Cayman S engine failure and how Porsche will deal with you.
Discussion
Hi to all,
This is going to be a long opening to the thread and I hope Porsche are reading this. I think it reflects on them badly.
First off, I bought a brand new Porsche Cayman S in 2006, ran it in really carefully, treated it with kid gloves, main dealer serviced on time and low mileage but the smoking which started at about 15k hasn't stopped (I was told off the cuff at the dealership that these engines do smoke and burning some oil was usual). Only problem was the oil consumption kept rising to the point I had further investigations carried out and now I've authorised a strip down 2 cylinders (5 & 6) are heavily scored. This is on a car that had done just 28k careful miles on it and never been near a track. It was my weekend car and a treat to myself for working hard over the years.
Initially I wasn't up for the strip down as the Main Dealer wanted me to sign for a full rebuild at my expense before Porsche GB would even commit to any goodwill gesture and in any event an endascope (borescope) inspection had already found the damage and reason for the oil consumption. This was in March. Not wanting to damage the car further I left the vehicle with the dealership and started making enquiries.
Porsche GB were adamant that despite the fact that the Dealership had identified the problem they wouldn't commit to any goodwill gesture.
Obviously the car was now out of warranty and by virtue of moving house twice in the previous year or so I didn't receive or know about the extended warranty. Porsche have made no comment on this and still wouldn't commit to any figures. Until I authorised a strip down they would commit and the dealership wouldn't strip the car until I signed for a rebuild. It's what they call 'backing you into a corner'.
Off went a letter or two to Porsche GB but still the same response.
After this I start making my own investigations. Oh, this isn't such an uncommon problem, in fact a third party company has produced a rebarrelling kit to solve the problem at well below the cost Porsche is quoting me to rebuild. Problem is I can't make a decision of which way to jump as Porsche won't give a figure until I've stripped the engine.
OK, lets write to Porsche GmbH and excalate the issue. Maybe the parent Company will have something better to offer and will be less stonewalling in their attitude. Oh, was I wrong on this one! I sent letter and email after email asking if they had at least received my communication but I get zero replies. Ultimately I started telephoning Porsche in Germany and tracking down the right department. Yes, they have my letters, yes they have passed them on to Porsche AG and they are being discussed with Porsche GB and the Dealership (which came as news to them as they neever heard a peep from Porsche during this period). Okay then, I'll call Porsche AG. " We don't have that number" came the continued reply from Porsche GmbH. "Yes, were passed your letters and email on but we don't have any telephone numbers or contact names, we just don't have them" was their continued reply. Even convincing them I wasn't that gullible still got me the same response.
After 6 weeks I get a reply from Porsche GB who said they had discussed matter with Porsche in Germany but their answer remained the same. They even copy me an email which Porsche Germany supposedly sent to me (I never received any such reply, in fact no replies from Porsche GmbH at all).
One of use clearly has to budge and clearly Porsche have decided that it's NEVER going to be them. The DP at the dealership is however a bit more helpful and without the need to make a full commitment an engine strip down is authorised.
Just as thought, cylinders 5 & 6 totally shot - heavy bore wear. Nothing else to say, no reason behind the failure so they contact Porsche to see what goodwill they will offer. The upshot of all of this is that their goodwill gesture is now specifically calculated from the date when the engine is stripped down not from when I brought the car into the dealership for investigation. Porsche are prepared to stump up the parts but I'm starring down the barrels of a £4,000 bill, frankly for what I see as an engineering fault which has been plaguing the car for 2-3 years.
I write to Porsche GB again putting my case yet again (you bet I feel pretty strongly about this) and they write back today stating that they see no reason to move on the offer, oh and by the way, you've just 2 days to accept the offer or it will be withdrawn and another calculation made (let me say at this point, no one had ever said their offer was subject to an acceptance period).
Those I know who previously worked in the Porsche Dealership Channel are quite shocked at the change in Porsche customer care. When I first discussed these issues with them they were adamant that Porsche would make the repair without charge but more telephone calls outside of the channel is starting to show a different picture and what appears to be a quantum change in customer care.
It seems that Porsche can't see or don't want to see my side of the argument. This is an engineering fault and one that reared it's nasty little head 10k or maybe 15k miles ago. Don't get me wrong, cars need maintenance and some things inevitably wear out but I'm finding this isn't perhaps an isolated instances of bore wear and given the fact that it's been progressive I don't see why Porsche want me to pick up a considerable part of the bill. The only thing I'm guilty of is walking into a Porsche showroom and buying a brand new Cayman. It was a delight then but these feelings have now changed considerably and thoughts of another Porsche purchase (which once was strongly on the cards - a 4S) has evaporated.
