Picking up a 991 today for a ten day test

[RDMcG]

Well, here goes. All my prejudices are here. Electric steering, no handbrake,too big and so on. Being used to the edginess of the 997RS it should be interesting to see how it feels in the real world, not trying to set a record Ring time, but a mix of city and long distance driving. I will post impressions when I have had a chance to really get to know it.
Actually, in all honesty I am really interested to see how much progress has been made

[RDMcG]

I'm curious to see what its like as a real life road car, because that's its major market. Its always easy to do the "last real Porsche" refrain. The last real Porsche was the..umm...356 pre-A,2.7RS,993TT,996RS,997 4.0??..... I sometimes feel that its like an old movie where the old chaps are sittin' on the porch, whittlin' and chawin' baccy and reminiscing about them good old days.

So, I will not load my cassette of American Pie and head for the Drive-In, but try to see if this is a reasonable car that works in 2012. In any case, it has no cassette deck.

Damn.

[RDMcG]

Old Trout said:

8 track?

Its less 8 track-focused than road-focused I hear.

[RDMcG]

Well. let's start with the spec:

991S, with following options:

Lime gold paint
black leather
Premium package w/18 way seats
PDCC
Sport exhaust system
PDK
Light design package
Park assist
Sport Chrono
Electric sunroof
Power steering plus
Bose surround sound system
Sirius satellite radio, ( Its an NA car)
Electric folding mirrors
Sport design steering wheel.

Since Euro prices are different , the total delivered price is going to be irrelevant, but base price is $110K, delivered price $146K. I will report on the experience when I have a chance ......

[RDMcG]

VERY early impressions after a few miles:
It certainly feels big, and really refined. The whole "shut off at the stop" is vaguely Prius however, took it into some very,very twisty back roads. The flatness of the cornering feels almost clinical to me. Its the cornering that impresses though steering feel not so good. The good news is that I have a long trip (600 miles) with some twisties on it next week.
However, first sense is that it feels amszingly stiff. Much more appealing to the majority of buyers than the madness of the GT3RS that I favour.
I want to give it a really good long trip. Monday coming soon. I have a feeling that many will like it. As a non-God of driving I can see the broader appeal,with fewer of the historical compromises of the 911 ......

[RDMcG]

kingstondc5 said:

Do you think that coming from a GT3, the electric steering is not something your used to, hence why your initial impressions are that its not so good or do you think that by the end of the 10 days, your opinion/perception would have changed some what, regarding the electric steering?

Its a good question. I do not hate the 991 steering at all..its just not at all the same. Its not a fair comparison in total I think.

The RS is a car that turns you into a misanthrope. You don't want a passenger. At idle the Mezger sounds like ball bearings in a spin dryer, and then you get it up to 5000 RPM and the thing has one of the greatest sounds ever. You hunt for long tunnels, twisty roads and track days.
On the other hand, its not pleasant to potter along in heavy traffic, the seats are non adjustable, there are few creature comforts, and for the few non-enthusiast passengers a spirited drive on a rough road is as much fun as skateboarding down the stairs while wearing armour. It is a car that you want to drive intensely for a few hours at a time, not take on a quiet weekend tour of the countryside. As a result, it has somewhat limited utility and appeal. It will also bite the unwary. Handling on PS Cups on very cold or wet conditions is less than perfect. ( I have heard from posters here that the 996RS has even fewer compromises and is an even better track car).
In summary, its not for everyone. Edgy cars rarely are, or we would all be driving Caterhams

So far the 991 on the other hand is much more of a very good road car in this first appearance. The cornering is simply mind-blowing. Quite a lot to like . Great seats, I enjoy the PDK, with which I am familiar. I find the DFI engine very quiet though. Standard brakes are more than adequate for a quick stop. Decent sound system ( I never turn it on in the RS), a very well presented nav system. Tomorrow I taking a 500 mile run so should have a better feel then. My wife, ( who has driven standard forever and who had an XK140 when I met her), does not like the RS at all but very much likes the refinement of the 991 so far.
I think that the extra width on the front is gone to make a big difference as the next variant appears also. Probably a good idea to throw for book of 911 handling and driving and start again, because it feels so different. I all provide more detail as I get to know it. On first impression its a serious sports car when you want it thrash it but in regular driving is just great for loafing around.

