New Exhaust - More Power

[Cyclone1]

Some of you will have read from my post last week that I have had a new exhaust system made for my Cerb. At the moment I have only had the back section fitted (from intermediate pipes back as per Sports Exhaust), I have had it made in 2.5" into the back boxes and 3" all the way tail pipes. My car went on the Joolz'z rolling road last week at TCS and put out:

407.4bhp and 379lb/ft (has consistently been between 406 and 410bhp since short induction and linked de-cats were fitted).

Now it has produced:

420.4bhp and 389lb/ft

Am I happy................you bet!!!!!!!!!!!!

It has gained between 5-15bhp (mainly 10-15)and 5-20lb/ft all the way through the rev range.

Here's the graph with the two runs overlayed, pre exhaust in purple, post exhaust in red.



We have a couple more mods to finish, the first being the bigger bore intermediate pipes which should liberate a few more ponies, and then another which I'll let you know about after we have tested it.

I'd be suprised if there is a Cerb out there that can match this sort of power and torque throughout the rev range (Boss Cerb excluded).

I love this tuning lark............

Jules.

ps.......I now have a Cerb as it should have been when it left the factory.

Edited by Cyclone1 on Saturday 24th June 09:50

[Cyclone1]

Thanks for the positive comments.

I think I will have to put pressure on them to make a few systems, I think it would have to be half a dozen to make it worthwhile, but we'll see. There are still the intermediate pipes to be fitted yet.



Jules.

Edited by Cyclone1 on Saturday 24th June 09:51

[Cyclone1]

itsallyellow said:

Nice one!! 450 is the new target then..............

Maybe, but I reckon that 430bhp should be achieveable...........best thing is that we haven't even touched the engine yet.

ps......saw your car there today.....it's very, very yellow.....

Edited by Cyclone1 on Friday 23 June 20:37

[Cyclone1]

itsallyellow said:

well itsallyellow!! supposidly it didnt do to bad on the dyno either!(for a first run) Id like to hear your system. is it much louder?

Promising first run.

It is louder but a totally different sound. Whilst on the rolling road yesterday I placed a noise level meter at the back of the car and took a reading, the next time Joolz puts a Cerb on the rollers (might be yours or one of the others in the workshop) then we'll have a direct comparison.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

_Deejay_ said:

Damn, that's pretty impressive for an exhaust! I presume you mapped it to suit?
What power was the car producing before you started on the mods?

D

In all honesty I was hoping for the exhaust to just add say 5bhp, the one thing I didn't want was it to lose power. When I post the graph up I have overlayed the pre and post exhaust fitted runs, and from that you can see the clear difference all the way through the rev range. The addition of the exhaust has changed the breathing characteristics and this was evident in the fueling running ever so slightly leaner than previous, this is what you would expect to see, therefore the fueling was adjusted to suit (5 minute job).

The cars power before all of the mods which are as follows:

Emerald ECU
Whirlwind Short Induction Pipes
Linked De-Cats
Hi-Flow Filter
Custom Exhaust (back section)

339.6bhp and 339lb/ft - std.

Jules.

Edited by Cyclone1 on Saturday 24th June 09:05

[Cyclone1]

Took a pic of the graph instead of waiting to scan it on Tuesday and it's come out as good as scanning..........the purple lines are the pre-exhaust run, the red lines are post exhaust. I have posted it above in the original post.

Edited by Cyclone1 on Saturday 24th June 09:52

[Cyclone1]

_Deejay_ said:

Cyclone1 said:

_Deejay_ said:

Damn, that's pretty impressive for an exhaust! I presume you mapped it to suit?
What power was the car producing before you started on the mods?

D

In all honesty I was hoping for the exhaust to just add say 5bhp, the one thing I didn't want was it to lose power. When I post the graph up I have overlayed the pre and post exhaust fitted runs, and from that you can see the clear difference all the way through the rev range. The addition of the exhaust has changed the breathing characteristics and this was evident in the fueling running ever so slightly leaner than previous, this is what you would expect to see, therefore the fueling was adjusted to suit (5 minute job).

The cars power before all of the mods which are as follows:

Emerald ECU
Whirlwind Short Induction Pipes
Linked De-Cats
Hi-Flow Filter
Custom Exhaust (back section)

339.6bhp and 339lb/ft - std.

Jules.

Edited by Cyclone1 on Saturday 24th June 09:05

That's an absolutely outstanding achievement.

The power curve looks perfectly flat (where's that horrible drop in the midrange gone) - it must be a completely different drive to standard.

I cannot believe (well I can, but you know what I mean) that you've increased peak power by about 25%. I know the factory cars were far from polished/developed, but considering you've not touched the engine internals, that is truely astonishing.

So, what's next (and how long before you modify the internals)?

D

Edited by _Deejay_ on Saturday 24th June 10:30

Edited by _Deejay_ on Saturday 24th June 10:31

Next step is to get the intermedaite pipes fitted and then we have another mod up our sleeves, but want to see if it works first before getting excited about it. This should hopefully see 430bhp.

I put up a thread back in November of all of my various states of tune / mods since getting the car www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=223033, I need to update it as since then, I have had a new manifold (std but with subtle mods), linked de-cats, hi-flow filter and now exhaust.

[Cyclone1]

satman said:

Jules...really impressive!...considering the change that most Cerbera owners do...std exhaust to sports pipes to decats...where little or no difference to bhp is noticed, this is very good!

I doubt that the same improvements would be made fitting a big bore exhaust on a 'std' car though?...Id have thought that the short induction pipes/remap route unleashes the 'potential' and then the big bore exhaust enhances this...do you agree?

Not sure what type of "Sports Exhaust" was on my car but it wasn't the JP type, it looks as though these could have been a restricting factor (if only I'd realised this 6 months ago then I might have had 400bhp sooner).

Not so sure about whether the bigger bore exhaust would show the same improvements on a std Cerb, I reckon they would, but maybe Joolz could give a more informative opinion.

Jules.

Edited by Cyclone1 on Saturday 24th June 10:53

[Cyclone1]

simonsparrow said:

Great results and nice power curve. Are your back boxes the same as 'normal' sports exhausts? i.e. cylindrical in section?

Yes they are approximately the same dimension.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

Nickccc said:

Very nice Jules,
Any chance I could get one of these? You are going to get a batch made up yes? Don't mind chipping in if needed.
I would have thought mine will push 430 now, only need 4-5 BHP and it's there.

As you know I have had the short pipes fitted now. Just back from Brighton, It is a lot smoother again, the humps are gone and my power delivery is a lot less spiky, much easier to just floor it. Though finding somewhere to give it a blast without fear of my licence selfe distructing is proving hard.
I will be going to Santapod on the 1st July to see if I can better my time of 12.4
See you there.
NIck

Hi Nick,

If there is enough genuine interest then I will do all I can to get them to make a few sets up.

I've seen your graphs and they are so much smoother with the Whirlwind pipes, good to hear that it translates the smoothness onto the road.

I'll hopefully be at SP on July 1st, so may see you down there.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

itsallyellow said:

id be very intrested in the exhaust aswell. Have you thought about going completly straight through?? or would to much mid range be lost?

The noise would be way too loud and it would also run the risk of resonating badly throughout the car.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

SXS said:

Nice pics cyclo, my old sport-pipes from Hawthorns looked similar. That dyno-plot is smooth as a babys arse! impressed

420bhp? damn, thats not bad at all.... so let me get this right, you're getting that power from a regular CR 4.5 with just the external mods and mapping? btw is that power-run done on 1:1 gearing?

You mentioned 'Boss Cerb excluded', has his ride hit anyones dyno yet? comparing that 5litre chart against your 4.5 would be interesting...
The Nitrous Cerbie's plot is coming soon too after the mapping, hopefully get a good collection of charts from all the power-hungry boys up here to get an idea of what all the beasts are pulling... mind you, so many are just selling their rides on to tighter pockets so doubt much out there are gonna be kicking more out of their cerbs *cough* bar NickCCC of course

Cheers Ash, the power run has been done exactly the same as all of the other runs that I have had done, this gives me consistency and accurate comparison depending on what has been done with the car. All of the other Cerbs that hit this dyno are tested under the same conditions.

I always exclude the Boss Cerbera car as it is an outright special car, it also has a "different" engine, in that it isn't a 4.5, I am always curious to know what power each car is putting out, but with this one I am not too fussed, it's special full stop and has proved itself in "Autocar(I think)". If it ever hit the rollers then yes it would be great to compare the curves. As for Craig's Nitrous Cerb then I am sure that this is going to be big, big power with the nitrous plumbed in.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

scania164 said:

Cyclone1 said:

Some of you will have read from my post last week that I have had a new exhaust system made for my Cerb. At the moment I have only had the back section fitted (from intermediate pipes back as per Sports Exhaust), I have had it made in 2.5" into the back boxes and 3" all the way tail pipes. My car went on the Joolz'z rolling road last week at TCS and put out:

407.4bhp and 379lb/ft (has consistently been between 406 and 410bhp since short induction and linked de-cats were fitted).

Now it has produced:

420.4bhp and 389lb/ft

Am I happy................you bet!!!!!!!!!!!!

It has gained between 5-15bhp (mainly 10-15)and 5-20lb/ft all the way through the rev range.

Here's the graph with the two runs overlayed, pre exhaust in purple, post exhaust in red.



We have a couple more mods to finish, the first being the bigger bore intermediate pipes which should liberate a few more ponies, and then another which I'll let you know about after we have tested it.

I'd be suprised if there is a Cerb out there that can match this sort of power and torque throughout the rev range (Boss Cerb excluded).

I love this tuning lark............

Jules.

ps.......I now have a Cerb as it should have been when it left the factory.

Edited by Cyclone1 on Saturday 24th June 09:50

Be suprised Cyclone daggart's gives more.Get yours down to Austec and get an independant check done!!.

I was waiting for this. Daggart's car has proved itself on the rollers at Surrey Rolling Road at 430bhp, this is a fantastic achievement and bodes well so far in the quality of the rebuild with all of the "upgraded parts" used, I can only applaud this, it is a fantastic result.

What I was saying was that through the rev range my power and torque curves are very strong, and from the other graphs I have seen so far, none are as good, maybe at peak, but elsewhere lagging behind. if you have the SRR graph for Daggart's car then by all means post it for comparison, if it's stronger then I stand corrected.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

scania164 said:

Get Vixpy1 to print a graph off for you.

If its all out power you want then theres more to come from daggarts Cerb.The fact is my brothers car is so drivable now from the mapping and other parts mucking around with it just to squeeze out a bit more would probably make the car harder to live with day to day.As it is the car so bloody quick!,makes my Tusacn feel a bit lame.

The other day i watched my brother slaughter a tuned R34 Skyline from a set of lights in Portsmouth,the guy looked devestated once we'd stopped to let him catch up!!!.

If Vixpy1 wants to post a graph then I am sure he'll be along at some stage to do so.

I am sure that Daggart's car is superb as it is and yes I would agree that it probably has more potential.....maybe the next owner will take it to yet another level, although as it is, it is more than most could ever want.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

dean_ratpac said:

jules, so is this zaust gonna be available to buy?

Hi Dean,

I am trying to pursuade the chaps who built mine to build some more. I reckon if I could get a least five definite buyers then they would hopefully go ahead. As soon as I know I'll post it up and email those who are interested.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

SXS said:

[Fair enough, no point bringing the old "which way to use a dyno is best argument"... will be interesting to see what difference the extra horses makes on the strip.... hitting anytime soon? Listen mate, if you crack 11.5 in your NA cerbie, I'll want a copy of the slip to frame up! Pub bragging rights galore!


I was well impressed with Daggart doing his run at SRR to show his baby wasnt just another myth and his pulled 430 on the day I think Craig is going to run his on the dyno without NOS (for safety reasons) to give a baseline of what the new build is doing, I think 250shot would easily eat up the drivetrain while strapped down, but on the open roads in progressive mode and plenty airflow she'll be a little safer ( still a feckin madman for running 250 through tuscan-racer high-comp heads skimmed even further! I heard he's banging in 10k's worth of drivetrain upgrades including an exotic sequential box )

I may be at Santa Pod on Saturday depending on whether my friend has his car ready in time, if not then I will be travelling down on Sunday the 16th. It would be great to beat 11.9 and the extra power and torque should help.

Daggart's Cerb is proven at 430bhp and is a great achievement.

Craig's Cerb by the sounds of it will be another high powered Cerb, will be interested to see the results and would also be interested in the latest spec of his engine.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

Steve_T said:

Well I'm impressed by this mod, with torque gains everywhere, you can't argue with its effectiveness. Tim at ACT mentioned to me he'd had the same kind of results from his big bore system, so the only problem I can think of is saving your hearing!

Steve.

Thanks Steve.

I looked at Tim's exhaust but wanted mine to be a touch larger bore (2.5 v 2.25), I honestly didn't expect to see any major gains, maybe 5bhp here and there, but to see upto 15bhp all the way along the curve was a great result. It does sound louder, but the noise is much deeper and I have got to admit that I prefer it.

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

Neilus said:

Cyclone1 said:

dean_ratpac said:

jules, so is this zaust gonna be available to buy?

Hi Dean,

I am trying to pursuade the chaps who built mine to build some more. I reckon if I could get a least five definite buyers then they would hopefully go ahead. As soon as I know I'll post it up and email those who are interested.

Jules.

Jules,

If they say 'yeah' and you get an idea of cost, could you mail me the details. I may well be interested in these, as my current pipes have been welded up a couple of times.

Cheers,

Neil.

Will let you know.

[Cyclone1]

scania164 said:

Cyclone1 said:

Some of you will have read from my post last week that I have had a new exhaust system made for my Cerb. At the moment I have only had the back section fitted (from intermediate pipes back as per Sports Exhaust), I have had it made in 2.5" into the back boxes and 3" all the way tail pipes. My car went on the Joolz'z rolling road last week at TCS and put out:

407.4bhp and 379lb/ft (has consistently been between 406 and 410bhp since short induction and linked de-cats were fitted).

Now it has produced:

420.4bhp and 389lb/ft

Am I happy................you bet!!!!!!!!!!!!

It has gained between 5-15bhp (mainly 10-15)and 5-20lb/ft all the way through the rev range.

Here's the graph with the two runs overlayed, pre exhaust in purple, post exhaust in red.



We have a couple more mods to finish, the first being the bigger bore intermediate pipes which should liberate a few more ponies, and then another which I'll let you know about after we have tested it.

I'd be suprised if there is a Cerb out there that can match this sort of power and torque throughout the rev range (Boss Cerb excluded).

I love this tuning lark............

Jules.

ps.......I now have a Cerb as it should have been when it left the factory.

Edited by Cyclone1 on Saturday 24th June 09:50

Be suprised Cyclone daggart's gives more.Get yours down to Austec and get an independant check done!!.

Hi Scania,

Just had a look at the graph from Vixpy and I have to say that it is very, very impressive...................however, I'll have to stand by my original statement and say.....

I'd be suprised if there is a Cerb out there that can match this sort of power and torque throughout the rev range (Boss Cerb excluded).....

Jules.

[Cyclone1]

SXS said:

Cyclone1 said:

I'd be suprised if there is a Cerb out there that can match this sort of power and torque throughout the rev range (Boss Cerb excluded).....

We should get Cyclone and Daggart and the 5litre cerbie together on a 20mph rolling start in 2nd gear - head to head - and see how the power curves reflect on the tarmac.... I wont mention the NOS cerb because thats just mad, but just for reference sake we can get Allans 4.2 alongside.... that would be interesting to watch.... why dont we do this kind of stuff?

Cream 2006? 2007?

Cream would be good? or Santa Pod