MP4-12C photos and review/comparison
Discussion
After a wait for a few issues to be sorted by the dealer I picked her up this afternoon, and, WOW!
The McLaren has a lot more visual appearance on the road than any photo's portray, and has quite a stance. The interior fit and finish is very good, better than the Ferrari's, exterior fit and finish is probably on par.
I happened to be driving my GTO and California this morning, and got straight out of those and into the MP4-12C. The first thing I noticed is how small the McLaren feels compared to the Ferrari's, but its actual size is slightly bigger than a California.
The MP4 feels much more nimble than the GTO, but most of that will be down to the weight difference. The MP4 is certainly quicker than the GTO once it gets going, and it pulls like nothing I have driven before once you get to 4500rpm all the way to 8500rpm. However I would guess from a standing start the GTO would pull away, as the GTO just sits down and goes off the line with no wheelspin at all, whereas the McLaren gets a lot of wheelspin and needs to be modulated, I assume due to the turbo torque kicking in. Once the McLaren is up to 80mph or so then it would start to pull away at quite some speed from the GTO. The McLaren really IS quick once rolling and I would be amazed if at motorway speeds anything bar a Veyron would currently pass it (except modified cars
Oh, and one thing I was not expecting! The noise!!!! I have the optional sports lightweight exhaust and inside the cabin the exhaust/engine noise is much louder than the GTO, not sure how that compares outside - I would guess the GTO is louder.
I drove the GTO and MP4 back to back on my local twisty hilly roads and the MP4 does handle better than I expected. In comparison the GTO just simply sticks and does not slide very much at all unless properly provoked or driven in a very agressive manner, whereas I found the MP4 to be a little more playful than the GTO but still very well balanced, and the GTO would have its work cut out trying to keep up with the MP4 on the twisties.
Ride is very good, nicely sprung and still dampened to what you would expect. Sometimes feels a but floaty but only in a straight line over undulations, paint finish is very good, better than Aston, Ferrari.
And the not so good bits:
- Seats don't have enough adjustment for height and backrest (and these are the optional electric memory ones)
- interior does feel a bit small, but then as a plus it makes the car feel smaller than it is
- TURBO LAG! Below 3000rpm the small engine does show through. You really have to be above 3000rpm all the time otherwise it feels like I am driving my smart car. There really is virtually no get up and go at all compared to my similar cars. Even compared to my California and C63 AMG below 2000rpm its lousy and between 2000 and 3000rpm its just about on par. To be fair my other cars are NA, but you know its a turbo engined car in the McLaren. And once the power does come on when you back off to brake at say 6000rpm it feels as if the power is still being delivered for a very short amount of time, as if the turbo is still 'un-spooling' which I found a little strange.
- Throttle response leaves a little to be desired. Maybe harsh comparing it with the GTO which is just perfect, but I did expect a little better.
- I wont mention the 'launch car' issues as these have been mentioned in other posts, but they did detract from the experience.
Overall, even with the items above it is a still a great car, and something for McLaren to be proud of. Yes its not perfect, but some of the issues above could be sorted out over time. My main gripes are with the turbo lag and responsiveness, and should be issues that can be fixed.
Some may say its not fair to compare to a 599 GTO which costs over £110k more than the MP4-12C, but its just my way of comparing to what I know very well (>7000 miles on my GTO now and numerous track days).
The MP4 will be put through the same paces as my other cars so it will be interesting to see how it develops with some use and track days.
Some crappy iPhone photos:
Matt.
The McLaren has a lot more visual appearance on the road than any photo's portray, and has quite a stance. The interior fit and finish is very good, better than the Ferrari's, exterior fit and finish is probably on par.
I happened to be driving my GTO and California this morning, and got straight out of those and into the MP4-12C. The first thing I noticed is how small the McLaren feels compared to the Ferrari's, but its actual size is slightly bigger than a California.
The MP4 feels much more nimble than the GTO, but most of that will be down to the weight difference. The MP4 is certainly quicker than the GTO once it gets going, and it pulls like nothing I have driven before once you get to 4500rpm all the way to 8500rpm. However I would guess from a standing start the GTO would pull away, as the GTO just sits down and goes off the line with no wheelspin at all, whereas the McLaren gets a lot of wheelspin and needs to be modulated, I assume due to the turbo torque kicking in. Once the McLaren is up to 80mph or so then it would start to pull away at quite some speed from the GTO. The McLaren really IS quick once rolling and I would be amazed if at motorway speeds anything bar a Veyron would currently pass it (except modified cars
Oh, and one thing I was not expecting! The noise!!!! I have the optional sports lightweight exhaust and inside the cabin the exhaust/engine noise is much louder than the GTO, not sure how that compares outside - I would guess the GTO is louder.
I drove the GTO and MP4 back to back on my local twisty hilly roads and the MP4 does handle better than I expected. In comparison the GTO just simply sticks and does not slide very much at all unless properly provoked or driven in a very agressive manner, whereas I found the MP4 to be a little more playful than the GTO but still very well balanced, and the GTO would have its work cut out trying to keep up with the MP4 on the twisties.
Ride is very good, nicely sprung and still dampened to what you would expect. Sometimes feels a but floaty but only in a straight line over undulations, paint finish is very good, better than Aston, Ferrari.
And the not so good bits:
- Seats don't have enough adjustment for height and backrest (and these are the optional electric memory ones)
- interior does feel a bit small, but then as a plus it makes the car feel smaller than it is
- TURBO LAG! Below 3000rpm the small engine does show through. You really have to be above 3000rpm all the time otherwise it feels like I am driving my smart car. There really is virtually no get up and go at all compared to my similar cars. Even compared to my California and C63 AMG below 2000rpm its lousy and between 2000 and 3000rpm its just about on par. To be fair my other cars are NA, but you know its a turbo engined car in the McLaren. And once the power does come on when you back off to brake at say 6000rpm it feels as if the power is still being delivered for a very short amount of time, as if the turbo is still 'un-spooling' which I found a little strange.
- Throttle response leaves a little to be desired. Maybe harsh comparing it with the GTO which is just perfect, but I did expect a little better.
- I wont mention the 'launch car' issues as these have been mentioned in other posts, but they did detract from the experience.
Overall, even with the items above it is a still a great car, and something for McLaren to be proud of. Yes its not perfect, but some of the issues above could be sorted out over time. My main gripes are with the turbo lag and responsiveness, and should be issues that can be fixed.
Some may say its not fair to compare to a 599 GTO which costs over £110k more than the MP4-12C, but its just my way of comparing to what I know very well (>7000 miles on my GTO now and numerous track days).
The MP4 will be put through the same paces as my other cars so it will be interesting to see how it develops with some use and track days.
Some crappy iPhone photos:
Matt.
One day on and 100 mile more, and two faults so far, first was an exhaust valve fault, which put the car into limp mode. Pulled over, switched it off, locked it and after 2 minutes it thankfully sorted itself back out again. Phew.
Then 20 miles later an 'ESC Fault' appeared on the dash, and none of the handling or powertrain buttons worked and dash reset to default mode. Switched off in traffic, restarted and fault cleared. Again. Phew.
Oh, and whilst listing to the iPod, the media center rebooted itself for no reason. TO be fair IRIS is not in a very healthy state on all cars, but at least the iPod part works. Or did.
Hope it gets better from here on!!!
Without quoting the questions above:
- 599 GTO or McLaren if I had to keep one? GTO. Its just a better car, maybe only 90% as fast but just an all round great car. I could see myself getting board of the McLaren, not of the GTO.
- Steels or carbon brakes? I have the steels and they feel fine feedback wise, and do slow it down very well, however I do now wish that I would have spec'ed the carbon ones, as I can see the standard pads/disks wearing out pretty quickly due to the shear speed of the thing and all the braking thats needed!
- Comparison of size to the GTO. See pics below, but I was surprised this morning when I put them side by side to find them exactly the same length and width, and the GTO is large!!
My car with its sister. Chassis number 121 and 122 (122 being my business partners)
Then 20 miles later an 'ESC Fault' appeared on the dash, and none of the handling or powertrain buttons worked and dash reset to default mode. Switched off in traffic, restarted and fault cleared. Again. Phew.
Oh, and whilst listing to the iPod, the media center rebooted itself for no reason. TO be fair IRIS is not in a very healthy state on all cars, but at least the iPod part works. Or did.
Hope it gets better from here on!!!
Without quoting the questions above:
- 599 GTO or McLaren if I had to keep one? GTO. Its just a better car, maybe only 90% as fast but just an all round great car. I could see myself getting board of the McLaren, not of the GTO.
- Steels or carbon brakes? I have the steels and they feel fine feedback wise, and do slow it down very well, however I do now wish that I would have spec'ed the carbon ones, as I can see the standard pads/disks wearing out pretty quickly due to the shear speed of the thing and all the braking thats needed!