Now that lot's on the table a few questions to get the thread rolling:
1. Cylinder wear on Cayman S Gen1 engines. Isolated instance or are there lots more that should make perspective purchasers wary of Porsche?
2. Are Porsche right (I don't think so)? Should I cheerfully accept the bill and go get my car back after missing it for 6 months.
What I think this all shows is a Company that wishes to keep it's clients at a distance. After 15 years running my own business I've never dealt with a Company who isn't prepared to go the extra mile for it's clients until now. I was told they would bend over backwards for me but it seems I'm bending over forwards for them. Is this the chiming bell that signifies all has changed at VW owned Porsche? It seems to me it is.
Where's the ownership feeling that driving a Porsche gives you? Mine's gone.
Update:
Porsche wouldn't shift. Had to swallow and accept the labour charges (I'm supposed to feel grateful!!!). Even a letter to Porsche Great Britain Ltd MD Geoff Turral came back with the same response (not directly from him although I was told he read it). They certainly seem to only see their side of the issue.
Pictures of the bore(s) attached (if this works)
This is going to be a long opening to the thread and I hope Porsche are reading this. I think it reflects on them badly.
First off, I bought a brand new Porsche Cayman S in 2006, ran it in really carefully, treated it with kid gloves, main dealer serviced on time and low mileage but the smoking which started at about 15k hasn't stopped (I was told off the cuff at the dealership that these engines do smoke and burning some oil was usual). Only problem was the oil consumption kept rising to the point I had further investigations carried out and now I've authorised a strip down 2 cylinders (5 & 6) are heavily scored. This is on a car that had done just 28k careful miles on it and never been near a track. It was my weekend car and a treat to myself for working hard over the years.
Initially I wasn't up for the strip down as the Main Dealer wanted me to sign for a full rebuild at my expense before Porsche GB would even commit to any goodwill gesture and in any event an endascope (borescope) inspection had already found the damage and reason for the oil consumption. This was in March. Not wanting to damage the car further I left the vehicle with the dealership and started making enquiries.
Porsche GB were adamant that despite the fact that the Dealership had identified the problem they wouldn't commit to any goodwill gesture.
Obviously the car was now out of warranty and by virtue of moving house twice in the previous year or so I didn't receive or know about the extended warranty. Porsche have made no comment on this and still wouldn't commit to any figures. Until I authorised a strip down they would commit and the dealership wouldn't strip the car until I signed for a rebuild. It's what they call 'backing you into a corner'.
Off went a letter or two to Porsche GB but still the same response.
After this I start making my own investigations. Oh, this isn't such an uncommon problem, in fact a third party company has produced a rebarrelling kit to solve the problem at well below the cost Porsche is quoting me to rebuild. Problem is I can't make a decision of which way to jump as Porsche won't give a figure until I've stripped the engine.
OK, lets write to Porsche GmbH and excalate the issue. Maybe the parent Company will have something better to offer and will be less stonewalling in their attitude. Oh, was I wrong on this one! I sent letter and email after email asking if they had at least received my communication but I get zero replies. Ultimately I started telephoning Porsche in Germany and tracking down the right department. Yes, they have my letters, yes they have passed them on to Porsche AG and they are being discussed with Porsche GB and the Dealership (which came as news to them as they neever heard a peep from Porsche during this period). Okay then, I'll call Porsche AG. " We don't have that number" came the continued reply from Porsche GmbH. "Yes, were passed your letters and email on but we don't have any telephone numbers or contact names, we just don't have them" was their continued reply. Even convincing them I wasn't that gullible still got me the same response.
After 6 weeks I get a reply from Porsche GB who said they had discussed matter with Porsche in Germany but their answer remained the same. They even copy me an email which Porsche Germany supposedly sent to me (I never received any such reply, in fact no replies from Porsche GmbH at all).
One of use clearly has to budge and clearly Porsche have decided that it's NEVER going to be them. The DP at the dealership is however a bit more helpful and without the need to make a full commitment an engine strip down is authorised.
Just as thought, cylinders 5 & 6 totally shot - heavy bore wear. Nothing else to say, no reason behind the failure so they contact Porsche to see what goodwill they will offer. The upshot of all of this is that their goodwill gesture is now specifically calculated from the date when the engine is stripped down not from when I brought the car into the dealership for investigation. Porsche are prepared to stump up the parts but I'm starring down the barrels of a £4,000 bill, frankly for what I see as an engineering fault which has been plaguing the car for 2-3 years.
I write to Porsche GB again putting my case yet again (you bet I feel pretty strongly about this) and they write back today stating that they see no reason to move on the offer, oh and by the way, you've just 2 days to accept the offer or it will be withdrawn and another calculation made (let me say at this point, no one had ever said their offer was subject to an acceptance period).
