981 Spyder or GT4 ?

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Noticed that there is relatively little said about the new 981 Spyder compared to the GT4. The new roof mechanism looks a lot simpler than before, and if EVO's video on the mechanism is anything to go by, it looks relatively painless. The Spyder looks drop dead gorgeous, offers near GT4 performance and dynamics albeit without GT3 steering. It has been suggested it is more limited in numbers, is not GT motorsport built (nice for mental kudos only?), and initial very illiquid market values suggest it holds less of a premium compared to the GT4... not sure about longer term though.

Already have a daily/family wagon, and am debating between the 981 Spyder and GT4 as a 2nd car for weekends and sunny days, 2-up touring, and solo hoons. It has been 10 years since my last convertible (an MX5!) and top down motoring across Europe was some of the best memories - although I do wonder if this was more about youth than anything else. I still get proper adrenaline kicks on the motorbikes, have done the whole GT3/trackday scene already, so more interested in driver involvement and the overall experience rather than searching out the last second around the Ring.

The GT4 may be the obvious choice, but is it?

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mdianuk said:

A more potent question would be do you already have a build slot?.

Yes

Davey S2 said:

Not that I'm in the market but I'd go with the Spyder as I'd want the car for long euro trips where having the roof off is lovely.

GT4 if you intend to do more track days.

This is my thinking, but the practicalities of the Spyder roof for all other times are the only hindrance. The fact that both cars are almost the same price does not help!

PorscheGT4 said:

"so more interested in driver involvement and the overall experience "

987.2 Spyder no question.

Sorry, but the 981 generation is the first decent looking Boxster I would consider. And having come from a 997.2 TurboS, the 987.2 is underpowered imho.

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PorscheGT4 said:

spareparts said:

Sorry, but the 981 generation is the first decent looking Boxster I would consider. And having come from a 997.2 TurboS, the 987.2 is underpowered imho.

don't post crap like "so more interested in driver involvement and the overall experience " then ;-)

Edited by PorscheGT4 on Wednesday 25th November 16:53

The thread is about the 981 Spyder vs GT4. Accelerative performance is absolutely part of "the overall experience" and the 987.2 engine does not offer the level of performance I am looking for. And if you think the 987.2 Cayman R offers exceptional 'driver involvement', I can assure you that my old Manthey 996.1 GT3 with Uniball top mounts, KW suspension, and many other modifications makes your 987.2 Cayman R feel like an anaesthetised Cadillac in comparison.

I have a fair degree of experience with Porsche, and both the GT4 and 981 Spyder are the first cars in a long time from Porsche to get me slightly interested again. Interestingly, the GT4 offers near identical weight and power stats compared to the 996.2 GT3...

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Steve Rance said:

It's an impressive testament to the ability of the 981 chasis that Porsche can effectively cut the roof off of it and produce such a beautifully handling car as the Spyder without sacrificing a huge chunk of weight.

Most decent open topped sports cars have un stressed bodies fixed to a seperate monocoque chassis (Lotus Elise etc.) I think that it would be a mistake to under estimate the Spyders dynamic capabilities. I think that it's a very good car.

Steve,
Have you driven the 981 Spyder? If so, what were your thoughts of it?

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RSVP911 said:

I think the op's opening question is a tricky one - I agree there is so much hype about the Gt4 , but to me the Spyder will be a more interesting (and far rarer) car - I guess as said earlier ; it all depends on end use - If its euro trips and Sunday blasts - it has to be the Spyder every time - If its serious track work its the 4 .

I'm driving the Spyder at the PEC on Saturday - I'll let you know what I think

I've toured through Europe on extreme superbikes, and in my old GT3, and I imagine the GT4 is a far more refined drive in comparison. I'm not sure how much less comfortable it is compared to the Spyder... the suspension is almost the same?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the PEC Spyder drive!

Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 25th November 21:53

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av185 said:

These are both incredible cars and either would be the right choice.

After reading the Ecoty result placing the GT4 first and stating it was a 'masterpiece' from Porsche, I was sceptical it was the usual magazine hype but am now inclined to agree...the GT4 is one hell of a car and an absolute hoot to drive. Whilst being of identical effective width as a 911, it nevertheless feels so much smaller....a true junior supercar and fantastic value.

The Spyder is equally as involving as the 4 but in different ways. If anything, it is a more visceral experience probably due to the soft top, but the increased awareness of engine, road and exhaust are a delight. This probably makes up for the less hardcore handling characteristics due to lack of GT3 front chassis compared to the 4 but in the real world of quick open A and B road blasts there is little between the two.

As a long term proposition I would probably vote Spyder perhaps also partly influenced by rarity and the fact it will doubtless be the true last of a line n.a engine as the next gen will probably be a turbo as it is a non G T car.

Good post - and you've hit my dilemma on the head as to why I'm struggling to choose between them.

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RSVP911 said:

I guess one question is ; have you got an option on a slot for either - if not , the cost to own differential would be substantial - if this is the case it's another reason to go for the Spyder - if not , I can't help you , sorry

Yes, for both.

boringbeige said:

I got my Spyder a week ago. Have done a thousand miles already! It's ace. Much better than I expected. It's plenty quick enough for UK country roads and the narrow tyres (compared to GT4) really allow the 3.8 torque to express itself. It sounds mega too.

You raise a good point about the tyres. My previous 997.2 GTS4 felt overtyred with the amount of mechanical grip and relative lack of torque it offered. Then my 997.2 Turbo S solved that issue, but it introduced a new problem that revealed itself over time and was a reason I got bored with Porsches: it was simply too fast for the public road before it became exciting enough to hold your attention (and the BIB!). By the time I sold it earlier this year, it was merely a form of transport; and driving the 7.2 TurboS at 3/10ths offers as much interest as driving a Mondeo.

The Spyder and GT4 appeal because I think 400hp, 2wd, and upto-300 section tyres is about the optimum you can realistically enjoy on the public road and have proper fun in without needing to break 150mph for thrills. We've seen this formula used to great effect by some great cars in the past. It is too easy to have too much power, and Porsche are to be lauded for restraint on the Gt4/Spyder power outputs.

About a dozen years since the 996GT3 started cleaning up E/COTY awards, it's telling that the same simple basic formula still wins despite the enormous advances in power outputs and chassis electrickery in the latest 2015 cars.

Edited by spareparts on Thursday 26th November 10:21

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PorscheGT4 said:

My 3rd TT now , great cars, fastest cars A to B

PorscheGT4, We are not interested in your Audi TT - there is an Audi forum for that. This is about the 981 Spyder and GT4.

ChrisW. said:

I think the Spyder is going to be a very scarce car but much closer in character to the previous Spyder than the GT4 is the Cayman R.

For example, no GT3 suspension, smaller brakes making PCCB an even more viable option ... and it makes a lightly used previous model Spyder a bargain unless you really need the extra grunt ...

Unlike the GT4 which at retail is a very exciting car ... and huge step up on the R ...

On public roads driven anywhere up to 8-9/10s, I do wonder how much the Spyder gives away to the GT4. I do wonder if the merits of the GT3 front end may only become apparent when really pushing the limits on track. Do the control arms and steering rack really add anything significant on the road? But in all other situations, the same engine, same chassis, same interior - surely these are dominant factors to the overall enjoyment/driving experience? (And before one takes into consideration the roof-off experience)

The appeal of the Spyder is that it seems to take the best bits of the last NA 911 engine, packed into the same excellent chassis of the Boxster/Cayman, adds a gorgeous mini-918 Spyder body, and then suspends it all on the sportiest suspension/chassis set up - same as GT4. The fractional reduction in tyre width can only be a good thing on the road too - offering more delicate feedback and adjustability perhaps... The 2.7RS's legendary steering/handling feel makes do with skinny tyres.

The next Boxster/Cayman may well see 4 cylinder turbo'd engines (and maybe lose "Boxster/Cayman" naming in the same process?). In which case the adoption of the biggest NA engine from a 911 may well secure the Spyder and GT4's legendary status, dry sump or not!

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nsm3 said:

Agreed, but would add, on public roads, I doubt either give much away to an S/GTS or for that matter, a base car?

The 911 3.8 engine offers loads more. +45-60hp and +45lbft torque increases in a NA engine, manual only, over the same rev ranges make an enormous difference over the standard Boxster/Cayman. And the chassis sits a lot lower to make the most of the increased power.

These factors plus their rarity justify the premium imho.

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nsm3 said:

Ok, I may have gone too far including the base car, but having had a 355bhp/3.8 a 415bhp/3.6 and now a 325bhp/3.4, for public roads, there really isn't much in it. At Spa, I'm sure the differences will be huge.

I think the extra 10-15% torque available through the midrange will make the biggest difference in give and take driving when comparing equivalent weight Boxsters, even if the Spyder is lighter by a small amount. Differences at Spa are largely irrelevant imho if comparing Boxsters, although the extra HP of the Spyder definitely would make itself felt.

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av185 said:

As previously mentioned, the real A or B road driving and performance difference between the two is miniscule....perhaps the same as the 997 RS 3.8 to the 4.0 RS difference. But clearly the GT4 front chassis in particular is more suited to track.

The other aspect is usability. Whilst the GT4 could quite easily be used as a daily, the greatest restriction is not unlike the 991 GT3 without lift, and whilst the splitter appears perhaps half a centimetre higher (than the GT3),the front brake cooling ducts on all three are identical in height off the road. The splitter on the Spyder is 1 cm higher than the GT4 which clearly makes it more usable for e.g weekends away etc.

Finally it is also worth remembering what Porsche intend for the next gen model hierarchy. The Boxster being a cab thus far has been somewhat bizarrly priced less than the 2 door coupe Cayman. The Cayman has never sold in anything like the numbers of the Box so there will effectively be a role reversal for gen 2 with the Box being the dearer car therefore rendering it far more profitable for them.It may well therefore be the case that the 981.2 GTS could well end up being dearer than the current Spyder as well as suffering the ignonimity of a 4 pot 'turbine' engine. Making the current Spyder a serious bargain and highly collectable not least due to its rarity as well.

Having driven both the 3.8RS and the 4.0RS at their traction limits, I would be surprised if the difference was that great considering the Spyder and GT4 share the same engine, although the Spyder produces only less than 3% less top end HP. The 4.0 had significantly more than the 3.8 pretty much everywhere... too much imho for really exploitable fast trackwork. I though the 3.8RS was a much sweeter and better balanced drive, but that's another story.

Any coupe could be used daily, as could the Spyder be used daily as long as one drove with the roof up all the time. When I had a lowered 6.1GT3 with larger Cup brake ducts, speedhumps and access was never an issue - even the dreaded ferries were successfully negotiated with a diagonal approach instead of straight on. So I don't think the fractional differences between either Spyder or GT4 will be an issue.

I'm struggling here between the two - I suspect the differences will be more about overall feel and approachability of both vehicles. Whilst the GT4 is bold and brash, I suspect the Spyder will deliver it's message more quietly - although both would be equally quick in give/take fast road situations with similar dynamics. Over the long run, I wonder if the Spyder may hold more allure and charm on long drives... although there is no denying that the 'GT' moniker will forever remain the attraction and stir interest. After 60 votes on the poll, a 2/3 split is closer than I thought it might be. Maybe the answer to the original question is 'both'. The Spyder is evocative. GT4, the mini-GT3.

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I was referring to the poll results being 2/3 in favour of the GT4 over 1/3 the Spyder. I would have thought the poll would have been more heavily in favour of the GT4. I abstained from voting in the poll as I'm in favour of both cars, for different reasons, for similar reasons posted by others in this thread. Was interested to hear others thoughts on the choices between both cars.

When it has come to spec'ing the cars, it is tempting to spec the GT4 with the pure performance options, and then the Spyder with the comfort oriented options. Maybe that betrays the experience expected... I just don't know which one will be the keeper over the long term.

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Now that the GT4 and Spyder have/are coming to an end, what are peoples' thoughts on this? GT4 held a lead a few months back, but is sentiment for the Spyder in our glorious English summer weather still the same?

So come on lads, a half a year in... GT4 or Spyder?

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mdianuk said:

Production continues, but only a few months left.

Pointless poll really, all down to personal opinion, and whilst I only enjoy my car on the nice days, so a soft top would make sense, I still wouldn't be able to cope with that stupid roof (as it would need to be closed when I finish playing), so for me, on that and a few other reasons, it has to be the GT4.

Your considerations of a manual roof are fair. I'm interested in when you say "a few other reasons" - what may they be? There's no right/wrong answer to this and everyone has their own reasons. Curious to know what they may be. And in terms of production, the GT4 is coming to an end about now (although deliveries will be staggered over the next couple months) as is the Spyder.