Almost sold my Tuscan due to poor handling! Fixed for £20!

[MPETT]

I sold my beloved Chimeara last year to buy my dream car (Tuscan Mk1 2004 4.0). With only 8k on the clock, it was immaculate.

I only drove it for 500miles before the wintr set in, but wasn't happy with the twitchyness of the steering. Where I live the side of the roads are terrible and as soon as the wheel dropped into a hole the steering would snatch to the left.

I had the geometry looked at, but it was spot on.

It was by coincidence that I talked to Mat from Silverstone Performance. He reccomended I fit some spacers on the front wheels. I forgot to buy some for agees, but finally got round to it last weekend.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! I can now hold the steering wheel with one hand without fear that the car will jump into the field! I was so close to selling her because I felt on edge every time I drove her. Now there is no chance!

Mat explained that the 18" spiders have the wrong offset due to some homologation issues TVR had with the bigger wheels.

Anyway, having told Mat how happy I was with the difference it made, he decided to make up some decent bespoke spacers to fit the 5 stud TVR hubs. (the Halfords ones I used were a bit pants-Generic/loose fitting).

I thought I'd pass on this experience and hopefully stop someone else who might have been thinking about selling their beautiful, but poor handling TVR.

Cheers,

Martin

p.s. I'm one of the co-organisers of ROAR 2010. Silverstone Performance have told me that they will be bringing some spacers with them to ROAR 2010 (www.TVRRoar.co.uk) for those of you who might be interested.

[MPETT]

Hi Night Rider,

I fitted 3mm spacers from Halfords. However the generic ones are a bit pants and don't fit that well (although they do do the job).

For the same price as the Halfords ones you can get some bespoke super lightweight alloy ones from Mat at Silverstone Performance. Email him on [e-mail] and he will send you a set and change the handling of your car! (sorry for the plug, but I always try to be supportive of our small TVR specialist industry experts)

Cheers,

Martin

[MPETT]

The wheels are 18" spiders with standard factory tyre sizes. (toyo T1S)

[MPETT]

In simple terms, it just makes it feel right!

[MPETT]

The key thing is that the tyres/wheels are mounted such that there is an equal amout of tyre tread either side of the king pin in the front upright. As the wheels are steered/turned, they rotate around the upright/king pin.

There needs to be an equal ammount of tyre either side of the centre of rotation/king pin, or else there is increased rolling resistance on one side. This is why the wheel's offest is so important. Increasing the tyre width will just make an incorrect offset feel worse.

[MPETT]

rens914 said:

hey guys
sounds good
had some 30 mm spacers on my esprit (best steering car in the world) and it made a huge difference
read that you used 3mm spacers
i have the 225 in front
is that what i need to mount (3mm)
rens

I'd Give Mat a call to confirm if I was you.
Cheers,
Martin

[MPETT]

Defcon5 said:

Surely widening the track by 6mm cant make that much difference?

For the doubters out there, why not come along to ROAR 2010 this weekend and try it out for yourself. www.TVRRoar.co.uk

If you ask very nicely, I might let you try my totaly standard Tuscan mk1! Or you could buy a set, fit them and go for a blatt in the peaks?

[MPETT]

Hi Everyone,

I started this thread to pass on my experiences with my totaly standard car with standard tyres (Toyo T1S) and a verified standard geo set up.

It has got rather technical in a short period of time. I actually want to learn about suspension design so I will read the quoted books with keen interest.

However, for the rest of us in simple terms, I have standard tyres/widths I added the spacers and now I am completely satisfied with the handling of my car. Without them I would have sold it because it scared me.

Cheers,
Martin

Edited by MPETT on Monday 28th June 22:07

[MPETT]

Before i fitted the spacers I think I had 24psi in my tyres. Then after some expert advice I lowered to 22psi front and rear and which improved things.

[MPETT]

softtop said:

I have read this thread with interest. I would like to know how many people have issues with wandering at speed, I think this is due to rack wear though other Tuscan drivers have said it feels normal to them. During hard braking on roads you do sometimes get pulled to one side which is disconcerting, do any of the 'spacer' people see this issue before and if so how is it now?

Thanks
S

Notes
good set of racing reds well set up
tyre pressures of around 25 on toyo T1R
r888 (only used on track so different environment)

Yep had these issues before, now it is much better. My car only has 10k so now wear in the rack and had the geo checked before the spacers were added.

[MPETT]

Delboy1 said:

Well i've just ordered my SP Wheel Spacers off of Ebay . Is it just the front that needs spacers or do i need some for the back ?? .
Thought i'd invest £25 before driving the Tuscan to monte carlo!

Just the fronts are necessary. However increased rear track width is never a bad thing.
Cheers,
Martin

[MPETT]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you need to adjust anything on the suspension. The relationship between the hubs and the suspension arms are not changed. The mod simply pushes the wheel away from the hub 3mm and restores the correc wheel/kingpin alignment.

Cheers,
Martin

[MPETT]

JR said:

MPETT said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you need to adjust anything on the suspension. The relationship between the hubs and the suspension arms are not changed. The mod simply pushes the wheel away from the hub 3mm and restores the correc wheel/kingpin alignment.

Cheers,
Martin

One can't have it both ways. If the suspension was set up for the optimal setting without spacers then it will not be the optimal setting with spacers and v-v. OK, there's not a lot in it but if you took that attitude then you'd not fit the spacers...

I'm no race engineer, but from what I've read about suspension I doubt you'd get much from redoing the geo again. The wheels were aligned relative to each other/the chassis and that won't change by widening the front track by an equal amount on both sides. The rear wheels are pointing inwards by X degrees relative to the front wheels and the front wheels toe in / camber will not change due to spacers.
Any race engineers wish to set the record straight and quote their personal experience?
Cheers

[MPETT]

Just read it, and it follows what I said, in that the spacers shouldn't affect the rest of the geo, it makes the scrub angle correct/ as TVR intended/designed the suspension originally.

[MPETT]

JR said:

iain25tuscan said:

Would there be any benefit to fitting a set to the rear wheels as well? any thoughts guys?

No but some may be better fitting a second set to the front.

A wider rear track is never a bad thing. I fitted them to the rear as well as the front. You are of course limited to how much you can add by the length of the studs and tyre contact with the arch.

Re fitting a second set to the front I'm assuming that was meant to be a joke!? Fitting the spacers corrects the offset to what it should be. Adding more spacers would make it worse again! (and there wouldn't be enough thread engaged by the nut).

[MPETT]

Hi everyone,

Original poster here

I have to admit, I did sell my Tuscan in the end, but the good news is that I've bought another one. This time it's a cat d jan '00 car.

I was wondering, out of the people that bought the spacers, how many fitted them to cars that were built pre march '01? And, did it make a positive difference?
Cheers,
Martin