How safe are air cooled 911s in a crash?
Discussion
Following from a thread in GG regarding the relative safety of rear engined cars in a head on crash, I was wondering if there was any footage or evidence of how well air cooled 911s fared.
Obviously if my first concern was safety, I'd be looking at Volvo's and the like, but it is interesting to know how well (or not) these cars may fare
Obviously if my first concern was safety, I'd be looking at Volvo's and the like, but it is interesting to know how well (or not) these cars may fare
Talksteer said:
The lack of an engine up front is a positive from a crash point of view as you can use all of the front to crumple without having to work around the incompressible engine block.
The 964 and 993 are also quite dense cars being relatively heavy for their small exterior dimensions.
However don't let that kid you. Pre late nineties cars simply weren't designed for the offset impact test ands colliding one with a modern car oz going to see you come off much worse. Modern cars have lateral beams that transmit crash loads to the unimpacted side so as you see in the old vs new videos it's essentially a two vs one impact for the crash structures in the nose. This is what lets the modern car penetrate all the way into the cabin of the old car.
Also unless you fit race seats and harnesses you will feel the lack of airbags. Even the 90's models give a lot away to the modern cars, particularly in side impacts where airbags arguably make an even bigger difference.
Finally as a low vehicle there is a good chance that your car will simply be overriden by much higher modern vehicles. The bumper of an off roader will simply crunch straight through your bonnet and lights without making contact with any of your crash structures. A side impact doesn't bear thinking about.
That said a cage and some good seats and harnesses and you'd probably be pretty safe on a track!
Despite how 'solid' the 993 feels, as some have mentioned, we shouldn't get a false sense of security over how safe it is.The 964 and 993 are also quite dense cars being relatively heavy for their small exterior dimensions.
However don't let that kid you. Pre late nineties cars simply weren't designed for the offset impact test ands colliding one with a modern car oz going to see you come off much worse. Modern cars have lateral beams that transmit crash loads to the unimpacted side so as you see in the old vs new videos it's essentially a two vs one impact for the crash structures in the nose. This is what lets the modern car penetrate all the way into the cabin of the old car.
Also unless you fit race seats and harnesses you will feel the lack of airbags. Even the 90's models give a lot away to the modern cars, particularly in side impacts where airbags arguably make an even bigger difference.
Finally as a low vehicle there is a good chance that your car will simply be overriden by much higher modern vehicles. The bumper of an off roader will simply crunch straight through your bonnet and lights without making contact with any of your crash structures. A side impact doesn't bear thinking about.
That said a cage and some good seats and harnesses and you'd probably be pretty safe on a track!
I have tried searching for results before on the net but struggled to find anything.
It does make you wonder though, that despite not having an engine in the way which would reduce the energy absorption abilities, how much safety knowledge and design was there when the 993 was being developed?
Also, what difference does it make if the car is seam welded (I believe the RS models were)?
Ken Sington said:
Height is also a worrying issue. I noticed that when my 993 is parked next to my daily, which is an SUV, the highest point of the 993's roofline just reaches the bottom of the SUV's side windows.
Agree with this. It's surprising just how small these cars are against modern carsPickled Piper said:
I worked in the field of crash testing for several years. I am a bit out of date. Back in the late eighties and early nineties Porsche vehicles were considered to be amongst the most crashworthy vehicles on the market. I witnessed some crash tests for a couple of models. They far exceeded the legal minimum requirement. They had and I believe, still do, extremely well Engineered and crash worthy structures. They were renowned for maintaining the integrity of the passenger compartment in some very severe crash scenarios.
From your experience are you suggesting that they could be as strong as a contemporary mercedes e class or volvo 700 series?That would be quite impressive if it was the case.
To me, one interesting thing about the 993 is the weight. I think the quoted weight is something like 1385kg whereas a saab 9000 from the same era had a similar quoted weight. On this basis, it does seem that for a small car it was heavy and probably due to the thicker guage metal being used (as i understand).
I'm sure someone will correct me on this
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