SD1 Vitesse / VDP - usable every day driver? Info needed!
Discussion
Hello all,
First time posting here in years and years, I have recently started looking at SD1's on eBay and the like and am looking for some info. I've gone a fair bit of googling and have tried posting on some Rover and SD1 specific forums but not had a response as of yet, so please bear with me as this may turn into war and peace, I just want to fully explain my current stance and predicament.
Currently my daily driver is a 2001 Mercedes CLK 230. I've had it for 3 years now and I'm starting to wonder what to replace it with. It was supposed to be a cheap stop gap until I could afford something a bit newer and nicer but alas for various reasons I haven't been able to buy anything newer and nicer and I've also very much enjoyed owning it!
However, my annual mileage is now around or under 10,000 miles. I have a commute of under 3 miles each way, I live within 10 miles of pretty much any amenity I often use - shops, cinema etc - and although I still use my car for work, whereas a couple of years ago I would regularly have to do trips of up to 400 miles a day, I now rarely venture out of a 50 miles radius of our office, and even then it's only once every couple of weeks.
I'm therefore now thinking I would like something a bit more interesting as my everyday car, and a nice usable classic really appeals to me.
I already have a '78 Volvo 244 DL in lovely 70's brown which I was gifted by my grandparents who've owned it since new, but this sits in a barn having not been MOT'd in years, and have some fairly nasty rear aches.
I also have an '85 Mini that is an ongoing project (it needs a full strip down and rebuild really but I'm too scared to start ripping it apart!)
One of the great things about my Merc which is partly why I've kept it so long, is that although it's a fairly hefty old barge, it's still fast enough to have fun with and handles decently well.
Any car that replaces it therefore will need to demonstrate abilities to a similar standard - and that's the Mini and the Volvo out of the picture!
The Merc is around 195bhp or so, and does 0-60 in just under 8 seconds. Not exactly a rocket ship. However, it will happily sit at around 100mph for extended periods of time at under 4000rpm, and I've had it at 140mph without breaking too much of a sweat. This was all on a trip to the Nurburgring a couple of years ago where it performed well enough.
A key thing for me is having a long top gear and the ability to sit at high speed (90 - 100) with little stress and at low revs - this has ruled out the car I've been toying with getting for ages - a ZT190 - as it is doing almost 4000rpm at 80!
I also have a very limited budget. I haven't properly figured out the numbers but I would imagine by the time I put some money together and sell the now fairly scruffy looking Merc I will probably have between 1500 and 2000 to spend.
All of the above mean that a nice SD1 would be a good choice. From what I've heard they are comfy, reliable and handle well, and depending on which one you buy, reasonably good in a straight line.
I therefore have a few questions which I'm struggling to comprehensively answer through hours of googling.
1) Which should I buy? I'm looking at Vitesse's and Vanden Plas'. The VDP seems to have much better availability and therefore I guess on average is cheaper to buy?
2) If I were to get a VDP:
- I read that the VDP EFi has the same power as the Vitesse - but what about the carb VDP's - are they less powerful?
- I'm not dead against auto's as my Merc has one but it has a pretty good one, the idea of an 80's 3 speed fills me with dread - how does it perform?
- If the auto is a shocker, how difficult is it to convert to manual? I'm not very competent with the spanners but have reasonable theoretical knowledge and a trusted mechanic that charges me a very reasonable hourly rate
3) As mentioned above it's important for me to be able to cruise at high speed without feeling like I'm stressing the car. How do these cope at 90 - 100mph for prolonged periods? What's the gearing like in 5th on the Vitesse and 3rd on the VDP? Does the VDP have overdrive? How much throttle does it need to maintain these speeds? I think it's about a quarter to a third throttle in the Merc.
4) How easy is it to get a bit more power from that 3.5? Ok I know that everyone says the Rover V8 is easily and massively tuneable, but I'm wondering what is possible for just a few hundred quid. Assuming I get myself a healthy runner which gets fairly close to the original 190bhp on a dyno, are there any easy and cheap things that can be done to release a few extra ponies? I hear that, like the K series, all RV8's have the same engine mounts and possibly even bell housing mounts, so swapping between them physically is easy - also Range Rover 4.6's seem cheap and plentiful and are rated at around 230bhp - is dropping one of these in realistic without masses of work? Can you re-use the original EFi system? Are there any other easy gains? I used to have a TVR Chimaera and seem to remember that cams were the real starting point for getting more power and a decent one could release 15+ bhp and still remain nicely driveable every day - is this the case?
5) What is the stereo like? I'm not expecting much but I'm comfortable replacing the head unit and speakers. What I'm hoping for though (assuming a previous owner hasn't already upgraded) is that the infrastructure (speaker cables etc.) is of decent enough quality that simply upgrading the speakers and head unit will be enough. I read that some models have 4 speakers and some have 2 - is this the case and if so, which ones?
6) What's fuel economy like? - Again I'm not expecting miracles, but what can I reasonably hope for day to day? Like I said earlier most of my journeys are sub ten miles, and when a car is fully warm I do tend to drive quite enthusiastically. I currently get around 22mpg day to day in my Merc and between 28 and 35mpg on a decent long run with some dual carriageway / motorway work.
7) What wheel options are there? I do quite like the standard Vitesse wheels and most VDP's I've seen seem to have the same, but what are the options if I want some a bit bigger / wider etc.?
8) What instruments are there? If I'm running a 30+ year old car, I'm going to want to be comfortable that it's healthy - are there oil pressure / temperature gauges? Voltmeter? If not is there anywhere on the dash (like on a mini) you can easily install some?
9) What other modern day comforts do they have? Power steering? Air con? Electric Windows? Central Locking?
To summarise, going from what I've blabbed on about in probably far too much detail, should I buy one? I am very tempted by the 4.3 version of my Mercedes which will be faster and cheaper than a decent SD1, and with the same lovely V8 rumble - should I just forget the classic and go for that?
Cheers
Ben
First time posting here in years and years, I have recently started looking at SD1's on eBay and the like and am looking for some info. I've gone a fair bit of googling and have tried posting on some Rover and SD1 specific forums but not had a response as of yet, so please bear with me as this may turn into war and peace, I just want to fully explain my current stance and predicament.
Currently my daily driver is a 2001 Mercedes CLK 230. I've had it for 3 years now and I'm starting to wonder what to replace it with. It was supposed to be a cheap stop gap until I could afford something a bit newer and nicer but alas for various reasons I haven't been able to buy anything newer and nicer and I've also very much enjoyed owning it!
However, my annual mileage is now around or under 10,000 miles. I have a commute of under 3 miles each way, I live within 10 miles of pretty much any amenity I often use - shops, cinema etc - and although I still use my car for work, whereas a couple of years ago I would regularly have to do trips of up to 400 miles a day, I now rarely venture out of a 50 miles radius of our office, and even then it's only once every couple of weeks.
I'm therefore now thinking I would like something a bit more interesting as my everyday car, and a nice usable classic really appeals to me.
I already have a '78 Volvo 244 DL in lovely 70's brown which I was gifted by my grandparents who've owned it since new, but this sits in a barn having not been MOT'd in years, and have some fairly nasty rear aches.
I also have an '85 Mini that is an ongoing project (it needs a full strip down and rebuild really but I'm too scared to start ripping it apart!)
One of the great things about my Merc which is partly why I've kept it so long, is that although it's a fairly hefty old barge, it's still fast enough to have fun with and handles decently well.
Any car that replaces it therefore will need to demonstrate abilities to a similar standard - and that's the Mini and the Volvo out of the picture!
The Merc is around 195bhp or so, and does 0-60 in just under 8 seconds. Not exactly a rocket ship. However, it will happily sit at around 100mph for extended periods of time at under 4000rpm, and I've had it at 140mph without breaking too much of a sweat. This was all on a trip to the Nurburgring a couple of years ago where it performed well enough.
A key thing for me is having a long top gear and the ability to sit at high speed (90 - 100) with little stress and at low revs - this has ruled out the car I've been toying with getting for ages - a ZT190 - as it is doing almost 4000rpm at 80!
I also have a very limited budget. I haven't properly figured out the numbers but I would imagine by the time I put some money together and sell the now fairly scruffy looking Merc I will probably have between 1500 and 2000 to spend.
All of the above mean that a nice SD1 would be a good choice. From what I've heard they are comfy, reliable and handle well, and depending on which one you buy, reasonably good in a straight line.
I therefore have a few questions which I'm struggling to comprehensively answer through hours of googling.
1) Which should I buy? I'm looking at Vitesse's and Vanden Plas'. The VDP seems to have much better availability and therefore I guess on average is cheaper to buy?
2) If I were to get a VDP:
- I read that the VDP EFi has the same power as the Vitesse - but what about the carb VDP's - are they less powerful?
- I'm not dead against auto's as my Merc has one but it has a pretty good one, the idea of an 80's 3 speed fills me with dread - how does it perform?
- If the auto is a shocker, how difficult is it to convert to manual? I'm not very competent with the spanners but have reasonable theoretical knowledge and a trusted mechanic that charges me a very reasonable hourly rate
3) As mentioned above it's important for me to be able to cruise at high speed without feeling like I'm stressing the car. How do these cope at 90 - 100mph for prolonged periods? What's the gearing like in 5th on the Vitesse and 3rd on the VDP? Does the VDP have overdrive? How much throttle does it need to maintain these speeds? I think it's about a quarter to a third throttle in the Merc.
4) How easy is it to get a bit more power from that 3.5? Ok I know that everyone says the Rover V8 is easily and massively tuneable, but I'm wondering what is possible for just a few hundred quid. Assuming I get myself a healthy runner which gets fairly close to the original 190bhp on a dyno, are there any easy and cheap things that can be done to release a few extra ponies? I hear that, like the K series, all RV8's have the same engine mounts and possibly even bell housing mounts, so swapping between them physically is easy - also Range Rover 4.6's seem cheap and plentiful and are rated at around 230bhp - is dropping one of these in realistic without masses of work? Can you re-use the original EFi system? Are there any other easy gains? I used to have a TVR Chimaera and seem to remember that cams were the real starting point for getting more power and a decent one could release 15+ bhp and still remain nicely driveable every day - is this the case?
5) What is the stereo like? I'm not expecting much but I'm comfortable replacing the head unit and speakers. What I'm hoping for though (assuming a previous owner hasn't already upgraded) is that the infrastructure (speaker cables etc.) is of decent enough quality that simply upgrading the speakers and head unit will be enough. I read that some models have 4 speakers and some have 2 - is this the case and if so, which ones?
6) What's fuel economy like? - Again I'm not expecting miracles, but what can I reasonably hope for day to day? Like I said earlier most of my journeys are sub ten miles, and when a car is fully warm I do tend to drive quite enthusiastically. I currently get around 22mpg day to day in my Merc and between 28 and 35mpg on a decent long run with some dual carriageway / motorway work.
7) What wheel options are there? I do quite like the standard Vitesse wheels and most VDP's I've seen seem to have the same, but what are the options if I want some a bit bigger / wider etc.?
8) What instruments are there? If I'm running a 30+ year old car, I'm going to want to be comfortable that it's healthy - are there oil pressure / temperature gauges? Voltmeter? If not is there anywhere on the dash (like on a mini) you can easily install some?
9) What other modern day comforts do they have? Power steering? Air con? Electric Windows? Central Locking?
To summarise, going from what I've blabbed on about in probably far too much detail, should I buy one? I am very tempted by the 4.3 version of my Mercedes which will be faster and cheaper than a decent SD1, and with the same lovely V8 rumble - should I just forget the classic and go for that?
Cheers
Ben
Thanks very much Tony, I appreciate you taking the time to read it all!
I understand what you're saying about the high speed stuff, I've become very mechanically conscious in the last couple o years and find my senses for things like wobbles / noises are fairly well tuned now. I don't often go up to those speeds but when I do I like the car to be comfortable. Even with the auto gearing sounds it like it would be assuming all components were in good condition - don't want a wheel coming off at those speeds!
Fuel consumption sounds good, I can live with low 20's day to day and high twenties on a run.
Great news about the dials too, and thanks for clarifying the carb VDP's output - I'll make sure to stick to looking at either the Vitesse's or the VDP EFi's.
This is all sounding good so far - more comments welcome though folks!
I understand what you're saying about the high speed stuff, I've become very mechanically conscious in the last couple o years and find my senses for things like wobbles / noises are fairly well tuned now. I don't often go up to those speeds but when I do I like the car to be comfortable. Even with the auto gearing sounds it like it would be assuming all components were in good condition - don't want a wheel coming off at those speeds!
Fuel consumption sounds good, I can live with low 20's day to day and high twenties on a run.
Great news about the dials too, and thanks for clarifying the carb VDP's output - I'll make sure to stick to looking at either the Vitesse's or the VDP EFi's.
This is all sounding good so far - more comments welcome though folks!
Thanks very much for your input, once again this is all music to my ears!
So far it's looking good that EFi is definitely the way to go, and it sounds as if a manual will do everything I need in terms of performance, handling and return fuel economy that I'd be content with.
The rear suspension thing is interesting, I didn't know that. Quite a few I've seen seem to be lowered so I'm guessing a lot of these would've had the self-levelling stuff removed already?
Only real question mark at the moment is whether or not a manual conversion is worth the effort, or whether I should wait it out and adjust my budget slightly to accommodate a good, proper Vitesse.
Keep the comments coming folks it's all appreciated!
So far it's looking good that EFi is definitely the way to go, and it sounds as if a manual will do everything I need in terms of performance, handling and return fuel economy that I'd be content with.
The rear suspension thing is interesting, I didn't know that. Quite a few I've seen seem to be lowered so I'm guessing a lot of these would've had the self-levelling stuff removed already?
Only real question mark at the moment is whether or not a manual conversion is worth the effort, or whether I should wait it out and adjust my budget slightly to accommodate a good, proper Vitesse.
Keep the comments coming folks it's all appreciated!
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