997 C2S - any comments?
Discussion
Any thoughts on this car? I think it looks pretty good and worth a look.
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...
Sorry. Details as follows. I think it's not got too much pointless tat and, frankly, it's a gorgeous colour!
Brookland OPC
C2S (manual)
Price: £ 43,995 (2 Years of Porsche Approved Warranty)
Mileage: 49,172 m
Exterior Colour: Porsche Racing Green Metallic
Displacement: 3,800 cc
Power Output: 385 HP
Previous Owners: 3
Equipment
19-inch Carrera Sport wheel
6-speed manual transmission
Automatically dimming interior and exterior mirrors
Automatically dimming interior and exterior mirrors with integrated rain sensor
BOSE® Surround Sound System
Extended navigation module for PCM 3.0
Heated seats
ParkAssist (parking aid rear)
Porsche crest embossed on head restraints
Rear section of center console in leather
Sport Chrono Package Plus
Sports seats
Telephone module
Trim strip switch panel leather
Universal audio interface
Windscreen with grey top tint
Brookland OPC
C2S (manual)
Price: £ 43,995 (2 Years of Porsche Approved Warranty)
Mileage: 49,172 m
Exterior Colour: Porsche Racing Green Metallic
Displacement: 3,800 cc
Power Output: 385 HP
Previous Owners: 3
Equipment
19-inch Carrera Sport wheel
6-speed manual transmission
Automatically dimming interior and exterior mirrors
Automatically dimming interior and exterior mirrors with integrated rain sensor
BOSE® Surround Sound System
Extended navigation module for PCM 3.0
Heated seats
ParkAssist (parking aid rear)
Porsche crest embossed on head restraints
Rear section of center console in leather
Sport Chrono Package Plus
Sports seats
Telephone module
Trim strip switch panel leather
Universal audio interface
Windscreen with grey top tint
Thanks a lot for your help, Doc and UK.
If it will be worth less by reason of being green when I sell it, shouldn't it also be worth less now? The demand for the car from the garage is derivative of the demand for the car from punters, so surely the same factors apply? £43k does not look to me to include any "greenness" discount, given the mileage. I suppose the OPC might say that unusual cars impose higher costs on them because they sit around for longer (but those costs must be fairly small).
I think manual C2S Gen 2's should hold value better than PDKs once the cars edge towards being "classics", shouldn't they? Manual cars usually sell for more once only enthusiasts are interested. Rarity might also start to pay a part, mightn't it? Manual 911s are getting increasingly rare.
I don't think I would be put off because the on-sale value might be lower, but I don't want to take a hit without seeing it coming, so thanks for the warnings.
If it will be worth less by reason of being green when I sell it, shouldn't it also be worth less now? The demand for the car from the garage is derivative of the demand for the car from punters, so surely the same factors apply? £43k does not look to me to include any "greenness" discount, given the mileage. I suppose the OPC might say that unusual cars impose higher costs on them because they sit around for longer (but those costs must be fairly small).
I think manual C2S Gen 2's should hold value better than PDKs once the cars edge towards being "classics", shouldn't they? Manual cars usually sell for more once only enthusiasts are interested. Rarity might also start to pay a part, mightn't it? Manual 911s are getting increasingly rare.
I don't think I would be put off because the on-sale value might be lower, but I don't want to take a hit without seeing it coming, so thanks for the warnings.
Beknown said:
Firstly, go for it! Also I think the manual is more desirable gearbox in 997 form.
Can I ask why the change though from your 987? I may be mistaken but from your other posts I thought you were after a current generation Porsche.
I am planning for when my son can go into a forward facing car seat. I figure that I may as well buy a good 997 now if I see one, rather than wait and then not have any turn up for months and months (which is fairly likely given that I am quite picky - manual, not black or white or silver, no PASM, etc).Can I ask why the change though from your 987? I may be mistaken but from your other posts I thought you were after a current generation Porsche.
No reason other than that to move on. I love the 987, and it has cost me a huge amount of money recently, so I would in principle prefer to keep it and let it earn its keep! (Biggest cost was due to me backing it into a post in a car park and needing a new bumper then deciding the get the rear cross-piece replaced just to be sure that it was back to 100% - about £2k. Other than that, just a major service, an extra minor service (because I don't think 2 years is sensible) and some re-spraying after a delivery driver mistook my parked car for a gap.
Once I found out that I couldn't buy a new 991, the attraction has fallen off completely. There are even fewer manual 991s than 997s, it seems, and the attraction of the 991 was that I could spec it myself and so get the bucket seats and pretty much nothing else. Nobody seems to think that the 991 drives better than the 997, so I am not inclined to spend much more to get a similar car with a worse gearbox. I'll of course test drive a 991 just to be sure, but I doubt it will be so much better as to make me spend another £20k.
Perfectly good reasons to change car!
Perhaps some of your lack of love for the 991 is down to having driven the C4 variant. I don't doubt that the 991 is a bit more sanitised, but I would expect a 991 C2 to be at least much fun as a 997 C4 due to having only the correct wheels driven
It's a while since I drove a 997, but I do remember it feeling noticeably different from a 987, including that it was less flattering in corners and had even more traction on the way out. I found it slightly harder to drive quickly but perhaps a bit more engaging at normal speeds. This is all typical rear-engine vs mid-engine blah blah, I guess, but you don't have be at warp speed or trail braking or a driving God to notice the differences.
Why not look at a runout special 997? Would be about the same price as a lightly used 991 and probably a better prospect for holding value. Weren't there some GTS cars with a power kit and lots of cool pointless stuff in about 2010 or 2011? Prob cost 50-60k but a bit special.
Perhaps some of your lack of love for the 991 is down to having driven the C4 variant. I don't doubt that the 991 is a bit more sanitised, but I would expect a 991 C2 to be at least much fun as a 997 C4 due to having only the correct wheels driven
It's a while since I drove a 997, but I do remember it feeling noticeably different from a 987, including that it was less flattering in corners and had even more traction on the way out. I found it slightly harder to drive quickly but perhaps a bit more engaging at normal speeds. This is all typical rear-engine vs mid-engine blah blah, I guess, but you don't have be at warp speed or trail braking or a driving God to notice the differences.
Why not look at a runout special 997? Would be about the same price as a lightly used 991 and probably a better prospect for holding value. Weren't there some GTS cars with a power kit and lots of cool pointless stuff in about 2010 or 2011? Prob cost 50-60k but a bit special.
Mileage isn't a massive issue for me personally, but I agree that it should probably be reflected more in the price.
All work I had done to my 987 was through an OPC and therefore ruinously expensive, I am afraid! I wouldn't recommend it to you unless you need the OPC invoices for the purposes of selling your car back into the system. If you still want to know the exact details, though, I'll PM them.
Thanks for correcting me re the 4WD. I thought I might be spewing cliche and it turns out I was!
I have been sorely tempted by a 997 GTS in the past but agree re centre locks. I think it's a safe place to put money, though, to be honest. 'Specials' always do well even if not very special. It got rave reviews at the time.
All work I had done to my 987 was through an OPC and therefore ruinously expensive, I am afraid! I wouldn't recommend it to you unless you need the OPC invoices for the purposes of selling your car back into the system. If you still want to know the exact details, though, I'll PM them.
Thanks for correcting me re the 4WD. I thought I might be spewing cliche and it turns out I was!
I have been sorely tempted by a 997 GTS in the past but agree re centre locks. I think it's a safe place to put money, though, to be honest. 'Specials' always do well even if not very special. It got rave reviews at the time.
No idea what Baz is on about now
There are quite a few people on here who are excellent at spotting when a car is priced well, and there is even a reasonable chance that someone would pipe up and say "That was my car!". I am perfectly capable of filtering out the purely subjective or bonkers and taking in only the worthwhile input.
In any case, I am going to give the green 911 a look this weekend if it is still around.
There are quite a few people on here who are excellent at spotting when a car is priced well, and there is even a reasonable chance that someone would pipe up and say "That was my car!". I am perfectly capable of filtering out the purely subjective or bonkers and taking in only the worthwhile input.
In any case, I am going to give the green 911 a look this weekend if it is still around.
I took the green 997 for a drive today. Lovely engine, suspension felt fine to me, looked gorgeous in the real world. The interior was a bit worn even for a 50k mile car. A lot of people really don't take care when putting things in and out of cars it seems - loads of scuffing and scratching of the leather.
To my eye, a 997 interior with lots of leather is streets ahead of the 991 interior.
Handling was pretty similar to my 987, to be honest. I think people exaggerate the differences in ride and handling - it felt a bit lighter over the front wheels, a little less stable and a tiny bit less neutral (although I didn't really push hard enough to tell whether I prefer it or not).
As for the engine - lovely. The 3.8 is better than I remembered it. And PDK really does get in the way of appreciating these engines. Going from the manual 997 to my PDK car, it felt like a hundred metres of guff had been placed between my right foot and the engine. I don't think the 3.8 spins any less easily than the 3.4 and it copes better with the long gears.
To my eye, a 997 interior with lots of leather is streets ahead of the 991 interior.
Handling was pretty similar to my 987, to be honest. I think people exaggerate the differences in ride and handling - it felt a bit lighter over the front wheels, a little less stable and a tiny bit less neutral (although I didn't really push hard enough to tell whether I prefer it or not).
As for the engine - lovely. The 3.8 is better than I remembered it. And PDK really does get in the way of appreciating these engines. Going from the manual 997 to my PDK car, it felt like a hundred metres of guff had been placed between my right foot and the engine. I don't think the 3.8 spins any less easily than the 3.4 and it copes better with the long gears.
Beknown said:
Nice feedback, though I take it you are giving it a miss due to the poor condition of the interior?
You are right though, 997 with leather is much nicer than the 991.
My next concern regard picking a 997 is PASM or not to PASM, in other words 3.6 or 3.8 (all 3.8s have PASM). This may deserve a new thread on its own.
I am not sure. I did some more searching online last night, and decent manual 997.2 C2S cars are hard to find. If you rule out the white, black and grey/silver cars, you are down to several across the whole country. It is the best available at the moment. The colour is genuinely gorgeous in the metal. You are right though, 997 with leather is much nicer than the 991.
My next concern regard picking a 997 is PASM or not to PASM, in other words 3.6 or 3.8 (all 3.8s have PASM). This may deserve a new thread on its own.
It has PASM (although the spec didn't say so). It was perhaps slightly softer than the 987 but not much. I think it's quite pleasant for normal road driving. I think the complaints that people have are that it gets confused by trail braking and generally messes about with your own attempts to transfer weight and balance the car. Problem is that you would have to drive a PASM car quite hard to uncover this flaw, so I imagine you won't pick it up on a test drive.
Update: massively improved offer for my car and I may well be in the 997 this weekend. I am not massively fussed about the interior scuffing - I actually quite like that it shows its age slightly; it is in-keeping with the slightly old-fashioned look of the interior more generally.
If it bothers me, I'll throw silly money at tarting it up. I am not really very price-sensitive when it comes to upkeep or improvement (but am strangely very reluctant to take a hit at purchase time).
If it bothers me, I'll throw silly money at tarting it up. I am not really very price-sensitive when it comes to upkeep or improvement (but am strangely very reluctant to take a hit at purchase time).
uktrailmonster said:
That is funny, blinkers are fully on then! As it's OPC you are dealing with, I would point out the leather scuffs (they must be really obvious otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it before) and insist that they do something about it in the pre-sale prep. They won't want to lose the sale over it.
I don't trust OPCs with anything cosmetic. I even ban them from cleaning my car, as they employ 12 year-old drunks to do the cleaning and swirl the hell out of the paint.I would rather go direct to an expert for interior or paint renovation.
Photo out of the window 10 seconds ago. The colour is so f
king great in the metal. Now that I drive a manual 911, I'll mostly be posting two things:-
(1) PDK is for girls.
(2) The Cayman is a (wait for it) 'poor man's Porsche'.
So far, I love the engine, love the abundance of leather and think that I would be slightly faster in the Cayman on most roads. It feels far more willing to push into understeer than the Cayman, so I had better remember how to drive...
There are probably 2 answers to that question.
(1) It is more about how the car feels than actual on-limit performance. Hard to explain. In my experience, cars hint at how they'll behave if pushed even when only at 5/10s. And the 911s I have driven always seem a bit less planted at the front than the Caymans.
On the upside, they also seem to turn in more keenly.
(2) I expect you would have to be balls out to actually get it to understeer considerably on the road. Grip at both ends is absurd. In terms of outright grip, for road use, it's very similar to the Cayman, I think.
I may be talking crap. All perception, really.
I remember a test a few years back that showed that the 911 in fact beats the Cayman in a lot of technical handling challenges BUT all the test drivers felt happier and safer doing the tests in the Cayman. The 911 feels a bit less friendly.
(1) It is more about how the car feels than actual on-limit performance. Hard to explain. In my experience, cars hint at how they'll behave if pushed even when only at 5/10s. And the 911s I have driven always seem a bit less planted at the front than the Caymans.
On the upside, they also seem to turn in more keenly.
(2) I expect you would have to be balls out to actually get it to understeer considerably on the road. Grip at both ends is absurd. In terms of outright grip, for road use, it's very similar to the Cayman, I think.
I may be talking crap. All perception, really.
I remember a test a few years back that showed that the 911 in fact beats the Cayman in a lot of technical handling challenges BUT all the test drivers felt happier and safer doing the tests in the Cayman. The 911 feels a bit less friendly.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
As RobM77 is fond of telling us, tyres take a fair old slip angle at well below what we call the 'limit', so controlling weight transfers is beneficial even at modest speeds. So far, I haven't felt any need to trail the brakes on the 997, as turn in is excellent; but it feels like it would push wide if provoked in a slow corner. I might be wrong. If it does show that tendency, I will at least try just easing off the brakes a little later to keep more weight over the front wheels.I can't drive for s
t, but that's what it feels might be appropriate.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff