Cayman GT4 Is it quick enough?

[bigmowley]

Really spending some quality time with my GT4 now it's fullIy run in. It's a lovely car but it does feel a bit slow!
As an £80K- £100K car it's not actually that quick. It is nowhere compared to a 991GT3, and it's not as much fun as my 997-2 GT3. Why?
It may well be that it is damm quick but it's so composed that it doesn't feel it?
The big flat torque curve and lack of high rev sparkle make it feel slow.

Incidentally where the hell does all the fuel go? Mine uses more fuel than any GT3 I have owned and I have had nearly all of them. The lovely interior obviously takes a lot of dragging about.




That is a quick strop over some lovely roads but with due deference to Cup2's and cold slightly damp roads.

10 MPG! Even my V10 M5 was better than that.

[bigmowley]

av185 said:

Collecting mine this week and hopefully it should prove a better road car overall than the 991 GT3 which in some situations is just too quick.....and apart from the PDK box easing congestion driving is actually a bit crap a slow speed and sounds it too (unless Sharkwerk exhaust enhanced or se actuators are disconnected).

Would view the GT4 perhaps in the same light as the 997 GTS being perhaps the perfect mix of fast and slow for road use......sounds great too!

Maybe those unhappy with the GT4 feeling too slow should have gone for a Spyder (981).

Agree wholeheartedly about the Spyder. Better choice to enjoy the whole interaction.
The outside noise of the GT4 is way better than the inside. It's on a par with the 991GT3 for borderline civility, there is a horrible wheezy intake noise all the time that drowns out the stereo, a few people have pointed it out, as well as all the bump thump, vibration and general rumble. The lovely exhaust note is rather lost.
Incidentally I love all the NVH, it's what reminds you it's a "proper" Porsche GT car.
As a better road car than the 991 GT3 it's not (assuming you ignore price). They are very very similar in many ways but you loose the feral aggression of the 991 in full chat. You pays your money and you makes your choice.

[bigmowley]

acey81 said:

Not sure if trolling, but I guess is it "quick enough" is only for you to judge. Looking at the numbers and the acclaim from pretty much all corners of the motoring world and winner of the ECOTY, my guess is that it will be enough for most people. MPG seems to be around 20-25, 10 on the road seems pretty extreme. Maybe there is something wrong with it?

There will always be faster cars. My tip is to buy a GT-R and tune it if "fast" is all you want.

Not trolling at all.
Just doesn't feel that quick! I know it's subjective and "fast" is Deffo not what it's about. I have other things on slicks for proper quick. It's about feeling fast and it just doesn't. I think its the power delivery which is very different to previous GT cars. It's like a very quick diesel!

[bigmowley]

mollytherocker said:

bigmowley said:

Not trolling at all.
Just doesn't feel that quick! I know it's subjective and "fast" is Deffo not what it's about. I have other things on slicks for proper quick. It's about feeling fast and it just doesn't. I think its the power delivery which is very different to previous GT cars. It's like a very quick diesel!

Ok, I see what you are talking about. I guess it is because this engine is tuned for mid range punch as opposed to a rising peaky crescendo, like other GT's.

Precisely which is why a more highly tuned 3.4L might have been a better bet? Who was it that used to rabbit about that all the time?

[bigmowley]

A few more musings on this topic.
Its still not quick enough to really thrill but it is great fun to hoon about in in low grip conditions. It reminds me of my much loved Subaru STi Type R from about 15 years ago which was a lightweight import with circa 320BHP and 1200KG. In the Scooby you get the rear diff locked up and drive everywhere steering on the throttle with a massive grin. The GT4 is very similar especially with the first level of DSC disabled. It has got a very faithful tail and lovely steering to balance things out. It goes something like this, sight bend, brake and change down to a ridiculously low gear, turn in, boot throttle hard whilst winding off the lock, steer on throttle, giggle and repeat until you run out of fuel, (not long!). Not the fastest way from A-B but bloody good fun.
The other thing I am getting used to is using a gear lower in almost every situation, I am using first on a regular basis now and it does help to keep the engine on the boil. Overall it is a very different car to a 997GT3. Not worse mind you just very very different to get the most giggles from.
Not sure how long the rear pads are going to last, the back brakes do seem to do a lot of un-requested work. Still get the odd cloud of smoke after a blat about.

[bigmowley]

GT4P said:

Incedently you don't read of many complaints of the "long gearing" in the. 981 Spyder either

Yes but the Spyder and its ilk are cars to enjoy the journey. The GT4 is a car to enjoy the drive, different proposition.

Interesting point about the gearing on 996GT3 being almost the same. I cannot remember that far back but I think the reward for keeping the old Mezger lump in the higher rev range was much greater than the GT4 lump thus adding to the entertainment and interactivity.
It's a fair point that quibbling about the gearing is a fairly minor point in a lovely car, and yes it's not a "slow" car but it's frustrating that it could be that little bit better! means we will all rush out and buy the next one.

[bigmowley]

mollytherocker said:

Reading this thread shows how different people define 'fast' or 'quick'.

Lap time?
Top speed?
Quarter mile?
Sensation of acceleration at certain revs?
Low down torque?
High rev rush?

What are we talking about?

Been pondering this question for a day or two. For me I always get a tinge of disappointment in third gear towards the top of the rev range. It starts to feel a bit slow! Analyse that a bit more and the flat torque curve and the lack of extra high rev zing to the motor all contribute. I would happily trade a bit of bottom end torque for a more rev hungry top end even if that meant it was slower low down.

Not had chance to track it yet but when I do I expect that on fast open circuits the closely stacked higher gears and lovely handling will make it a peach. Bet it feels mighty slow up the Kemmel straight though
I am splitting hairs here though. It's a lovely lovely car and judged to perfection for its market position. It could be just a tiny bit better. Roll on the RS ( or a bit of light tuning!)

[bigmowley]

I think the fully optimum solution to this first world conundrum is clearly a bit of light tuning to liberate another 30 or 40 BHP along with a bit more top end enthusiasm. The base engine is clearly up to scratch so it's intake system for more breathing, possibly but not necessarily an exhaust and a thorough remap. It's a long time to wait for the Porsche warranty to expire!

[bigmowley]

mollytherocker said:

lemmingjames said:

See Honda S2000 or the CTR/DC5 then?

The S2000 engine is nuts! I love it. Its almost F1 screamy!

Lovely chassis too....

It's a dreadful chassis that lets go so sharply at the back that it's almost impossible to drive at the limit. Not my cup of tea.

[bigmowley]

mollytherocker said:

bigmowley said:

It's a dreadful chassis that lets go so sharply at the back that it's almost impossible to drive at the limit. Not my cup of tea.

Its excessively oversteery, and thats a good thing!

No it's not if you cannot hold it, balance it with the throttle and bring it back without any drama. I always managed to catch the S2000 but it usually involved much sawing away at the steering and a nasty mark in my pants.

[bigmowley]

Forget the 911 "power kit" type options. Whatever we do has to be bespoke to the Cayman due to the compact nature of the install esp on the intake side. There should be no need to delve inside the engine, the cost benefit ratio goes out of the window at that point. A properly developed intake, with a big throttle body along with a retuned exhaust to match and a thorough remap will be just right. It's not the work of a moment as there will be much work avoid any holes in the torque curve, not easy on these engines, hence the very complex standard variable geometry intake system. But on the plus side the variable valve timing is nice and adjustable. The standard engine cover may need to be "adjusted" as it's mighty tight under there.
Once someone has done the development work it should all be bolt on and enjoy a 420BHP GT4.

[bigmowley]

Nice to see my thread resurrected after a short pause whilst everyone gets a few miles in.
I am still of the same view that I had when I started this thread that the standard GT4 just doesn't feel quick enough at the top end of the rev range. The overall package is brilliant but I just feel it could be that bit better!

A really good Porsche n/a engine should sing with joy at the top of the rev range and this tune just doesn't. This combined with the abysmal fuel economy (worse than my 997GT3 or my 991GT3) makes me convinced that it will be easy to liberate the extra top end fireworks.

How brave do I have to be to toss the warranty into the bin and fit the induction kit, exhaust and remap that people are raving about in America? What is the likely effect on resale? I have modified and raced cars for years but generally I start with something a bit older. There is defiantly a psychological barrier to hacking away at what is a lovely (brand new by my standards) car.

Or sack off the GT4 and get another GT3???? Tricky.

Off to Spa on 6th May with Goldtrack. It will be moan moan moan about the lack of grunt all the way up the Kemmel straight and then forget to breath all the way back down to La Source happy days.