Edited by RDMcG on Sunday 29th April 21:03

Edited by RDMcG on Sunday 29th April 21:03

[RDMcG]

The colour is..umm...challenging:



Side profile looks great and the 20" wheels balance it nicely.







Ugliest feature is the sunroof



Interior is hugely better. I much prefer the thicker steering wheel which is thankfully free from buttons. . There is a push fit to release the cupholders. It look alike aluminium but it plastic, feels cheap and shows every fingerprint. This is true for the trim strip on the doors also.
Germans do not have drive-ins for coffee of course, and Porsche is no different from the other German manufacturers in providing amusing cupholders.

You may argue that they should not exist, and you would be right, but the design process is interesting. What I call the PDK (PorscheDoppelKaffeholder) is an entertaining thing that looks like a set of handcuffs on sticks, and spring the coffee cup out there it can spill into the nav screen or on the Passengers's knees in one hits a bump. Best not used.

(Coffee cups added for illustration)





Rear seats fold down and provide useful parcel space. Unlike my RS the boot remains cool all the time.

Edited by RDMcG on Sunday 29th April 20:58

[RDMcG]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Its big, especially from the rear. It feels very big when you enter and the rake of the windscreen makes the forward view very spacious. OTOH, in bright sunlight you get an annoying reflection from the top of the dash onto the windscreen. RS experience is of course very subjective, and my take is compared to other cars I drive like my M6 is that its a lot edgier. I recall talking to Hans Stuck after he had tested an RS.1 at the NS, and he said" Jesus Christ! --this is a very ,very easy car to drive at 7/10. Try 9/10 and you have to be very,very good" . I have spun an RS.1 once at Spa and it happened very quickly, luckily with only ego damage. I am not a competitive driver, so to get the best out of one takes more talent than I have. I just love trying. The 991, on the other hand is incredibly forgiving. I took some corners on a private road last night at speeds that amazed me. Obviously the Mezger engine is in a class of its own. No idea what the 991 RS will get , but no Mezger.

In a way , the way to look at the 991 is as if you have never driven a Porsche before and see it as a new, unknown brand.

[RDMcG]

SFO said:

looks like 'your' 991S has Sports PASM .. the jutting out spoiler on the front being the tell tale sign, and the small gap between wheels and arches

It does. Will post pics of all controls when I take them.

[RDMcG]

FisiP1 said:

One day I learned to close that center flap between the drinks holders when they are deployed, and much stress has been avoided ever since.

I'm sure you already know that, and they are still pretty crap with it closed, but the memory makes me laugh every time I see it open like that.

I never actually use the things unless its when I am parked and grabbing a coffee. To be fair, I have equally ridiculous contraptions in other German cars. I have a feeling that all, the manufacturers have some sort of trade association..( Deutsche Kaffe Kuppen Gruppe? ) where they all sit around and guffaw at each other while wondering about the benighted foreigners who actually drink coffee in their cars

[RDMcG]

Did a 350 mile run today. Its quite strange..it seems to have two different personalities. In relaxed, auto, highway mode on a big US highway, it changes into 7th gear very quickly, at about 60 MPH or and likes to loaf along at 1900 RPM. In this mode it feels utterly different from any 911 I have driven..pleasant, smooth and relaxed. It does not advertise its other capabilities. Seats are immensely comfortable for long distance.Drop it into sport or sport plus and the while thing changes, becomes much more urgent , - (I was on highway today , so tomorrow will be the back roads.). Although I do not like the colour, four people talked to me and admired it.

It is amazingly easy on fuel. I got 600KM out os a tank in mixed driving over the past couple of days.

Niggles: the reflection of the top of the dash n the windscreen continues to be annoying, and there is also a bright reflection of trim on the driver's rise window like a streak.

Good things today: I fit four cases of wine into the boot and they remained completely cool although uninsulated.


It does not seem too big from the front..here is a white one:





Boot holds four cases of wine...not bad



As mentioned, the nav system shows up in the right hand display in front of the driver,,briefly before an exit or turn.Very tidy, this:



So far, it bears not the slightest resemblance to my RS, but its an impressive car in its own right.....

[RDMcG]

Pesty said:

I don't have a pipe and beard but in that picture the 993 wins on looks for me.

I'll take the RS though

I agree, There 993 always seemed to me to be the best resolved 911 design.

[RDMcG]

Pesty said:

I imagine by being a very good customer who buys a few cars from them.

I sometimes write articles for US magazines and even the odd Euro one. I had a fair sized article in Total 911 last year for instance. Obviously I also buy cars. Thus I sometimes get cars to review from various people. In the last few years I have had a mix of cars to try ..a Bentley Continental, CL63, Mini Vert,Electric Mitsubishi,BMW Alpina and so on.. The stuff I am posting here is really just background for an article I will write later

[RDMcG]

drpep said:

And that is what worries me, though as before, I will reserve final judgement for the GT3/RS versions if/when they arrive. My late 997 C2S was very much in the spirit of the GT3 which followed it. The C2S is a focused, driver oriented, traditionally compromised sports car; and that works for me. Personally I think it's a true credit to Porsche engineering that the 991 can do the 5 Series cosseting thing and also bear a genuinely sporting side. Personally however, that simply dilutes what would otherwise be a very very exciting car. As such, for now, "I'm ooot".

Its an interesting question. I went into this fairly prejudiced about the 991. At this stage it has grown on me. not as a GT3 replacement, but as a versatile, practical car that can be dialled in to produce superb performance when you want, but that can morph back into a refined car as required. If you asked me which car I would track, it would be the RS. On the other hand, if you asked me which car would I want to to take me for a week's holiday with my wife, the 991 would win easily. I sometimes find that reviews pile onto a specific item and it seems as if its much worse than it is is reality. For example BMW's iDrive was blasted to hell, and in fact it took me 15t minutes to learn it. Equally I think the steering issue is worth discussing, but after a couple of days, I do not find myself thinking about it. RS steering is hyper communicative, and as such perfect for track, but I don't need to be engaged at that level with the car every second.

There will obviously be edgy version later, and the extra width on the front among other things should produce some formidable performers. Its very valid for those who want the really edgy cars to be a tad wary, but I am looking forward to see what they do with the 991 as it develops. As it it, it will have a much broader appeal to buyers who would not normally consider the 911, while still retaining the sportiness for those who want to use it. My prediction is that 95% of buyers will go PDK. Like Ferrari fans who bemoaned the passing of the open gate gearbox, the M fans who miss the manual on the M6, there is a wind of change blowing. I am not sure how the RS/Turbo etc will be specced, but I think the number of people who actually buy manual cars is declining very quickly. I will keep my current manual cars indefinitely, but I have had an SMG M6 for years, and have no doubt that my next Porsche will be PDK whenever that is.

The thing I do not understand is launch control. I have it on the M6 and have never used it. Nor would I on a Porsche. Its just an unnatural act for me, as I do not start from a grid position in the morning.
Running the 991 hard is still very,very satisfying, and certainly a comparison with a GT3 is taking the base car of the new generation with the least civilized version of the last. ( Most people I know outside the car community have absolutely no desire to own a GT3. Its just too noisy,harsh and generally aggressive. For people who have always tracked cars it may be a bit tame, but we are talking a tiny majority of the car buying population).

Your point is completely valid, which is why I find this week so interesting. I can't help it though....the car is growing on me

Edited by RDMcG on Monday 30th April 23:44

[RDMcG]

JW911 said:

Interesting reading. I have yet to drive a 991 but I have sat in one and as a 996 Turbo owner, the 991 just seems too damned big.

Ok, the little tank maybe taking things a bit too far but one of the reasons I like 911s is the fact that they are that little bit smaller (and hence more practically useable) than the competition.

The much steeper rake of the windscreen puts a lot of space in front of you, so it does seem big initially. My experience was that I got used to it quickly. The steering and cornering are so different that its a whole new ballgame. I think there will be those who will legitimately not get it, but others who will love it. It feels like the air-cooled period again when there were very good arguments about the 993-996 transition.

One interesting question for me is how they will build the track-only versions. The road car is perfectly balanced visually with the 20" wheels which fill the arches very nicely. However, if regs require 18s I wonder how it will look.

[RDMcG]

A few more impressions. Took a few backroads I know, dry conditions, and put the full Sport + mode on, PDK only. It is quite transformative. Cornering is much more like a good mid-engined car than a 911, and it is very good. My RS might make it a the same speed, but the difference is that it would take a lot more skill to do it. The dual personality of the car is impressive. I think that Porsche managed to almost defeat the laws of physics with my own car, but on the 991 they simply used them. Its pretty easy to get the tail out my car, very difficult on the 991.
I will post some more pics and thoughts in the next few days, and also take a couple of the same drives in my own car to be able to get an immediate contrast.

[RDMcG]

Now., some detail shots. The interior is really very well executed and feels like a quality product, apart from my previous comments about the cheap feel of the door of the upholders, as with previous cars. My single real irritation is the reflectiveness of the dash top on the windscreen...I hope they build the 991RS with a zeoo-reflective dash as the leather has a sheen in bright sunlight.
The contrast with an RS is of course, extreme, where Porsche tried to reduce the RS to the simplicity of a monk's cell ,whereas the and to bring the 991 has a feel of being very current. One caveat for me is that the electronics will become obsolete as they have with every car I have owned since about 1998, but for now, they are great.

Seat controls are infinite with nice switch gear -seats very comfortable for long distance with adjustable side bolsters.



Dash display is very crisp, especially the electronic displays





Centre console is well organized and intuitive, though If you smoke in your car ( I never do) the ashtray is so far back on the console that you need very short arms.






Door handles quite elegant



I love the thick steering wheel, and ordered it as an option when I bought my RS.2



My RS interior

Interior is overall a delightful place to be:



My RS interior

[RDMcG]

Exterior

I think the side profile is superb, nicest ever


Headlights look a bit pop eyed to me:



Rear end has come in for a bit of criticism. My sense is that if the tail lights were a bit bigger this might improve



New LEDs replace the old dots and look good

[RDMcG]

and then of course it the sense that its too big. I am getting used to it very quickly and it does not feel big, though the RS does feel small..this is not a new thing and occurs every generation...






On the other hand, my RS.1 compared to prior generations...well....was not small:





However, its fairly light and I do not feel the car as being big when I throw it around, unlike the impression when I enter it.

[RDMcG]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Absolutely understand that, and the Cayman ( especially the R) is a great sports car. I have no real insight into Porsche's thinking but my guess is that the demographic for the Caymans skews to either track people or a younger buyer. However, moving the engine forward and widening the front of the 991 have created a platform with a lot of opportunity. Compared to the ratty 911S I drove many years ago everything feels big.

I think its key to know why you are buying a car, and we are all different. I find the 997 fine, and obviously small compared to my more road focused cars like the M6, so I may be the wrong person to make that call. Seriously though, there is no right answer here. I am going to keep my RS.1 and 2 pretty much infinitely and they represent for me the ultimate development of the primarily mechanical,high-revving, manual shift-only era of Porsche for road use. The 991 is so different that I do not regard it as a successor to the 997 in a linear fashion any more than the E type Jag was a logical development of the XK150.

However,car companies are in business to make money, and for Porsche the 991 is threading the needle...too far to the traditionalists will not expand the appeal and too far to luxury will dilute the brand. My guess is that 95% of the people who buy a 991 have never even sat in.let alone driven a 911S........