Approx £30,000 - Best entry option to Porsche ownership?
Discussion
Hi all,
I am trying to decide on my next vehicle. I have never owned a Porsche, but am naturally very tempted. Budget is £25,000-£30,000. I have looked on the internet and see various references to bore score which from what I can make out does not affect gen 2 vehicles as much?
I intend to try various vehicles, but I guess my question is this.
Would my money be better in getting as newer Boxster / Cayman as possible, or look at a 996 /997? Is there a massive difference in ownership of all?
I know you get the "poor mans Porsche" rubbish from the uneducated, none of which bothers me. Just general advice please on the best entry route to Porsche ownership. Will be using the car as a daily for just me and the other half occasionally. Monthly mileage circa 1,000-1,250.
Many thanks in anticipation,
Paul
I am trying to decide on my next vehicle. I have never owned a Porsche, but am naturally very tempted. Budget is £25,000-£30,000. I have looked on the internet and see various references to bore score which from what I can make out does not affect gen 2 vehicles as much?
I intend to try various vehicles, but I guess my question is this.
Would my money be better in getting as newer Boxster / Cayman as possible, or look at a 996 /997? Is there a massive difference in ownership of all?
I know you get the "poor mans Porsche" rubbish from the uneducated, none of which bothers me. Just general advice please on the best entry route to Porsche ownership. Will be using the car as a daily for just me and the other half occasionally. Monthly mileage circa 1,000-1,250.
Many thanks in anticipation,
Paul
Scooty100 said:
For your budget and intended use get a 996 TT. Will hold value well now as opposed to the 997 regular car that has further depreciation to go and wont give you the thrill the turbo will.
What age and spec should I be aiming for? Am I right in saying that bore score isn't an issue with the turbo engines?
daxtojeiro said:
I was in the same boat until last week. I had 20-25K to spend on a convertible, looked at the Boxsters and decided these weren't for me as it just isn't a 911, but they cost about the same to run. Also suspected the 911 would hold its value better. (No idea if thats true but it could be)
I then looked at the 996 and the 997S Gen 1, the 997 is a much nicer car to drive, better looking and newer (obviously) so should be better to use as a daily runner. I found a good black 997S Gen 1 convertible (38000ml) just over my budget, but looking at them it was worth spending that little more on a newer car as I need it to get my wife to work and back every day.
I felt that a lot of the 996s were looking old now, where as most of the 997s still looked fresh and hadnt worn as badly as the older 996s.
So for me Id get as new a car as you can with as low mileage as you can for your money in a colour you like, if its a 996 or a 997 I dont think its important, unless theres something wrong with the 3.8 engine? Dont tell me if there is, I dont want to know
cheers
Phil
That's great to hear Phil. What year is your 997? I am really unsure about the possible "bore score" issue. I intend to test drive a Cayman S and 911 to compare. Convertible doesn't appeal to me which is the only reason I wouldn't consider boxster. Is the 3.8 a more reliable engine?I then looked at the 996 and the 997S Gen 1, the 997 is a much nicer car to drive, better looking and newer (obviously) so should be better to use as a daily runner. I found a good black 997S Gen 1 convertible (38000ml) just over my budget, but looking at them it was worth spending that little more on a newer car as I need it to get my wife to work and back every day.
I felt that a lot of the 996s were looking old now, where as most of the 997s still looked fresh and hadnt worn as badly as the older 996s.
So for me Id get as new a car as you can with as low mileage as you can for your money in a colour you like, if its a 996 or a 997 I dont think its important, unless theres something wrong with the 3.8 engine? Dont tell me if there is, I dont want to know
cheers
Phil
bigunit00 said:
Looks great but to be honest 70k would put me off, as 100k (rightly or wrongly) seems to hit values badly generally. DoubleSix said:
Only in the sense that you'll be getting a lower mile example than the 70k 911 above and of course by having an OPC warranty reliability becomes practically a non-issue.
We could also argue that the 987 has wonderfully benign handling traits that might suit a newcomer to Porsche but I know nothing of your driving experience so perhaps moot.
In my first year of Porsche ownership my car needed a new steering rack, new window motor, new offside fan and a new PCM unit - I was glas to be able to throw the keys at the OPC and let them worry about it...
Off course you could buy the 911 above and have an OPC warranty added later but it's still covered a lot more ground than an equivilent £30,000 987
Thanks for that, useful to know. My driving experience is to a good level, through work and other avenues so I am confident I can handle most cars well, and drive within my limits.We could also argue that the 987 has wonderfully benign handling traits that might suit a newcomer to Porsche but I know nothing of your driving experience so perhaps moot.
In my first year of Porsche ownership my car needed a new steering rack, new window motor, new offside fan and a new PCM unit - I was glas to be able to throw the keys at the OPC and let them worry about it...
