Has anyone changed their 9x7 for a 993/964 or older?

[BillTheButcher]

My 987 Cayman S is a fantastic car but I want something a bit more visceral and raw.

My options are:

1. Modify my car.
2. Change it for something more extreme of the same era, e.g. 997 GT3/987 Cayman R.
3. Change it for something older and more analogue (for want of a better term), e.g. 996 GT3/older C2.

I'd been focussing on 1. and 2. but with the way GT3 prices are going I've started looking at older alternatives that might offer a similar level of involvement; the 993 and 964 have caught my attention.

Has anyone on here changed from a 9x7 (Boxster/Cayman/911) to a 993/964 or older? If so what, if anything, did you miss from the newer car?

As much as I like the interior of my 987 I could live with a far more basic cabin as long as it had AC.

In before "the only way to know is to drive them all" comments. That's a given. I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts while I wait for the funds to become available.

[BillTheButcher]

Thanks for the replies.

Gordo997 said:

I went from a 997.2 C2S back to a 993 ( weekend car) plus an MX5 as my daily driver and have no regrets. Yes, the 997 was another step on in terms of performance but it was all just a bit too refined and clinical. Each to their own but I much prefer the air cooled cars which have more character and better build quality. The 997 is a well built modern car but the 993 and the 3.2 Carrera I had a few years earlier are in a different league imho. The 993 C2 man for me is the best of both worlds as you get the character but also pretty good performance too even if not on par with the water cooled cars.

I've only had a brief passenger ride in a 997 C2 but I felt the same way as you did - it was a lovely car but a bit too refined.

RB_987s said:

Not sure how "old school" you want to go but have a think about a 996 turbo. I moved from a Cayman S to a 996tt for the same reasons - much more mechanical etc

I part-exchanged my 996 Turbo for the Cayman S I have now. The Turbo was a massively capable car but I found it uninvolving at legal speeds.

Koln-RS said:

Depends. Some people drive a really nice 'old school' 911 and are smitten for life.

Others maybe drive a poor example or miss the conveniences of the current cars and just don't get it.

Ideally, you would have an aircooled and a modern for the best of both worlds.

A nice 993 is a pretty good compromise though.

I suspect I'd miss a few mod cons if I went any older than a 964 (and maybe even that would be too far for me).

vimal said:

I went from a 997 turbo to a 3.2 carrera and now also have a 993. The old cars seem a lot more special. The 3.2 is a lot less comfortable but much more involving (I drive in Central London and heavy clutch and no power steering is very noticeable). The 993 is the best compromise - special to drive and with mod cons like power steering. It's also good not to worry about depreciation - I bought my 997 new and was very conscious of the fact that I was not using it enough to justify the cost. The main downside of the old cars is that I am a lot more precious about them. - parking etc and security. The 997 was easily replaceable and had great security, the old ones are not easily replaceable at all. I would also find it harder to use one of the old ones for long distances - whereas the turbo was perfect for that. Having said that I know that lots of people take their old ones to Europe etc - so this is more a personal thing. The other downside is that I would find it hard to part with either old car - there is a connection which you don't get with the new ones no matter how amazing the performance/ technology.

Thanks. Very interesting.

halfpenny43 said:

Almost a year ago I traded my 2006 987 Cayman S in for 1997 993 Carrera 2.

It's my only car and although I don't use it everyday and we have the wife's Mini Countryman also, I consider it my "daily driver"

What do I miss ? Absolutely nothing.
Having previously owned a 964 years ago, I wanted to get back in to an aircooled 911 and always for as long as I can remember wanted a 993. For me - it is the perfect 911 shape.

My car does have aircon, but to be honest I rarely use it, driving everywhere with the sunroof open.

I once described my 993 as being more "agricultural" than the Cayman - meaning not in terms of performance but everything just feels more solid - to use your better choice of word - "visceral".

I have no regrets but just get the best car you can afford and realise that it may cost you more to run than your Cayman.

I got mine from an OPC here in the Netherlands, and it was a low mileage allegedly "rust free" car. I recently spent a large chunk of cash having the windscreen surround cut out and replaced due to rust which was causing the front footwells to fill with water when it rained.
So don't think that just because your buying from an OPC your guaranteed a "good" car.
I also replaced the engine mounts, springs and shocks, upgraded the headlamps to HID bulbs and am generally kept busier keeping it in tip top shape than I did the Cayman.

But for me - it's my dream car. I love it.

Life is too short to think "should I". And if you do it and do t like it - chances are you will be able to a 993 / 964 on and get back into something more modern.

That's really useful info. Thanks very much.

[BillTheButcher]

Schnellmann said:

Finding a nice C2 is getting difficult though.

Indeed. There's one with good provenance for sale at the moment but I'm sure it'll be gone by the time I've got the funds to buy it.

[BillTheButcher]

Koln-RS said:

From what I understand the specific difficulty is finding a 993 that meets all the current preferred criteria:
- C2/C4
- Coupe
- Manual 6-spd
- Varioram
- Fairly Low mileage
- Excellent, original condition
- Full service history
- Nice colour combination
- Etc, etc

If you don't mind mileage, cabs, targas, tiptronics.... then there's a wider choice

I'm not bothered about mileage but I think it would have to be a manual C2 coupe. I don't like the look of the cabriolet or the targa.

I'd guess that Varioram would be preferable but I'd need to drive both to see what difference there was.

[BillTheButcher]

jackal said:

Ive done 5 big road trips in the last 3 years and id say, for the most fun, the very best 911's are a sorted 993 and a sorted 964, no question.

Some of the older cars are as much fun arguably but then at times, not quick enough and not robust enough either.

Some of the newer cars are fun too but you need to be going so much faster to achieve that and ultimately they are not as much fun quite so often. The pleasure derived rom their controls also takes a significant hit.

Its nice to own and try all flavours of course but for smiles per mile i would say the 93 and 64 are the sweet spot and will never be bettered.

Thanks. I was hoping you'd comment.

Wozy68 said:

I wouldn't be bothered with mileage either. I was looking through the window of a parked 993 the other day and the mileage was at 99930 ..... I'm guessing the owner was sweating a little, basically it will be worthless in less than 100 miles time.

Keep an open mind with the non vario v vario engines. I tried a Vario first and to me it felt a little too accomplished but still fab.
In the end I bought a non vario car, for no other reason than the right 993 spec/history for me came along and it happened to have the earlier engine. What I do like about the non vario cars though, is the shove you get at around 5K RPM, the 993 just seems to really take off, and I love it

The greatest thing about a 993 compared to the 964 is that NVH in the 993 is on a different level compared to the 964. You can't make the 964 any easier to live with, but you can make a 993 more 'sporty'.

Thank you.

SimC said:

Went from a 997 gts to a 964. Had them both for a couple of months and the gts didn't get a look in. After driving the 964 for a year tinkering and improving,went to Le Mans in a mates 997 sport classic. It was beautiful to look at but boring unless you were on it at silly speeds. Too refined.
Try one and unless you need to do high mileage you won't look back.

MrVert said:

Yep, sure have.

Had a Boxster S, then a 450bhp 993 Turbo, then on to a 997 GT3.

In March this year, sold the GT3 and went to a much older 911, see pic in my profile.

It's just so much more fun more of the time. It's quite heavily modified, all the work was done by Tuthills and it's been completely rebuilt and had new paint so it's like a new car.

Absolutely love it. The sensations it gives are just wonderful. I felt that in the GT you had to be doing silly speeds before you even got any where near its limits. In the replacement it's much easier to get to the limit at lower speeds and therefore have more fun, more of the time.

What do I miss? Satnav. A/C. That's about it to be honest.

Drive a few. Buy the best you can afford. I personally don't regret it but they're not for everyone.

Good luck! The search is all part of the fun!

Thanks.

All of the comments so far are getting me very excited about trying a 993 and a 964, particularly a 993.

I thought for years that what I wanted out of a car was rampant straight-line acceleration in an unassuming shell. That's how I ended up working my way through a succession of progressively more powerful saloons and estates.

But within a few weeks of buying each car I'd be frustrated with some aspect of it and I'd already be browsing the classifieds and scouring owners' forums for its replacement.

The main reason that I'm thinking about changing this time is because I'll have a bit of money to put into a car (and I might not be able to do that again for a while) that I'm hoping to keep for a good while.

The Cayman S is quick enough for me and it's really good fun at road speeds but I'd like more noise, more immediacy, more involvement...

To refer back to my original points...

I might be way off on this but I'm not sure the Cayman R will be different enough to what I've got now to warrant changing it.

The escalating price of 997 GT3s (and comments I've read from owners like MrVert above about how fast you have to be going to explore the car's limits) are putting them out of reach anyway.

So that leaves me with modifying my Cayman S or getting an older car.

Thank you all again for taking the time to respond. These are exactly the kind of replies I was hoping for.

[BillTheButcher]

Geneve said:

I can’t tell you what might suit you, but IMO the 993 is the best variant for the traditional, original ‘911 feel’ with most modern conveniences. And, the two nicest examples I ever drove were, interestingly, 6-spd, C4, Variorams. Both were narrow body coupes - one I drove on road and track some 10 years ago, and then another very recently. Both felt very tight and together with a very well connected front end, and as much fun on the road as any GT3.

High praise indeed.

Geneve said:

Of course there will be some compromises, going back 15 -20 years in time, but if you buy well and look after it you should have a lot of fun and not lose money.

I think I could live with an older car as long as it started when I needed it to and it had a few "modern" features like AC.