This is getting ridiculous!
Discussion
Is this for real? http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/964...
I know people who like Porsche, REALLY like Porsche, but for this money you could have a 458, an Aventador and still have enough change for a daily runaround Range Rover.
Are people only buying these in the hope they will continue to rise in value or do they really believe a car made in the early 90's is worth this much money?
I remember meeting a guy in 2001 who had a collection of Lambo's. He showed me his collection and told me he was offered £250k for one of them by some sultan, which he had bought many years before for £20k. He turned the guy down thinking they would continue to rise and then the bottom fell out of the classic car market and he lost out on a lot of money. I wonder how long it'll be before that happens to these. Surely no one would ever pay £500k for a 964?..... crazy!
I know people who like Porsche, REALLY like Porsche, but for this money you could have a 458, an Aventador and still have enough change for a daily runaround Range Rover.
Are people only buying these in the hope they will continue to rise in value or do they really believe a car made in the early 90's is worth this much money?
I remember meeting a guy in 2001 who had a collection of Lambo's. He showed me his collection and told me he was offered £250k for one of them by some sultan, which he had bought many years before for £20k. He turned the guy down thinking they would continue to rise and then the bottom fell out of the classic car market and he lost out on a lot of money. I wonder how long it'll be before that happens to these. Surely no one would ever pay £500k for a 964?..... crazy!
But where has this sudden love for old Porsche's come from? There were much better, more charismatic cars from this era then the 911. Is it purely the effect of Singer and Magnus Walker that are pushing these up, or is it the fact that Porsche is now a mass production car brand, building cars for the broadest demographic possible? I just don't understand the logic.
In reality, is the rareness that important? Would anyone even notice you were driving a 1 of 100 ever made, or would they think "ohh there's another old 911 with a stupid bodykit"? Is the car that amazing to drive... I doubt it by today's standards.
The reason Porsche has so many rare cars is because they release about 10 variants of the same car, including some that don't make any sense and hence no one buys them and they become rare by default. This doesn't mean they are any good though.
People should be buying Lancia Intergrale's, RS Cosworth's, XJ220's, NSX's and Diablo's, cars from the 90's with meaning, that changed the car world, not a 911 turbo with a few things removed and an S put on the back..... very dull!
I'd love to understand the physiology of someone buying one of these.
Can you believe for £150k less you can buy an XJ220 from the same year, with less miles?! 1 of only 300 (and people know it) and a car that had far more impact on the world then a 964. http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_J...
The reason Porsche has so many rare cars is because they release about 10 variants of the same car, including some that don't make any sense and hence no one buys them and they become rare by default. This doesn't mean they are any good though.
People should be buying Lancia Intergrale's, RS Cosworth's, XJ220's, NSX's and Diablo's, cars from the 90's with meaning, that changed the car world, not a 911 turbo with a few things removed and an S put on the back..... very dull!
I'd love to understand the physiology of someone buying one of these.
Can you believe for £150k less you can buy an XJ220 from the same year, with less miles?! 1 of only 300 (and people know it) and a car that had far more impact on the world then a 964. http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_J...
GT Two said:
are you lost?
No. I'm a Porsche fan, but when they are silly money like this, you have to compare them to what else there is out there. Maybe it is worth £425k and maybe a 2.7 RS is worth £2.5m. 
who and I to decide.I think what's happened is Porsche has gone from a small, independent car builder that had a relatively small customer base c10k cars a year in 1993 to a mass production car company selling 162k cars in 2013. This has created a much larger fan base and all of a sudden the old cars are now very rare. And of course the Porsche marketing machine will continue to churn out limited editions like the Club Sport to keep this trend going in years to come. Clever stuff!
g7jhp said:
I certainly agree aircooled Porsche prices are at a peak, but can't put an XJ220 as a sensible alternative.
A Porsche 964 turbo (3.3) S is very rare, has a low ownership cost, is far more usable and Porsche has a larger global fan base.
Whether it's worth the money isn't my call.
Most of the other cars you mention (Lancia Intergrale's, RS Cosworth's, XJ220's, NSX's and Diablo) are interesting cars but aren't as well built, usable and their brand aren't as desirable as Porsche.
I think the XJ220 is a fair comparison. It's a car from the same year and is as rare as the Turbo S. I doubt very many people buying a £425k car are considering the running costs and daily usability, as I suspect it will end up in a humidity controlled tent, appreciating in price... but it would be great if it were used. A Porsche 964 turbo (3.3) S is very rare, has a low ownership cost, is far more usable and Porsche has a larger global fan base.
Whether it's worth the money isn't my call.
Most of the other cars you mention (Lancia Intergrale's, RS Cosworth's, XJ220's, NSX's and Diablo) are interesting cars but aren't as well built, usable and their brand aren't as desirable as Porsche.
Yes Porsche has a large fan base, mostly because their cars are so accessible. You can own a Porsche from £1k nowadays and a 911 from £10k, plus they now sell over 160k cars a year. Compare that to Aston Martin who sold just over 4000 cars in 2013 and you understand why Porsche has such a large user community and following. But I would hardly say from a mutual point of view, that Porsche is a more desirable brand then a Lambo or a Jag XJ220, but people do like to belong and like the things they own.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think you're right here. A combination of traders pushing prices up and Total 911 running out of things to write about. 
This whole reliability thing is a bit of a myth, especially when you consider the 996 and all the IMS and cooling issues Porsche has engineered in to it's cars, I'm sure VW will sort this out though. The air cooled are pretty simple engines so not much can go wrong if they are maintained, which they are as they are all owned by enthusiasts. Any car will do over 100k miles. I had a BMW 316 E36 as my first car. I bought it at 130k miles and thrashed it until 180k miles where it was still going strong, until a tree got in the way. The only car I've ever been nervous owning was my Cayman S, as I was always just waiting for the engine to self-destruct. In fact I sold it for that very reason.
You're absolutely right, an XJ220 is an eccentric car that is unpractical and expensive to maintain..... but is that not what makes them so special? I just can't understand why a car like that which is one of a kind and will never happen again, that is so unique to anything else, can be £150k less than a variant of the 964? Take off the Porsche tinted glasses and remind yourself what an awesome car it was and still is!
Autocar review of the XJ220 today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRaGLoR3wSM
Chris Harris races one in an XKR-S: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SInTigWaDFs
My point here is, that if you can buy this car at £150k less then the Porsche, then surely the Porsche is over valued?
Autocar review of the XJ220 today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRaGLoR3wSM
Chris Harris races one in an XKR-S: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SInTigWaDFs
My point here is, that if you can buy this car at £150k less then the Porsche, then surely the Porsche is over valued?
TIGA84 said:
Faldo car I think - its got the lairy steering wheel. I know the guy that owned the other black car. One of 8 UK cars IIRC.
This is where Porsche is very clever. "One of 8 UK cars". Well is it? Porsche sold around 62,000 964's and nearly 4k turbos. There were over 13 variants of the same car, some that sold in big numbers a some that didn't. What other car manufacture releases 13 versions of the same car? Porsche were effectively modifying current models, to boost sales (pun intended), as they were almost bankrupt and their attempt to build actual new models were fairly unsuccessful (928, 924, 944, 968). I doubt very much the the Turbo S was designed from the ground up... more likely someone in marketing said "lets take some bits off that turbo, increase the boost and we'll sell it as a new model". Surely people are wise to this? I believe the truest version in any 911 range has to be the C2S, as this is what the car is designed to be from day one.
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