of smoke (if this helps), this dude made a vid of his gen 2 at start up and its exactly the same amount of smoke i'd say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be53GbAiWpo

Would this look like the normal amount for a flat 6, or other porsches under "normal" circumstances?

thanks

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it went in to an OPC today and they had a tinker around. They spoke to the supplier dealer who has clearly overfilled the car with oil on the pre delivery service (they reckon by as much as a litre!).

They did the flash software upgrade as a matter of course and reset the oil level, and are keeping it overnight to check it on cold / warm / hot again tomorrow. They said to expect the oil smoke to be present for another week or so at random on start ups as the oil is burned out of the system, and if the smoke continues for more than 2 weeks "there is a problem".

So its a suck it and see situation, if Porsche are not concerned at this stage then i guess i shouldnt be either.

The next issue i need to consider is that the dealer claimed the car had a full porsche service history, which it doesnt and only has a service stamp from themselves, so i am now unable to buy an extended porsche warranty unless i have a major service and 111 point inpecttion done by Porsche first (in total over £1600!).

Great first 2 days of Porsche ownership!

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ok, had the car for 1 week and hardly driven it at all.

Had an independent borescopy test done on the cylinders today - scored cylinder walls! Car has only got 6.4k miles on the clock, still spiting out smoke on start up.

This car has to be knackered doesnt it. No way is scored cylinder walls acceptable on a 1 week old user car with just 6.4k miles?

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allegedly it does have a warranty but having had the car for just 1 week it is getting rejected (for the 3rd time, the last 2 times they ignored me).

I am not having a £30k 6.4k miles cayman thats had to have a new engine and therefore devalued, not to mention the fact i'll be without a car for weeks

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its definitely getting rejected, i work for the police and if they try it on i will hault them over the coals, they also misrepresented the advert saying full porsche service history when it hasnt got one - they had better give me back my money!

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Durzel said:

Yeah, as above definitely reject it. It is unlikely the third-party warranty offered would cover the cost of repairs.

Incidentally what made you decide to get a boroscopy done? Were all of the cylinders scored?

it was more done to put my mind at ease and stop me being paranoid (well that was the plan!)

the dealer said they put too much oil in, but i was reading online about some known problems with mismatching pistons or valve guides issues as potential reasons for smoking on start up, so i really just wanted to get this test done to see if it was anything to do with that. A work colleague knows the guys at GT one (great guys) and we rang them for some initial advice about the smoke, and it was tehm who suggested they could do the borescope to put my mind at ease. Given the fact the dealer said they had over filled with oil, i dont think they expected to find any internal damage, but they did!

Not sure how many are scored, i will find out today when i get the pics.

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ok, well got the photos back from the borescopy (sp?) and ALL 6 CYLINDER WALLS were scored! On a 6.4k mile car!! God knows how.

I had the pics checked by Porsche and they confirmed engine is beyond repair, and took it to the dealers for a refund - they were excellent and didnt mess me about at all. I was really impressed and happy at how they dealt with it. The car is just 3 weeks out of porsche warranty being an 09 plate, so fingers crossed they will give him a new engine.

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here are the cylinder wall pics, all 6 of them!








I feel really sorry for the dealer now really as he has a fight with Porsche on his hands, the dealer with Cridfords in surrey and i must say that once i had evidence of an actual problem he was as good as gold and didnt mess me about at all.

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HoHoHo said:

Can anyone answer how the bores of all 6 cylinders end up in that state after 6500 miles?

Is it oil, driving as if you stole it from cold or what?

absolutely no idea, both porsche and the dealer were stunned when i showed them the pics. I had only managed to drive 130 miles in the ownership of just 1 week as it spent so much time being looked at by garages. It must surely be a manufacturing defect, with such a modern and new engine for it to be smashed to bits so quickly must be something more than low oil??