Off course you could buy the 911 above and have an OPC warranty added later but it's still covered a lot more ground than an equivilent £30,000 987
daxtojeiro said:
I think there are a few horror stories on all the engines, I had one of the early 3.2 Boxster S a few years ago and according to the forums it was on borrowed time. The guy I bought the 997 from had had it checked over by a specialist when he got it, maybe that the way to go, spend a few hundred pounds on an engine check. I nearly asked the very same question you have on here a few weeks back, but decided there are too many opinions and it would really confuse me, so I bought what I liked the look of and what I felt drove best. If it has issues then its just bad luck, as I can find stories for most of the models on google.
Its a 1996 997 3.8 S convertible in black with 38,000 miles on it, just serviced by our local specialist, good Pirelli tyres, spotless bodywork and spotless interior. Got it for under £30K, which for me is a hell of a lot of money to spend on a car for my wife to get to work in, so I was the one who wanted to be happy with it,
thanks
Phil
Thanks very much Phil, and good on you! Its a 1996 997 3.8 S convertible in black with 38,000 miles on it, just serviced by our local specialist, good Pirelli tyres, spotless bodywork and spotless interior. Got it for under £30K, which for me is a hell of a lot of money to spend on a car for my wife to get to work in, so I was the one who wanted to be happy with it,
thanks
Phil
tiptoptopcat said:
Newbie and its some years since I've posted anywhere but having had a few old Porsches and contributed to several similar debates over the years, I hope you find something useful in what I offer.
You say you want a daily driver, so I'm discarding any advice on air-cooled 911's. I'm also setting aside thoughts about 968's etc. The choice then is between more modern models focusing on the Boxster/Cayman or 911. That ignores a few other models so assume you want a sports car.
With the Boxster / Cayman, you're not really buying into a history, so if thats what you prefer buy the best car you can for the money. Since PDK, the debate about auto/tiptronic against manual is, for everyday stuff an irrelevance. If you can afford a PDK then get one. Sportcrono should be on the option list if you can get it.
With 911's, I would recommend buying a 997 or later. I was looking at 996turbo when the 997 was launched and lucky enough to be at the factory in the first year of build. The 997 is simply a class apart in terms of design, build and engineering and felt much more agile on the track. Personally I preferred the 997 C2S to the 996Turbo but they remain two very different animals. I was also lucky enough to be lent a dealers 997 C4S and it was really a class apart in every day use.
Don't get me wrong, the 996TT had a lot going for it the time. I was offered a pal's special order 996TT for £25K about 10 years ago but decided to spend more on a 993C4S (but I didn't want to use it every day). I still hanker for a 996C4S convertible because I love the look. Fortunately I've already done the turbo bit, when lag was measured in minutes, not milliseconds. Anyway, for what its worth, I would commend the best and newest 911 you can find because if bought well, it will be a reliable car that will always put a smile on your face. I almost envy you ...
Thanks very much, great advice and much appreciated! You say you want a daily driver, so I'm discarding any advice on air-cooled 911's. I'm also setting aside thoughts about 968's etc. The choice then is between more modern models focusing on the Boxster/Cayman or 911. That ignores a few other models so assume you want a sports car.
With the Boxster / Cayman, you're not really buying into a history, so if thats what you prefer buy the best car you can for the money. Since PDK, the debate about auto/tiptronic against manual is, for everyday stuff an irrelevance. If you can afford a PDK then get one. Sportcrono should be on the option list if you can get it.
With 911's, I would recommend buying a 997 or later. I was looking at 996turbo when the 997 was launched and lucky enough to be at the factory in the first year of build. The 997 is simply a class apart in terms of design, build and engineering and felt much more agile on the track. Personally I preferred the 997 C2S to the 996Turbo but they remain two very different animals. I was also lucky enough to be lent a dealers 997 C4S and it was really a class apart in every day use.
Don't get me wrong, the 996TT had a lot going for it the time. I was offered a pal's special order 996TT for £25K about 10 years ago but decided to spend more on a 993C4S (but I didn't want to use it every day). I still hanker for a 996C4S convertible because I love the look. Fortunately I've already done the turbo bit, when lag was measured in minutes, not milliseconds. Anyway, for what its worth, I would commend the best and newest 911 you can find because if bought well, it will be a reliable car that will always put a smile on your face. I almost envy you ...
g7jhp said:
It's a Gen 1 997 so it has the known engine issues, which is why they take longer to sell. I'd be looking for a Gen 2 if you want a 997.
Possibly a 997.2 C2 like this if you can't/don't want to stretch to a 997.2 C2S.
Note that 996 turbo's at the same (or other dealers) aren't hanging around!
Thanks. Am I right in saying gen 2 isn't until 2009? I could stretch a bit over 30k but that's my ideal top spend.Possibly a 997.2 C2 like this if you can't/don't want to stretch to a 997.2 C2S.
Note that 996 turbo's at the same (or other dealers) aren't hanging around!
Edited by g7jhp on Monday 2nd February 09:23
And do 996 turbos not suffer the same problem with bore score?
Edited by PompeyPaul on Monday 2nd February 09:36
IMIA said:
Thanks matey. As others have suggested maybe best to buy a gen 2 if you can as they are a bit more reliable. 911 Virgin have a very good reputation - you can't go wrong with them just make sure you get their full 12 month in house warranty.
In your shoes though I'd be looking for mint bog standard low miles gen 2 996 for £15k but I haven't seen a goodun come up for sale for a few years. Very good VFM and excellent cars. The 996 and 997 do have an issue with their RMS/IMS but nothing like as bad as people make out. Fail rate is probably no more than 5%. I've covered 160k miles in a couple of early Boxster S' with no issues whatsoever in fact my Mezger turbo by comparison has been a complete lemon in terms of reliability.
You should not rule out a 996 turbo if one comes up within your budget - they are slowly starting to appreciate in value which may offset some future servicing costs. 911 V, RSJ, Cridfords, Eporsch, Cameron Sports Cars, Harbour Cars and Chappell Cars and Portiacraft always tend to have good selection of used cars but even they all struggle to find good cars to sell so be patient and do your own research before buying.
Great advice thanks! Am I right in thinking the the bore score isn't an issue with the turbo engines? Are running costs (servicing etc) horrendously more than non turbos?In your shoes though I'd be looking for mint bog standard low miles gen 2 996 for £15k but I haven't seen a goodun come up for sale for a few years. Very good VFM and excellent cars. The 996 and 997 do have an issue with their RMS/IMS but nothing like as bad as people make out. Fail rate is probably no more than 5%. I've covered 160k miles in a couple of early Boxster S' with no issues whatsoever in fact my Mezger turbo by comparison has been a complete lemon in terms of reliability.
You should not rule out a 996 turbo if one comes up within your budget - they are slowly starting to appreciate in value which may offset some future servicing costs. 911 V, RSJ, Cridfords, Eporsch, Cameron Sports Cars, Harbour Cars and Chappell Cars and Portiacraft always tend to have good selection of used cars but even they all struggle to find good cars to sell so be patient and do your own research before buying.
Edited by PompeyPaul on Monday 2nd February 16:49
IMIA said:
As long as you buy a good turbo with a 12 month cast iron warranty then for the first year at least you're covered. Again after that if you have bought a good turbo in the first place as long as you stay on top of maintenance and find yourself a trustworthy Indy you'll be fine and it shouldn't cost anymore than a regular 996/997 to run. Bore scoring not an issue but they love to leak coolant and go through radiators for fun as do the regular non turbo cars too. I'd be looking for a low owner car with a good service history preferably opc main dealer or a top Indy like Parr, JZM, RSJ, Paragon, 9e , Sport and Classic, RPM etc etc as the owner shouldn't have then skimped on servicing. Prices are starting to go mad on certain 996 turbos though. I've seen a few x50 and turbo S with ultra low miles sell for between £45k and £60k recently. The regular turbo is a sweeter drive than the x50 for daily use in any event as its smaller turbos are less laggy. If you can find a goodun (not easy mind) you're buying a flipping license losing prison time road rocket lol. A regular 997 Carrera or Carrera S is plenty fast. I've had a gen 2 Carrera on the autobahn at 180mph and it was fantastic.
Thanks for the advice and sharing your experience and knowledge!Magic919 said:
If you aren't concerned about engine woes.
I am for sure. I am not fortunate enough to have stacks of cash in reserve.Sorry to be a little dim, but am I righ in think from what is being said that a 9996 turbo is the best way to enter Porsche ownership with my with half a chance (with the exception of the 997 with 70,000 miles due in linked also)?
Magic919 said:
If you want to avoid the known engine woes, then 996 Turbo does that. It does, however, come with the possibility of the usual 911 costs like rads, condensers, clutch etc and then adds some turbo-related items like actuators, heat shields and so on.
A guy at work bought one and I think he has spent about £6000 in the first year or so. That on a £27,000 car IIRC.
Finding a decent Turbo for your budget should be possible. Then get a decent place like 9 Excellence to inspect it.
Make sure you drive one and like it too. Sort out which gearbox you want.
Thanks fo clarifying!A guy at work bought one and I think he has spent about £6000 in the first year or so. That on a £27,000 car IIRC.
Finding a decent Turbo for your budget should be possible. Then get a decent place like 9 Excellence to inspect it.
Make sure you drive one and like it too. Sort out which gearbox you want.
Had a chat with a porsche main dealership today. The lady in serving had been there 28 years and only knew one one bore score problem bought into them, but was aware of it. She was adamant that the problem has been blownwell out proportion with online gossip. I would to love to know what the actual percentage rate problem is. Surely can't be that high when you think how many have been sold?
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