Ugliest 911 ever?

[JMo22]

I was just looking through the 996 Turbo picture thread and didn't want to p*ss on anybody's parade (so I haven't posted there!) but and it reminded me of the debate I was having when choosing between a 997.1 C2S and 996 turbo for my first 911 earlier this year.

As much as my head was telling me the 996T was better value and far less likely to have engine issues my heart just couldn't bring me to buy one given I'd wanted a 911 ever since I can remember and I'd just never look back and think that all the hard work was worth it.

Anyway that's my vote for ugliest 911 ever and I mean no ill to 996T owners as they are great cars. Generally always preferred the "pureness" of the Carrera shape without any rear spoiler (and that trademark roofline) or side vents. I think 2nd would be the flatnose for me.

What are your guys thoughts? Feel free to post pics and modded/race cars allowed!

1st:



2nd:



and mine (from the ad) if anyone cares to nominate!

[JMo22]

mcelliott said:

i was never that keen on the 996 shape, but it's really really growing on me now. I was at Le Mans this year and there was a lovely seal grey (?) Carrera 4s parked in Hotel Arbor for the weekend (fellow Pistonheader I think) and it looked absolutely lovely. It was parked next to a silver 997 - now that thing really did make my eyes bleed!

Touché!

I may have found a new winner for me, a Flatnose cab. Flatnose Targa pretty horrendous too (although can only find pictures of diecast models bizarrely). Are these official?!.

[JMo22]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[JMo22]

Sine Metu said:

The pent up demand argument? A proposition but nothing else. Again, no facts to support. Just hypotheses. But let's run with it. So people for years wanted a 911 but not the existing one so they waited until an all new one came out (the 993 not being new enough obviously which didn't outsell the 964 to any appreciable extent). So they waited a while longer. And this unleashed demad was so pent up, it lasted for eight years? But there's more to your argument. Not only was the demand based on pent up frustration over years, but the appeal of the new model was the interior, safety etc. Oh no, they couldn't possibly have liked how the ear looked. They grudgingly accepted that there's would be visually disappointing let's say, such we're the amazing qualities of the interior, safety, creature comforts and the etc's you allude.

And this is how absurd it gets. If you don't like the looks of the 996 fine. Great design can often be polarising. But to try to unearth every possible reason why others might have bought it while dismissing any possibility that maybe, just maybe, a whole generation of Porsche fans loved its looks (as surprising as the might be to you or any others whose view of the 996 era is formulated by Total911 or GTpp journos or forum dwellers is...well, denying the truth of history.

And it's a facile argument to say just because something was popularly received doesn't mean anything. It's not even my argument anyway. My argument that the popular acclaim the car received and continued to enjoy through its time has been somehow revised and hidden under the carpet by those who just can't allow to disagree with their own personal prejudice.

I didn't even say I don't like "the 996". In my original post I said I thought the 996 Turbo was possibly the ugliest 911 ever. I like the mk1 996, mk2 GT3s and GT2. No I don't have facts to back-up a subjective view and I haven't even bothered checking your "facts" because I know what subjective means. I'm fairly sure you don't.

When are you going to say what you think the ugliest 911 ever is? It might have skipped your attention but that is the title of the thread and my original post asks people to give their nominations. Your rants are beyond boring now. Why do you feel the need to stick up for "the 996" so much anyway?

Edited by JMo22 on Tuesday 2nd December 21:46

[JMo22]

Sine Metu said:

Eh, I think it's skipped your attention that I did answer that question four or five posts ago. I think your the one ranting by the way when you throw out silly infantile jibberish about my ynderstanding of the word subjective. Calm down.

Apologies - I missed it amongst the pages of ranting about the 996 :P

Early and IB Targas. Got a picture? No idea what an IB Targa is to be honest.

As for silly infantile jibberish about your understanding of subjective - you repeatedly tried to use facts to back up what is clearly a subjective topic and then repeatedly demanded others to do so as well. In my opinion it's reasonable to question someone's understanding of subjective in that instance.

[JMo22]

mollytherocker said:

Sine Metu said:

IB = Impact Bumper

Its all subjective, but I love them.

Don't mind that. Quite like the early Targas actually



Now if only I had some facts to back that up

[JMo22]

Sine Metu said:

Well I do have one fact. The vast majority of buyers opted for the coupe. Now from what I've read, Tara's actually make for a brilliant driving experience. What's not to like about lifting out that roof and driving along on a sunny day. Or chucking your jacket into the back seat without opening the door.
I'm not interpreting the fact but I might surmise that most people were put off by the looks. Even in sunny climates. Which is fine. Each to their own.
But if someone came along and said that the Targa was the 'most loved of all 911's and that the overwhelming popularity of the coupe was in no way proof that people preffered the lesser loved coupe which was only succesfull for econimc reasons, i might cautiously suggest that the fact indicates otherwise. But I would remain open to a counter fact that might give some small degree of insight.

I thought Targas and Cabrios of that vintage (and even in many cases now except carbon-chassis cars) have much less rigid chassis and therefore flex a lot more and have a lot of "scuttle shake" in the steering so don't drive as well as coupes. I prefer the look of coupes to targas and cabrios too but would say there is a valid engineering/ driving enjoyment reason to prefer coupes too.

[JMo22]

Hungrymc said:

I read quite a lot. I don't know what it is about the Porsche forum but it's constant justification of one model and derision of the others. Normally starts with air cooled vs 'vanilla' 996 etc

Ever thought that might be because on other forums you don't have 50 years of the same model to differentiate and choose between?

Not sure if your comment was aimed at this thread but it was just meant to be a bit of fun and something I hadn't seen on here before despite searching (which is somewhat contrary to your claim this happens all the time) until it was hijacked by what I presume is a troll!

[JMo22]

Sine Metu said:

JMo22 said:

Hungrymc said:

I read quite a lot. I don't know what it is about the Porsche forum but it's constant justification of one model and derision of the others. Normally starts with air cooled vs 'vanilla' 996 etc

Ever thought that might be because on other forums you don't have 50 years of the same model to differentiate and choose between?

Not sure if your comment was aimed at this thread but it was just meant to be a bit of fun and something I hadn't seen on here before despite searching (which is somewhat contrary to your claim this happens all the time) until it was hijacked by what I presume is a troll!

If you look into it, most Porsche forums are extremely toxic. You'll find endless threads reeking with hostility towards certain models, utter disdain for drivers of Cayennes, women drivers etc.Derision of other peoples cars is de facto Porsche culture. Comes with the territory. A defining Porschephile trait. You tend not to find it with other Marques.

Edited by Sine Metu on Friday 5th December 22:18

Maybe...I've never been to a Porsche only event in real life to know but an online forum would be pretty dull if it was all "that one's great"..."that one's great and equally as good as the other with no comment to add".

[JMo22]

FrankCayman said:

I don't think Sine is a troll. He's just simply questioning certain opinions that are put over as fact.

That's the problem with ' car enthusiasts' forums... (how can you ever define what a car enthusiast is anyway??)....they have a very small percentage of people who get a little carried away with typing about cars, rather than actually enjoying them!! You end up with a forum dominated by people who are 'enthusiasts for car forums' rather than actual cars!!

Take my friend who loves cars...never been on a forum as he can't stand wasting time in front of a computer. He buys a 996 C2 with 40K. Has it for 4 years/50K...blissfully unaware of all the engine probs etc.... no issues with the car whatsoever....pex for a M5 and enjoyed 4 years of stress free Porsche motoring.

Then you have poor Cmoose who makes over 26,000 posts on this forum...clearly well informed and has huge knowledge of Porsches along with other cars......always helpful to point out the known issues with Porsche engines, and what to check before buying, and what is a 'real' drivers car....clearly knows how different Porches drive and what the cars look like in the metal....yet he buys a Cayman...which turns out to have bore scoring....plus he's not even sure he likes the looks or drive of the car...........

More driving, less typing me thinks

Cripes! It was a thread asking for people's OPINION on the ugliest 911. It was supposed to be a poll with a bit of banter and ended up with Sine repeatedly asking people to prove their opinions with facts. If that's not trolling, what is?..and yes I have been guilty of responding to it

[JMo22]

stuttgartmetal said:

I guess the only thing worse than a flatnose cab is a converted flatnose cab! Loving the winglets, they must generate at least 10kg of downforce!

[JMo22]

For those who said I was just a 996 hater in this thread, I now have a Mk1 GT3. Still not a big fan of the 996 Turbo styling but have to say 991s look bloated in comparison and interiors are too much of a tech fest rather than being driver focussed.

Wonder how others thoughts have evolved in last 3 years?

[JMo22]

Nice.

I have to say since this thread was created I am not sure if I am keen on the 991 GT3 RS. Too many scoops and vents (more than a GT3R so not sure they are really all necessary) and the wing is so big think you look like a bit of a berk driving one on the road.

Maybe I'm just getting old!

[JMo22]

Beefmeister said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well yes, I looked at the words you wrote, processed them and still can't really grasp what you're getting at. Just because the RS has big wheels and a wider body, it's not a sports car?

I think you're moving into the realms of 'what defines a sports car/supercar/hypercar' discussions now though.

Is the 911 GT3 RS a sporting car? Yes, absolutely, it's one of the most exhilarating sports cars I've driven on track, bit much on road for me but a staggeringly competent and fun sports car.

I think what he's getting at, which I pretty much agree with, is that the wheels are far larger than on the 911R or Carrera Cup cars. With the 996 GT3 the race cars were near on identical at the beginning whereas now the road car wheels are closer to that of an SUV, which means higher unsprung weight, and have low profile tyres, which aren't particularly good for riding kerbs on the track. This suggests it is now more of a marketing game on Porsche's part rather than being a true homologation of racing technology and pedigree. This isn't what GT3 or RS used to mean. Happy to be proved wrong as I am not an expert on the history of every RS model!

You also said yourself that the car is a bit much on the road, which means to me it's not so much a sports car but a track car. Frankly all 991s are pretty wide for UK roads (a point cmoose also touched upon). Moving from my old 997 to my 996 I have noticed a positive difference in being able to place the car within a lane rather than the width being such that I am basically just following the road.

Edited by JMo22 on Monday 6th November 19:03