Problem of premature failure of PCCB ceramic brakes

[jimmy348]

My PCCB ceramic brake rotors burned out prematurely at 12,000 miles. The repair cost me $10,000 because Porsche refused to honor their warranty. Has anyone else had to replace their PCCB rotors?

For those of you looking for more details, I have described my experience at length in a blog post at http://jimmy348.blogspot.com/.

[jimmy348]

mrdemon said:

PCCB are awesome imo.

People seem to hoon about on track days thinking they are Unbreakable.

I have seen people ask for warranty when they have melted pads and blacking plates, because the disks can take the heat again people misuse them and cook the pads etc.

Here is what Porsche promised me in the sales literature: “The discs are made from a specially treated carbon-fiber compound that is silicated in a high-vacuum process at 3,092°F. The resulting material is not only much harder than metal- it is also more resistant to heat.” Yet my rotors ended up failing because of excessive heat caused by interventions from the car's computers. My blog explains all of this.

A $10,000 repair bill is not trivial for me. Therefore, I'm saying caveat emptor when it comes to PCCB.

[jimmy348]

Glenn McMenamin said:

Bottom line, brakes are consumables, I don't 'think' Porsche advertise the benefits of PCCB for track use any more, so personally, I think you're on a loser there I'm afraid.

I would suggest you get some steel discs fitted for now, which still be good on track, but a lot cheaper to replace going forward. Put the ceramics in a box, and put back on the car come trade in time.

G.

Edited by Glenn McMenamin on Saturday 12th April 15:38

Correct. Porsche no longer promotes heat resistance and also warns about damage from track use. So the question is this: why pay for PCCB if you're just going to store them in a box till it's time to sell? They will depreciate along with the rest of the car, so all you're doing is increasing Porsche's already fat profit margins.

[jimmy348]

ChrisW. said:

Jimmy, the PCCB brakes do what it says on the tin.

I'm sorry if I appear blunt, but I'm weary of your motive ...

I'm not sure what you think my motive is, but if your read my post my motive is clearly stated: "to make my experience public, so that others might learn from my misfortune. If my story helps even one of you avoid a painful and expensive experience with PCCB, I will consider the effort to write this post well worth it."

You are obviously not among those who will benefit from my warning, but others surely will be.

[jimmy348]

ChrisW. said:

A 25 minute race would be around 45 miles ... so this could be a very full racing year ?

First, I wasn't racing. Second, I feel Porsche lied to me in the sales literature. If they had been honest (as they sort of are in the current brochures), I would say that I had received fair warning. But they weren't, and I didn't get to make an informed decision. Those who are following this thread will get a chance to evaluate all of the inputs and make the decision that's best for them. For me PCCB is a no go.

[jimmy348]

fioran0 said:

PCCB rotors oxidise at 750 deg. At this temp the carbon in the rotor bonds with oxygen and literally floats away.
There are plenty of race pads available for metal rotors that can do 750 deg and above. Metal rotors with a proper pad can deal with temps in excess of that which PCCB can.

PCCB is limited to stock pad choice (or the new RSC1 which is apparently PCCB safe, btw its horrible). With metal rotors you have plenty of pad options. Many of these pads offer a much higher friction coefficient than the PCCB pad meaning that stopping power is far greater than on PCCB.
So with an appropriate pad change out, metal rotors can take higher heat and stop faster than PCCB.

Modulation and release is poor with PCCB. Response also changes continually with temp change leaving you completely unsure what response will ever be. Metal rotors and an appropriate pad will give better modulation and release and provide almost linear response.

Edited by fioran0 on Saturday 12th April 23:53

Yours has been the most informative and helpful reply yet. I've saved it for future reference. Thanks for your input.

[jimmy348]

Harris_I said:

I think you have not got the hang of this Pistonheads thing, Neil. Best not to focus on facts which are empirically provable. May I suggest you take your trousers off and sit in front of your PC shouting loudly at other internet users.

Hilarious. Right on.

[jimmy348]

mrdemon said:

Real "race pads" of which some talk about are about as much use as cheese for road use.
Those are the facts, and if any one wants to see 1st hand what each car can do pm me and I,ll take you out in both back to back.

Edited by mrdemon on Sunday 13th April 00:38

I wish I could, but I'm in California. :-)

[jimmy348]

ChrisW. said:

I assume that Jimmy was hoping that Porsche would just replace them .. but they don't replace any consumable items. And most of us understand why ...

I'm sure it must say somewhere that driving style will influence rates of wear ??

To paraphrase Goldfinger, once is an accident, twice is coincidence and third time is enemy action.

Chris, this is your third comment on my post. In each one, you take great pains to defend Porsche and also to attack me. Based on this, I must conclude that you are a paid shill in the employ of Porsche. Your assignment is to defend Porsche and its products by all means available and to try to discredit any critics.

Now that you have been unmasked, perhaps you’ll do us the kindness of packing up your keyboard and Internet connection and moving off to parts unknown.

[jimmy348]

This thread seems to have run its course. So I would like to thank everyone for their contribution.

As a final comment, I’d like to clear up a misconception some responders seemed to have. My motive was never about my warranty dispute with Porsche. That issue is water over the dam. Instead, my purpose has been to try to determine how widespread is the failure of PCCB rotors and also to alert others of the risks associated with them.

As for me, my path is clear. A pair of replacement PCCB rotors cost $8000. The same rotors in steel are around $400. In my mind, PCCB are not 20 times as good as steel. Therefore, I intend to vote with my checkbook. Until Porsche installs brake temperature sensors and an on-off switch for torque vectoring, I intend to take my business elsewhere.

Porsche’s competitors already offer or will soon release some worthy alternatives; e.g. Jaguar F-type, the next generation Audi R-8 and McLaren 650S and P13. I am particularly excited about the Mercedes-AMG GT. Its interior looks stunning (http://tinyurl.com/mxmv5pj)