Those I know who previously worked in the Porsche Dealership Channel are quite shocked at the change in Porsche customer care. When I first discussed these issues with them they were adamant that Porsche would make the repair without charge but more telephone calls outside of the channel is starting to show a different picture and what appears to be a quantum change in customer care.
It seems that Porsche can't see or don't want to see my side of the argument. This is an engineering fault and one that reared it's nasty little head 10k or maybe 15k miles ago. Don't get me wrong, cars need maintenance and some things inevitably wear out but I'm finding this isn't perhaps an isolated instances of bore wear and given the fact that it's been progressive I don't see why Porsche want me to pick up a considerable part of the bill. The only thing I'm guilty of is walking into a Porsche showroom and buying a brand new Cayman. It was a delight then but these feelings have now changed considerably and thoughts of another Porsche purchase (which once was strongly on the cards - a 4S) has evaporated.
Now that lot's on the table a few questions to get the thread rolling:
1. Cylinder wear on Cayman S Gen1 engines. Isolated instance or are there lots more that should make perspective purchasers wary of Porsche?
2. Are Porsche right (I don't think so)? Should I cheerfully accept the bill and go get my car back after missing it for 6 months.
What I think this all shows is a Company that wishes to keep it's clients at a distance. After 15 years running my own business I've never dealt with a Company who isn't prepared to go the extra mile for it's clients until now. I was told they would bend over backwards for me but it seems I'm bending over forwards for them. Is this the chiming bell that signifies all has changed at VW owned Porsche? It seems to me it is.
Where's the ownership feeling that driving a Porsche gives you? Mine's gone.
Update:
Porsche wouldn't shift. Had to swallow and accept the labour charges (I'm supposed to feel grateful!!!). Even a letter to Porsche Great Britain Ltd MD Geoff Turral came back with the same response (not directly from him although I was told he read it). They certainly seem to only see their side of the issue.
Pictures of the bore(s) attached (if this works)
Edited by PistonBloke on Tuesday 27th September 20:27
Edited by PistonBloke on Thursday 13th October 14:22
Edited by PistonBloke on Thursday 13th October 14:35
colin 82 said:
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
I have to admit im slightly concerned.
Before driving you caymans and other Porsches do you guyd warm the car up etc for a period of time before setting off??
I've always started up and driven straight off just like the handbook suggests, but I keep the throttle very modest until the engine temp is up to normal i.e. treat the engine with respect. I visted the garage and took a look at the engine today, what a mess, actually all the pistons on one bank have been slapping the cylinder walls, bore 4 was moderate and has clearly only just started, but cyliders 5 & 6 are write offs in a big way. None of the engineers on-site could offer up much in the way of explanations apart from from possible oilway blockage (why - and why to all 3 cyliders?) and hence oil starvation to the bores. All piston rings were intact though and didn't seem damaged. The one mechanic was adamant that the piston slap was on the 'firing' side of the piston (his words not mine. I'm not an engineer by trade so I need to understand this in more detail before arriving at an answer to why.I have to admit im slightly concerned.
Before driving you caymans and other Porsches do you guyd warm the car up etc for a period of time before setting off??
mollytherocker said:
Smoking and using excessive oil due to oil getting past the piston rings.
MTR
I've visited the garage and taken a look at the engine. Actually all 3 cylinders in the one bank (cylinders 4,5 & 6)have been hitting the cylinder walls. All piston rings are intact and only one engineer could guess at the problem being blocked oil spray jets (all 3 - why?)MTR
Based on this, I've no confidence in a rebuild. The possibility is it will all happen again and I'm not going to dig into my pocket for a full no-goodwill rebuild, so my love affair with Porsche is over. The world is full of cars with better engines. I've also got a 3 litre BMW 5 series which drinks next to no oil (0.5 litre per 10,000 miles), is driven relatively hard for a 4 door saloon, has done close on 170k and never misses a beat. Frankly from good engineering it's what you expect. Even my old V6 Cavalier managed 175,000 miles before I parted with it and that didn't burn oil either. As an owner, I expect some parts to wear out but an engine should go bang at 28k (and I know it was smoking at 15k or lower so the problem started a long time ago). The world at Porsche seems to have changed for the worse. Why they don't stand up and be counted and stand by their engines (with their massive profit margins) is beyond me. They can still come out of a bad situation smelling of roses if only they would try.
ZeroH said:
Disgraceful attitude by Porsche but I'm less and less suprised these days - which OPC did you buy the car from out of interest ?
Solihull Porsche Centre. I wouldn't buy from them again notwithstanding the engine problems. The car wasn't prepared for handover and I had to return it to have the car/key programed to get into the boot. The sales guy tried it in the showroom and it didn't work so he operated it from inside the car. He knew there was a problem but still handed the car over. The keys are a joke as well, forever finding the car open!Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff