Struggling with PDK
Discussion
Is it acceptable to spend most of your time instructing the car to change gear when the car has an automatic gearbox? I don’t know if it’s just me but I am really struggling.
The two scenarios where PDK is efficient; stop start traffic, the race track.
The problem I am having is the in-between driving, where you want to make good progress. The reality is the car is always in the wrong gear and I’m having to exert myself constantly to drive in a manner you would expect of a careful and competent driver.
This is easy in a manual car as you can make use of revs, torque, anticipation and block shifting to make good consistent progress with minimal effort, minimal fuel consumption and maximum enjoyment.
Unlike PDK which if left to its own devices changes up when feathering the throttle, cornering, or even mid-overtake. This is in addition to the fact that PDK does not have a pair of eyes nor does it know your intentions, so if left to its own devices it will get caught out when you meet a hazard.
This is my first automatic so I am still open to enlightenment but I’m guessing my options are; suck it up or attempt to buy a manual (rare as they are)?
The two scenarios where PDK is efficient; stop start traffic, the race track.
The problem I am having is the in-between driving, where you want to make good progress. The reality is the car is always in the wrong gear and I’m having to exert myself constantly to drive in a manner you would expect of a careful and competent driver.
This is easy in a manual car as you can make use of revs, torque, anticipation and block shifting to make good consistent progress with minimal effort, minimal fuel consumption and maximum enjoyment.
Unlike PDK which if left to its own devices changes up when feathering the throttle, cornering, or even mid-overtake. This is in addition to the fact that PDK does not have a pair of eyes nor does it know your intentions, so if left to its own devices it will get caught out when you meet a hazard.
This is my first automatic so I am still open to enlightenment but I’m guessing my options are; suck it up or attempt to buy a manual (rare as they are)?
Paddles, buttons, PDK gear selector; whichever input you use you are still doing the cars job are you not? In which case why not buy a manual and save yourself a lot of time and effort?
Still using the paddles without switching over to manual mode only works for a few seconds before the car decides you didn't want that gear after all.
E.g. Drop a gear in preparation to overtake, mirror, signal, maneuver, oh wait I'm now in the wrong gear!
Sometimes when I do switch over to manual mode I end up sitting on the rev limiter because I'm use to the gearbox normally doing its own thing and shifting up.
You can call it user error if you like, but my question is does anyone else have this problem and if so what did you do to resolve it?
Still using the paddles without switching over to manual mode only works for a few seconds before the car decides you didn't want that gear after all.
E.g. Drop a gear in preparation to overtake, mirror, signal, maneuver, oh wait I'm now in the wrong gear!
Sometimes when I do switch over to manual mode I end up sitting on the rev limiter because I'm use to the gearbox normally doing its own thing and shifting up.
You can call it user error if you like, but my question is does anyone else have this problem and if so what did you do to resolve it?
Probably, but it was hard to find a nice manual example and I've never owned an automatic so I can put this down to experience.
I'll persevere but in the mean time any advice would be appreciated, failing that I'll swap it for a 997.
Edited to add, the car is a 981S with sports chrono, £63k new so lots of nice options and a great colour.
I'll persevere but in the mean time any advice would be appreciated, failing that I'll swap it for a 997.
Edited to add, the car is a 981S with sports chrono, £63k new so lots of nice options and a great colour.
ATM said:
Gerber1 said:
Thanks for all your input.
I have come to the conclusion that I am not the target audience of PDK.
I am going to sell the car although it may be difficult as I have only had it two weeks, it will be replaced with a manual 997.
Have you tried leaving it in Sport?I have come to the conclusion that I am not the target audience of PDK.
I am going to sell the car although it may be difficult as I have only had it two weeks, it will be replaced with a manual 997.
Most modern cars have a serious eco mode. Standard mode in a 981 is like eco mode. I only use standard [or eco] in stop start traffic. If I have any intention of pressing on then I leave it in sport. I never use sport plus. I rarely use the paddles. I dont have true paddles - I have the heated steering wheel.
The problem is I can lap my manual 987 round the ring in exactly the same time as Porsche test drivers can, so in hindsight I am not the target audience of PDK.
I also said I have never owned an automatic so I will chalk it up to experience. I am already looking forward to getting a nice 997 with a manual box, I think it will be the faster car compared to my 981S simply because it'll always be in the correct gear and the chassis is far more communicative and confidence inspiring.
That's the last time I let my head rule my heart!
I also said I have never owned an automatic so I will chalk it up to experience. I am already looking forward to getting a nice 997 with a manual box, I think it will be the faster car compared to my 981S simply because it'll always be in the correct gear and the chassis is far more communicative and confidence inspiring.
That's the last time I let my head rule my heart!
Cobnapint said:
boxsey said:
Gerber1 said:
The problem is I can lap my manual 987 round the ring in exactly the same time as Porsche test drivers can, so in hindsight I am not the target audience of PDK.
Crikey that's a bold statement to make!blueg33 said:
Cobnapint said:
blueg33 said:
Am I missing something? Surely in manual mode its manual, you change using the paddles rather than a stick, but its still manual.
When I test drove a pdk Cayman gets, I thought the gearbox was amazing, in manual mode I could do my favourite roads quicker than in the manual evora, but it was less engaging than using a clutch pedal and a stick
No, you've not missed anything.When I test drove a pdk Cayman gets, I thought the gearbox was amazing, in manual mode I could do my favourite roads quicker than in the manual evora, but it was less engaging than using a clutch pedal and a stick
He probably needs to practice with the car. I have just changed my Evora to an S IPS (auto with paddles and latest software), not quite as good as pdk, but its just like a manual in sport mode, it only changes when you tell it too, and it changes way faster than I ever could, but I have found that I need practice, mainly because I am not used to pulling a paddle.
Paul_M3 said:
Gerber1 said:
Yes you have missed something, even in manual mode the car will change gear without you asking it to. PDK-S what is being described elsewhere in this thread sounds much better.
No it won't. This has been explained more than once, yet you keep saying it. You're wrong. The only time it will change gear without a request is to prevent stalling.Will contact my OPC.
Well I see some people’s egos were bruised during one of my previous posts, but yes I was having great fun on a beach although I hope my post didn’t ruin anyone’s Christmas.
Still I stand by my previous comment, nobody who can use a manual gearbox proficiently would choose the flappy paddle variant over it.
Almost a month in and I suppose I can drive the car in a slightly more controlled manner but the gearbox is still disobedient and a joyless way to drive, I feel more like the ‘vehicle operator’ than the driver.
PDK, for people who can’t drive or don’t care about driving.
Still I stand by my previous comment, nobody who can use a manual gearbox proficiently would choose the flappy paddle variant over it.
Almost a month in and I suppose I can drive the car in a slightly more controlled manner but the gearbox is still disobedient and a joyless way to drive, I feel more like the ‘vehicle operator’ than the driver.
PDK, for people who can’t drive or don’t care about driving.
Maxym said:
blueg33 said:
Its just as easy to remember which gear its in with either paddles or a stick.
+1As I have explained in previous posts you can select your chosen gear, only for the car to decide you didn’t really want that gear after all.
For example I want a swift but not aggressive overtake so I push the selector into manual mode and drop from 7th to 4th gear, mirror, signal, manoeuvre – the car now drops to 2nd gear because I’ve applied more than 2/3rd throttle.
Another scenario, I’m approaching a curve at 50mph, traction is limited so with the selector in manual mode I downshift to 3rd and not 2nd in order to aid traction. As the car is exiting the corner and I straighten up the steering wheel I gradually apply the throttle – the car now drops into 2nd, the tyres become overwhelmed and the car goes into an unwanted oversteer skid.
I’m pretty sure that if you drove a manual car the way PDK drives then you would fail your driving test (if not definitely your advanced), which ultimately is my point of the thread and why I originally asked for help and advice.
ATM said:
I read somewhere on PH - so it must be true - some guy mentioned he was at a Porsche track event playing in modern Caysters and he asked one of the Porsche instructor types about using the manual mode and he said its better to just leave it in auto because the car is clever-er-er than the human driving.
The car is not smarter than the human driving, it doesn’t have eyes and it doesn’t know your intentions for a start. However on track you want to be in the lowest gear possible for the road speed and you want the changes to be as late as possible, therefore it’s much easier and quicker to just leave it in Sports Plus.Pope said:
Try the dynamic downshift; at the point where you think you need to shift; tap your foot on the accelerator - the systems see the speed of throttle application and select a lower gear. Best tested in the seat rather than explained in a sentence......as the effect can vary depending on how far and how fast the pedal is pressed; described as a 'stab' is probably most fitting.
OP is not using the box correctly.
MANUAL MODE: select D then move lever across to M, the box will select the lowest gear for pulling away and will allow the driver to decide when to change gear within the parameters 'from idle>redline'.
In Manual; if you shift to 6th (if the road speed allows - as the parameters still apply) you can lug the car around very inefficiently to your hearts content; similarly you can hold 2nd til your ears bleed if you like.
MANUAL OVERRIDE MODE: When in D, initiate a gear change with the paddle and you have a predetermined time to select another gear before D is resumed - watch the gear display; press paddle; M and selected gear light up; continue driving without further intervention and the original program resumes - you have left MANUAL OVERRIDE MODE
Depending on SPORT / SPORT PLUS (if spec'd) or PSM Off selection the systems can allow you to get close to or sit on the limiter if you wish.
On cars with COAST mode; lifting off the throttle gently at speed will open the clutch and the car will coast along on idle - by either braking, accelerating or pressing a gear paddle the clutch is re-engaged again giving another facet to the system.
Thanks Pope, however it’s not a case of me using the box incorrectly. I’m aware of the manual mode and the manual override mode, and I’m aware of the ‘stab’ as you describe it.OP is not using the box correctly.
MANUAL MODE: select D then move lever across to M, the box will select the lowest gear for pulling away and will allow the driver to decide when to change gear within the parameters 'from idle>redline'.
In Manual; if you shift to 6th (if the road speed allows - as the parameters still apply) you can lug the car around very inefficiently to your hearts content; similarly you can hold 2nd til your ears bleed if you like.
MANUAL OVERRIDE MODE: When in D, initiate a gear change with the paddle and you have a predetermined time to select another gear before D is resumed - watch the gear display; press paddle; M and selected gear light up; continue driving without further intervention and the original program resumes - you have left MANUAL OVERRIDE MODE
Depending on SPORT / SPORT PLUS (if spec'd) or PSM Off selection the systems can allow you to get close to or sit on the limiter if you wish.
On cars with COAST mode; lifting off the throttle gently at speed will open the clutch and the car will coast along on idle - by either braking, accelerating or pressing a gear paddle the clutch is re-engaged again giving another facet to the system.
It’s a case of “I know how to use it, these are the faults, does anyone know of any solutions?”
Ultimately many of you think it’s acceptable to instruct the car to change gear even though it has a manual gearbox, I do not.
Naïve? Maybe. I will sell the car and buy something with a manual gearbox, but at least I gave a PlayStation style car a try with my own money and didn't just drive it for 30 minutes and then slag it off on the internet.
Hope you all have a happy new year
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