964RS Race Car - What's it worth?
Discussion
Apologies for yet another 'what's it worth' thread, but this one is a bit more unusual...
A friend has a genuine 964RS Lightweight that I believe was supplied directly to Exclusively Nine, a Porsche Specialist in the North, in 1992. It was never registered with DVLA. It was stripped out and race prepared. In it's maiden year (1992) Craig Simmiss won the British Porsche Supercup series, which appears to have been a Porsche series with different models taking part, similar to the latter Porsche Open series (Not to be confused with the one make/model Supercup or Carrera Cup Series for Cup Cars).
It was later modified, engine rebuilt and supercharged. It was changed from it's original Rubystone paint to Mint Green. It was then raced in the Porsche Open Series, Intermarque and some other open championship races. At some stage the original engine was replaced, so it is not a 'matching numbers' car. As with all race cars, it has been a little battle scarred but was repaired by a Porsche Approved Body Repair Specialist, whom the driver had a sponsorship deal with. Following its last race, the car was parked and due to a number of reasons, has been laid up for about 8 years in a dry, warm garage.
My friend is looking to move the car on and we have been discussing how to value it. Clearly, it will not appeal to anyone looking for a straight, unmolested garage queen/road car. It could be purchased by someone looking for a very quick track day toy, which with a few minor alterations, could be road registered and driven to the circuits. Alternatively it may appeal to someone looking for a project and perhaps take it back to it's original race spec. We were made aware of a magazine write up on the car following it's Supercup Championship win (it featured in a six page spread in 911&Porsche World in March/April 1993 edition).
It is RHD so must have been one of a very limited number of cars? How many RHD RS's came to the UK?
Your thoughts please?!
A friend has a genuine 964RS Lightweight that I believe was supplied directly to Exclusively Nine, a Porsche Specialist in the North, in 1992. It was never registered with DVLA. It was stripped out and race prepared. In it's maiden year (1992) Craig Simmiss won the British Porsche Supercup series, which appears to have been a Porsche series with different models taking part, similar to the latter Porsche Open series (Not to be confused with the one make/model Supercup or Carrera Cup Series for Cup Cars).
It was later modified, engine rebuilt and supercharged. It was changed from it's original Rubystone paint to Mint Green. It was then raced in the Porsche Open Series, Intermarque and some other open championship races. At some stage the original engine was replaced, so it is not a 'matching numbers' car. As with all race cars, it has been a little battle scarred but was repaired by a Porsche Approved Body Repair Specialist, whom the driver had a sponsorship deal with. Following its last race, the car was parked and due to a number of reasons, has been laid up for about 8 years in a dry, warm garage.
My friend is looking to move the car on and we have been discussing how to value it. Clearly, it will not appeal to anyone looking for a straight, unmolested garage queen/road car. It could be purchased by someone looking for a very quick track day toy, which with a few minor alterations, could be road registered and driven to the circuits. Alternatively it may appeal to someone looking for a project and perhaps take it back to it's original race spec. We were made aware of a magazine write up on the car following it's Supercup Championship win (it featured in a six page spread in 911&Porsche World in March/April 1993 edition).
It is RHD so must have been one of a very limited number of cars? How many RHD RS's came to the UK?
Your thoughts please?!
Koln-RS said:
In the current 'bullish' climate, an auction might be the best place to get the best and fairest price and its true 'value'.
The NEC Autosport International auction (Coys I think) would be a good choice.
It will get an international audience, informed buyers, and a timescale that would enable it to be correctly presented.
He might get offers in the meantime, but anyone serious would also bid at auction.
Yeah thanks, that was mentioned as an idea. The NEC Autosport International auction (Coys I think) would be a good choice.
It will get an international audience, informed buyers, and a timescale that would enable it to be correctly presented.
He might get offers in the meantime, but anyone serious would also bid at auction.
Steve Rance said:
Te condition of the car is very important. I have an ex UK Carrera cup 993 which i fully restored. The car looked great when I bought it but I knew what to expect. After it was acid dipped, it was clear that a lifetime of racing had taken a toll on the car and wings, rear quarters, inner sills and even the roof needed replacing along with the Ali bonnet and engine cover. I short, just about every panel on the car was replaced along with a complete overhaul of the engine, gearbox and running gear. As you can imagine, the restoration cost was considerably higher than the purchase price.
Ex racing cars are generally a bit of a poison challace. Great for history and provenance but they have a hard life. when they start their life in the higher formulae budgets tend to be reasonable and repairs/refreshes are done to a decent standard and to recommended lifing of components. As the car is sold on and no longer competitive in higher formulae, budgets, tend to be a lot lower and repairs tend to be 'practical' rather than asthetic. And generally, if they wont make the car go faster, they don't get done. So unless you have a car that has been through this loop and is now legible for historic racing - and therefore once again been lavished with high running budgets, it's likely to need a lot of work - possible a total rebuild/restoration to make it seriously attractive to a knowlegible buyer.
Your best bet may be to look at the historic reg's and see what categories (if any ) the car can compete in and if so, how competitive it might be. If it can and is, you will find a buyer for good money.
Thanks Steve, definitely food for thought. The car actually seems pretty sound, but as you say, until it is stripped back, you never really can tell what the shell is like underneath. If I bought it, I think I would enjoy it for a bit in it's modified form, seems a waste not to have some fun before any potential restoration... Ex racing cars are generally a bit of a poison challace. Great for history and provenance but they have a hard life. when they start their life in the higher formulae budgets tend to be reasonable and repairs/refreshes are done to a decent standard and to recommended lifing of components. As the car is sold on and no longer competitive in higher formulae, budgets, tend to be a lot lower and repairs tend to be 'practical' rather than asthetic. And generally, if they wont make the car go faster, they don't get done. So unless you have a car that has been through this loop and is now legible for historic racing - and therefore once again been lavished with high running budgets, it's likely to need a lot of work - possible a total rebuild/restoration to make it seriously attractive to a knowlegible buyer.
Your best bet may be to look at the historic reg's and see what categories (if any ) the car can compete in and if so, how competitive it might be. If it can and is, you will find a buyer for good money.
Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 27th September 15:12
graemel said:
Does Dave Lease still own it.
We use to race against each other in the Open and the Intermarque.
Yes it is David Lees car. What were you racing? I used to help David at some of the race weekends. It was good fun. Brought back some good memories viewing the car again last week. I would love to buy it, but don't think the Mrs would be best pleased ! We use to race against each other in the Open and the Intermarque.
graemel said:
stroller said:
Yes it is David Lees car. What were you racing? I used to help David at some of the race weekends. It was good fun. Brought back some good memories viewing the car again last week. I would love to buy it, but don't think the Mrs would be best pleased !
Narrow bodied 3.2 Carrera with a 3.3 turbo engine. Iris blue metallic. We had some very close races. I had more outright speed but Dave had better brakes and handling. I'd say, buy it if it is reasonable money. You only live once
wildman0609 said:
I found this image with it in the back ground
I have an interest in this thread, because my Dad (Ray Hollyman) used to race in the intermarque and Porsche open around the same time in a similar car, his is a Porsche 964 cup, with wide body work and a turbo. He still has it, we've been testing it with a plan to getting it racing again next year.
I have an other similar car, that started life as an RS, then got written off and re shelled with an unregistered shell from porsche in 1996, and has now been a race car the rest of its life. unfortunately it doesn't have an RS chassis number so don't imagine its worth very much.
Very interesting, what series are you planning to race in next year? Would be interested to see pics of your cars. Any other period photo's?!I have an interest in this thread, because my Dad (Ray Hollyman) used to race in the intermarque and Porsche open around the same time in a similar car, his is a Porsche 964 cup, with wide body work and a turbo. He still has it, we've been testing it with a plan to getting it racing again next year.
I have an other similar car, that started life as an RS, then got written off and re shelled with an unregistered shell from porsche in 1996, and has now been a race car the rest of its life. unfortunately it doesn't have an RS chassis number so don't imagine its worth very much.
wildman0609 said:
I found this image with it in the back ground
I have an interest in this thread, because my Dad (Ray Hollyman) used to race in the intermarque and Porsche open around the same time in a similar car, his is a Porsche 964 cup, with wide body work and a turbo. He still has it, we've been testing it with a plan to getting it racing again next year.
I have an other similar car, that started life as an RS, then got written off and re shelled with an unregistered shell from porsche in 1996, and has now been a race car the rest of its life. unfortunately it doesn't have an RS chassis number so don't imagine its worth very much.
Very interesting, what series are you planning to race in next year? Would be interested to see pics of your cars. Any other period photo's?!I have an interest in this thread, because my Dad (Ray Hollyman) used to race in the intermarque and Porsche open around the same time in a similar car, his is a Porsche 964 cup, with wide body work and a turbo. He still has it, we've been testing it with a plan to getting it racing again next year.
I have an other similar car, that started life as an RS, then got written off and re shelled with an unregistered shell from porsche in 1996, and has now been a race car the rest of its life. unfortunately it doesn't have an RS chassis number so don't imagine its worth very much.
thegreenhell said:
Wow, I heard that was coming onto the market. I saw some photo's of the restoration. It was completely stripped back to bare metal and everything renewed/replaced/restored. That has definitely been a 'money no object' rebuild, but is an indication of where they think the market is for top end Cup Cars. Be interesting to see if it sells quickly or not... hondansx said:
When i was at the Silverstone Classic there was a box fresh Mint Green 964 Cup on display (i think it was auctioned). Both the cage and back of the Recaro seats were body coloured and it just looked terrifc. Whilst i don't think any 964 is worth the money they are going for now, it certainly caught my attention! So engine aside, the question is how easy it is to obtain the original parts to make it as per the factory intended.
I imagine once done the fact it is RHD and has a good backstory would overcome the engine issue, if the rest of the car looked mint (or Rubystone!).
Never been a big fan of mint green, but that does look excellent !I imagine once done the fact it is RHD and has a good backstory would overcome the engine issue, if the rest of the car looked mint (or Rubystone!).
hunter 66 said:
That car is now with a true enthusiast ( and top wheelman ) and will be restored and raced to the level it deserves ....
I'd really be interested in the progress of the restoration on this car. What specification has been decided? Road car or original race spec etc? It certainly won't be cheap! Any chance of an update / photo's? Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff