New breed of GT3 owner
Discussion
I think I must be one of the much maligned 'New Breed' GT3 owners, I've had my car since June 14 and never tracked it as frankly I'm too concerned about it getting damaged by either me or another track user. I'm not overly concerned by the mileage (currently just over 8,000) but I do wonder why so many cars are for sale on PH with ridiculously low miles. I use mine every day, to and from work, the shops etc. I'm not too concerned with residuals, I'm used to losing money on cars, I lost £30k on my Cayenne S diesel in 18 months.
Mine is comfort spec with PCCBs, lift, leather, carbon etc.(oh, and red stitching!!) which I'm very happy with as I'm not a track jockey but I do prefer the feel of the PCCBs and they do look rather cool - sad I know.
My car is currently at the OPC for warranty work (minute hand of the chrono clock fell off!!)and a campaign on the lift system, I've be loaned a 991 CS2 with a manual box and here's my main point - I really can't understand why anyone would choose a manual 7 speed over the pdk, if feels totally archaic to me, most modern race cars, to my knowledge, have semi-auto boxes so why do purists still want a manual? Surely if you want this type of car buy an old one without all the technology and enjoy.
The GT3 is my first 911, I've previously owned several R8's both manual and R Tronic (which was nowhere as good as the pdk) so do have previous experience of this type of car.
I know I'm going to get shot to pieces here but I just don't get it, perhaps this is why I'm a 'New Breed'!
Mine is comfort spec with PCCBs, lift, leather, carbon etc.(oh, and red stitching!!) which I'm very happy with as I'm not a track jockey but I do prefer the feel of the PCCBs and they do look rather cool - sad I know.
My car is currently at the OPC for warranty work (minute hand of the chrono clock fell off!!)and a campaign on the lift system, I've be loaned a 991 CS2 with a manual box and here's my main point - I really can't understand why anyone would choose a manual 7 speed over the pdk, if feels totally archaic to me, most modern race cars, to my knowledge, have semi-auto boxes so why do purists still want a manual? Surely if you want this type of car buy an old one without all the technology and enjoy.
The GT3 is my first 911, I've previously owned several R8's both manual and R Tronic (which was nowhere as good as the pdk) so do have previous experience of this type of car.
I know I'm going to get shot to pieces here but I just don't get it, perhaps this is why I'm a 'New Breed'!
Oso said:
You say you can't understand why folks choose manual over PDK - if that's a question, let me try to answer it.
I don't like the car deciding what gear I'm in. For example, if it changes gear mid-corner that can cause instability. Or if I'm on a slippery road I might want to keep it in third rather than have it decide to kick down to second when I get on the gas. OK I could put it in self-select mode and drive it like a clutch-less manual and address some of that (but not the kick-down issue BTW on the standard cars - GT3 might be different).
My GT3 will hold in manual mode but kick-down in auto which totally s
t me up (let alone my wife) once in the wet.
I've invested a lot of time in the skills required to drive a manual, heel-toe shifts, transitioning from left-foot braking to right-foot braking to change gear etc. Also in the roadcraft around planning what gear to be in. I enjoy using those skills. I want to be the one driving the car, not the computer, because that's part of the fun for me.
A Euro fighter pilot will be an epic pilot who has spent 1,000s of hour training in more basic aircraft but it's almost impossible to fly without numerous computers. I'm sure he would also love to fly a Spitfire with no such aids, this is progress.
I have been loaned a number of PDK cars and they are an engineering marvel. The gearboxes are strong, smooth, quick, the launch control is a hoot. They are quicker. They let you carry more speed into corners for less effort as you can be more focused on braking and steering without having to change gear. They are easier to drive around town or in slow moving motorway traffic. I've always had fun in them but always been glad to hand them back. They are just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. I think because changing gear manually for me is part of the fun, in its absence I have to work harder at the other aspects of driving to get the same amount of fun out the car. Something from the experience seems missing and out of balance and that leaves me feeling strangely cold.
This is obviously very subjective and I respect others opinions.
But that's just me.
BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around. It's probably the easiest 911 ever built to use on the track. On the one hand, I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into making that possible. On the other hand, I don't want my track car to flatter my driving. I want something that's transparent and raw, that rewards me for understanding it and working with it and shows up my mistakes so I can improve. I'm interested in developing speed through smoothness and efficiency and not in going fast simply because the car itself is so capable. So it's not just about the PDK - it's all the other electronic trickery that goes with it that often causes issues to folks like me that prefer a manual.
BTW - I think it's great that you use your GT3 every day. Do try to get it on the circuit if you can - you'll love it. If you are nervous about something going wrong there are tracks you can use that are very quiet and have big run-offs and pro coaches who'll be glad to take you out and help you develop. You'll learn a lot about your car - and yourself
I will give that a go, as you say, I'm sure there is a lot to learn.
I don't like the car deciding what gear I'm in. For example, if it changes gear mid-corner that can cause instability. Or if I'm on a slippery road I might want to keep it in third rather than have it decide to kick down to second when I get on the gas. OK I could put it in self-select mode and drive it like a clutch-less manual and address some of that (but not the kick-down issue BTW on the standard cars - GT3 might be different).
My GT3 will hold in manual mode but kick-down in auto which totally s
t me up (let alone my wife) once in the wet. I've invested a lot of time in the skills required to drive a manual, heel-toe shifts, transitioning from left-foot braking to right-foot braking to change gear etc. Also in the roadcraft around planning what gear to be in. I enjoy using those skills. I want to be the one driving the car, not the computer, because that's part of the fun for me.
A Euro fighter pilot will be an epic pilot who has spent 1,000s of hour training in more basic aircraft but it's almost impossible to fly without numerous computers. I'm sure he would also love to fly a Spitfire with no such aids, this is progress.
I have been loaned a number of PDK cars and they are an engineering marvel. The gearboxes are strong, smooth, quick, the launch control is a hoot. They are quicker. They let you carry more speed into corners for less effort as you can be more focused on braking and steering without having to change gear. They are easier to drive around town or in slow moving motorway traffic. I've always had fun in them but always been glad to hand them back. They are just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. I think because changing gear manually for me is part of the fun, in its absence I have to work harder at the other aspects of driving to get the same amount of fun out the car. Something from the experience seems missing and out of balance and that leaves me feeling strangely cold.
This is obviously very subjective and I respect others opinions.
But that's just me.
BTW I think the 991 GT3 is epic, one of the most astonishing cars around. It's probably the easiest 911 ever built to use on the track. On the one hand, I really appreciate the engineering that has gone into making that possible. On the other hand, I don't want my track car to flatter my driving. I want something that's transparent and raw, that rewards me for understanding it and working with it and shows up my mistakes so I can improve. I'm interested in developing speed through smoothness and efficiency and not in going fast simply because the car itself is so capable. So it's not just about the PDK - it's all the other electronic trickery that goes with it that often causes issues to folks like me that prefer a manual.
BTW - I think it's great that you use your GT3 every day. Do try to get it on the circuit if you can - you'll love it. If you are nervous about something going wrong there are tracks you can use that are very quiet and have big run-offs and pro coaches who'll be glad to take you out and help you develop. You'll learn a lot about your car - and yourself
I will give that a go, as you say, I'm sure there is a lot to learn.
Oso said:
sidicks said:
Yes, I understand that.
Also, you are right he is talking about the 991 GT3 but ALSO about the 991 C2S manual he was loaned as a courtesy car which I figured brought the 'regular' PDK box into the discussion i.e. why might you spec a non-GT 991 with a manual.[quote=Oso]OP I think your Typhoon/ Spitfire analogy is very interesting. The Typhoon is designed intentionally to be inherently unstable in low speed flight in order to enhance its manoeuvrability, with the computers assisting the pilot to control the aircraft. The pilots are of course trained in a succession of more complex aircraft that help develop their skills away from the computers. There are I think some interesting (although obviously imperfect) parallels with the 911. In some situations the rear mounted engine is helpful, in others a challenge; the electronic systems help manage those situations where it is challenging, the idea being to give the best of both worlds.
I love flying too and am learning in a Cirrus which is packed full of pilot assistance systems - I am certainly not against them per se!!
Cirrus, very nice also with the ultimate 'Airframe Parachute System' get out of jail card, cool planes with all the toys
I love flying too and am learning in a Cirrus which is packed full of pilot assistance systems
- I am certainly not against them per se!!Cirrus, very nice also with the ultimate 'Airframe Parachute System' get out of jail card, cool planes with all the toys
sidicks said:
jh001ace said:
That was my point, not GT3 specific, just pdk vs manual.
Fair enough, in that case I apologise.(But I think there are plenty of reasons to favour a good manual over a poor (or event quite good) automatic!
Why oh why do all GT3 posts seem to turn into a bun fight, the original post was not supposed to wind anyone up, I personally just don't see the logic of a technically advance car like the 991 GT3 with a manual box... Just my view.. Not saying I'm right.
Could a Typhoon be piloted by control lines or simple hydraulics?? No, it's just progress, if you want analogue control lines go jump in a Spitfire if you are lucky enough to own one.
Could a Typhoon be piloted by control lines or simple hydraulics?? No, it's just progress, if you want analogue control lines go jump in a Spitfire if you are lucky enough to own one.
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