911 returnd from dealer with molegrips in suspension spring

[richardrsc]

Gah.

Just had some work done at my local OPC - new front struts, tyres and 4 wheel alignment.

Took it home, getting a massive 'clonk' on speed bumps and potholes.

The kindly Porsche assistance chap diagnosed it within 30 seconds of it being on the flatbed - a pair of mole grips jammed in the front right suspension spring.

Not overly impressed as you can imagine!

I haven't really got a clue when it comes to mechanics, but if they remove their tools and say 'job done' should I be suspicious? is this likely to have knackered/weakened the springs or bugger up the alignment that they did?

Cheers

[richardrsc]

PorscheGT4 said:

well if they did the "alignment" with that jammed in the spring, then yes it will be out now that's been taken out.

Ta, I'll push for a new alignment. What about the springs, I'm guessing if its been trying to bounce up and down unsuccessfully it can't have done them much good?

[richardrsc]

Trev450 said:

The spring should be ok but no harm in mentioning it to them.

Ta. I think I'd rather have a new one, it didn't sound very nice!

[richardrsc]

Zyp said:

What make were they?

the springs? Just whatever comes in them. Porsche ones I guess, Car is all standard.

[richardrsc]

Zyp said:

No, the grips.

Dunno, I left them in there.

[richardrsc]

IknowJoseph said:

Have the grips been hitting the wheel arch liner?

I'd guess they probably have, would make sense that would be what's making the knocking noise. Not sure about the grindy-squealy noise on trying to do a 3 point turn on an incline though.

[richardrsc]

With these feet said:

I'd not be happy at all.
Apart from the fact they didn't road test the car after they replaced the springs - if they had they would have noticed the noise, the mole grips are there to prevent the damper rod rotating when doing the top nut up. Probably means they've spun the damper rod, couldn't do the nut up, one lad fits the grips and holds them, the other does up the nut. One assumes the other removed the grips afterwards.... Its a fairly common thing to use the grips to do this, otherwise you can damage the damper spinning it repeatedly. That's not to say they didn't do that before using them.

To be fair, you couldn't hear a thing until you hit a speed bump or a pothole, it all seemed to be driving very nicely.

[richardrsc]

chrisABP said:

^ If the grips were indeed used on the shock absorber piston rod then you need to have the shocks replaced as under NO circumstances should the piston rod be gripped in this way. Once the piston rod is gripped it no longer provides a perfect seal when passing through the shock-absorber and this will result in the shock absorber leaking.

Really bad practice and if I were the OP I would be mighty p****d off.

Yeh I am mighty po'ed. Was having a bad week already and now sitting in the office now waiting for a hire car to turn up.....

So new springs, new rods, new alignment? & wheel arches if they are damaged? Is that what I should be asking for? I'm guessing if that grip was gripping the rod it's probably shredded it? though as you can tell I'm no mechanic!

[richardrsc]

LordOfTheManor said:

I think I'm probably not supposed to say with the name and shame thing, but will msg you. I have no doubt they will put it right, but its concerning that something like this could have caused damage which may not have become apparent for some time.

Not what we pay silly hourly rates for.

[richardrsc]

"Hi Mr RichardRSC, Just calling to let you know your car is all ready - the technician has removed his tool and has checked it out and says it's all OK"

I'm not even paraphrasing.... I've asked for a report in writing, cos I'm buggered if I'm paying for new suspension if it craps out in a few months time.

[richardrsc]

domster said:

No naming and shaming allowed, or a useful thread will die an unseemly death thanks to the Haymarket legal team Locke & De Leat.

How does that work anyway, I don't have any intention of publically naming them, but if it's entirely truthful, what's the problem in saying it? Or do PH just remove a thread on the slightest threat?

[richardrsc]

domster said:

The problem is the burden of proof. Proof wins legal cases, not truth. You are correct that truth is an absolute defence to libel but PH can't get embroiled in the nitty gritty of legal warfare so has to remove all threads of this nature if naming and shaming occurs. For example, say the OPC had a very expensive hot shot lawyer who managed to persuade a judge that you had a grievance with the dealership and suggested that you had put the molegrips in yourself (when you didn't!) and they found against you and Pistonheads, it could be very expensive for all involved. The law isn't always just, right and fair.

If people want to find out the OPC there are common sense ways they can find out, without dragging PH into it, or exposing you (as the OP) to legal action.

Whilst this appears quite clearcut and there appears to be some 'public interest', many other instances of naming and shaming are muddier and a blanket approach to moderation is the only way a busy forum can sensibly operate. Not ideal, not fair, but practical and efficient. It's Haymarket's train set and they call the shots whether I, you or Russell Brand agree with how it works.

Yeh sounds reasonable. Probably why my report in writing seems to be taking a little while!

[richardrsc]

domster said:

PS The OPC should be VERY apologetic re this and shower you with love to prevent you calling a local branch of Locke & De Leat yourself, because it is unacceptable behaviour. Escalation would be with Reading HQ in the first instance though, should OPC not play ball.
I once found a spanner in my engine bay a few weeks after work by an independent, left there by accident, but your molegrips trump that...

Yeh I was a bit surprised not to get an apology, it was very matter of fact.

"Sir, the technician is just hitting your bodywork with a hammer - when he's done with that and then finished banging your missus over the bonnet, you'll probably find his lunchbox in your glovebox. Is there anything else I can help Sir with today?"*

• For the benefits of Porsches lawyers, he didn't actually say that. I was being ironic.

Edited by richardrsc on Tuesday 17th March 15:37

Edited by richardrsc on Tuesday 17th March 15:39

[richardrsc]

aka_kerrly said:

Well it's good to know that the mole grips weren't damaged;) but I'd still want to inspect the inner arch lining myself just to be happy.

I think those who are suggestion two new shocks, new arch lining and new spring are getting a little ahead of themselves. I confess to having used mole grips on the struts to undo top mounts in the past and this has never led to a leaky/ruined shock.

Yeh you're probably right. I'll settle for a new 991 Turbo S and an apology.

[richardrsc]

aka_kerrly said:

Well it's good to know that the mole grips weren't damaged;) but I'd still want to inspect the inner arch lining myself just to be happy.

I think those who are suggestion two new shocks, new arch lining and new spring are getting a little ahead of themselves. I confess to having used mole grips on the struts to undo top mounts in the past and this has never led to a leaky/ruined shock.

You sound quite pragmatic about it, which is fair enough.. as first replier pointed out, the '4 wheel alignment' was no doubt carried out with a spanner in the works so to speak...would you think that needs to be re-done?

[richardrsc]

Bennachie said:

A head needs to roll and bump down a few steps over this...

FWIIW I would be livid and the pix would be in the haqnds of the dealer principal, porsche reading and my legal rep.

IT's absolutely NOT Porsche Reading. I'm not allowed to say who it is, but it isn't them. It's not Swindon either, I wish it had gone to them as they've always been brilliant.

[richardrsc]

cptsideways said:

I'd be wanting to oversee an inspection in person, making sure every bolt is correctly torqued up. That any part of the shock shaft is not damaged. Bearing in mind when the car is on a ramp the clamped part may well have been further down the shaft. Both sides of course.

I'd also be asking to see the qualification level of the person who did it, who was overseeing them etc.


Appalling level of bodgery, you do wonder what else they got wrong. So I'd be checking how the dangling calipers were held up (not by the brake hoses) if anything is cross threaded etc etc.

A bodger will have bodged other stuff too

My problem is that I know pretty much 0 about mechanics, so spotting anything other than an obviously damaged surface is probably a little beyond me!. That's why I pay an OPC, because I expect them to get it right. I do have a local Bosche garage that I trust though, so I'll probably take it down there and get them to give it a once over.

I appreciate anyone can have a bad day and leave stuff behind, but asking the guy that left his tools in there 'did you fk it up?' and getting a 'no' reply seems to be the level of the investigation as I currently understand it.

[richardrsc]

Well the outcome seems to be an emailed apology acknowledging the balls-up, the promise of an extra-good clean (needs it), and running the alignment check again.

And it's been double and triple checked to be absolutely, 100% unequivocally, definitely and explicitly not damaged. Though I may have a 3rd party have a quick look if I get the chance, cos I'm a cynical bugger and it was a nasty noise.

I'll give it a good check over for any additional tools, sandwiches, jackets, handbags, keys etc when I get it home and stick them on ebay if present.

Thanks for all the help and advice chaps. Panic over till next time.

[richardrsc]

Off original topic but has anyone else had those weird hybrid Lexus things as loan cars? Not sure of the model but looks a bit like a 5 series.

It's a most curious thing, it seems to have the effect of making you drive like a taxi driver.

[richardrsc]

With these feet said:

Cracks me up how so many report to be disgusted, amazed, outraged at this.
Sure, its not the way the book says do it. Yes there are tools that should be used. Yes a master technician must always work on my car......

The truth is, many times it will be a regular mechanic, not "technician of the year" but a guy just like the one that fits pads in Kwikfit. I've seen apprentices working on £60k cars, wiring alarms and letting cars roll onto walls on pdi inspections. What's to say the tool isn't available, broken or doesn't fit that model? Let's not forget dealers don't necessarily have every available service tool. Most mechanics have their own tools, none, other than essential tools are supplied by the dealer themselves.

Yes, maybe my pre-conceptions of what to expect are wrong, but I did expect that paying £££'s for Porsche rates would ensure that the job was done properly, with the correct tools, to the correct procedures etc. That's why I've always used an OPC, because this cars a bit special to me and I've seen what cheap maintenance looks like in the past.

I'm sure an old beater of a 997.1 doesn't quite qualify it to the same care and attention as a new 150k turbo, but I'm pretty sure we're still paying the same labour rates.

Anyway all seems to be well now and I get 2 half pint glasses with 'porsche' written on them as a sweetener! Hmm.