- Comparison of size to the GTO. See pics below, but I was surprised this morning when I put them side by side to find them exactly the same length and width, and the GTO is large!!
My car with its sister. Chassis number 121 and 122 (122 being my business partners)
Edited by Maff on Wednesday 21st September 20:09
RobboC said:
I'm liking the blue too!
I was just going to say that garage doesn't look big enough for all those cars, would of expected something like Andy's ^^^^
A fine stable!
It is a little on the small side, but that is being rectified at the moment, new driveway, garages and parking should be ready in a few months! I was just going to say that garage doesn't look big enough for all those cars, would of expected something like Andy's ^^^^
A fine stable!
ChrisFitz said:
You obviously live around or were visiting someone in the Hurley area as I just followed both your MP4 and GTO along the Henley to Hurley road. Not sure how you managed to drive both of them at the same time though.
Was on my way to the Red Lyon for a bite to eat.
We were in the Pearl Gallardo behind that Yaris that was behind the GTO.
Amazing how fast a Yaris goes when it's behind a 599. Must be the toe! :-)
Yes, that was me. I saw you pulling out from the wargrave road. I am based in Henley-on-Thames, my friend was driving the GTO and we were just off to the A404 for a little comparison test Was on my way to the Red Lyon for a bite to eat.
We were in the Pearl Gallardo behind that Yaris that was behind the GTO.
Amazing how fast a Yaris goes when it's behind a 599. Must be the toe! :-)
The McLaren is a bit quicker than the GTO from all speeds, but to be honest not as quick as I thought. The 'feel' the McLaren gives you is that it is very quick, however whilst it pulled away from the GTO it was not by a great amount, and I had to be at ~6500rpm in the McLaren as anything below this the GTO pulled away.
The next VMAX event will be interesting!!
traxx said:
One question - why have you put a front plate on the MP4 when you dont bother on the GTO?
I'm sure the Mclaren will look better without a plate
The only reason is that the MP4 has a flat place exactly the right size for a number plate on the front whereas the GTO/458 does not and it just didn't seem to look quite right. I saw a F360 at goodwood with no front plate and that also looked a bit naf as the 360 has a flat plate area the same as the MP4. I'm sure the Mclaren will look better without a plate
Well what can I say?!
A week on with the car and I have been using it every day. In 'normal/normal' mode (drivtrain/handling) and the aero off, and auto mode its easier to drive and more comfortable than my C63.
However, in track/track mode, or even track/sport the car is a different car. The exhaust flaps open and it is proper loud, the suspension changes and it feels as if I have just got in a different car.
In summary, F**k me what a car.
I like to think I drive my cars pretty hard, to give you an idea my 8 month old 599 GTO is already 20% through its near lifetime CCM3 carbon ceramics, and my California of the same age is ready for a re-spray due to stone chips.
I've been giving the MP4 a pretty hard time now she is run in, and I really can not believe what I am experiencing. The initial issues I had with the throttle response, whilst still not perfect has become much less of an issue, and in track mode is much better. The turbo lag is also less of an issue once you learn the 7 speed box's ratio's.
My absolute certain conclusion: This is the fastest car I have ever driven. There is NO way my GTO would hang with the MP4 on a British A or B road. Zero. I can 100% agree with the top gear lap times. I have driven a ot of cars, tracked and raced numerous, and I do not know of another road car that could keep up with the MP4 being driven in anger.
Even the new Aventador, unless it can shed 200kg don't even bother trying, its that quick.
The precision of the turn in sublime, the handling is the best I have ever experienced, the balance is perfect, and for a car that does NOT have a LSD, it beggars belief. I do not know how a car that limits its wheel spin via electronically breaking the spinning wheel does it. I am sure most of us have driven a car without a diff and felt what happens when the traction control brakes the spiining wheel and its not good (C63 for example!), but in the McLaren it just goes, and when it does slip it drifts beautifully with good control.
Yes the GTO is a nicer car to drive, the GTO feels more mechanical, and that V12, but if you want to go for a complete balls out blast at speeds that seem impossible, the McLaren is the car to do it in.
And its not been without problems, 12 electrical faults with the car and counting, I've lost part of the front wing guard, and it stranded me in London at midnight on Friday refusing to start after 30 minutes of trying, but hopefully these issues will be fixed this week.
How some of the magazines found this car slower round a track is beyond me, maybe the most recent updates to the McLaren last week sorted these issues, but thats my next test... track day booked.
A week on with the car and I have been using it every day. In 'normal/normal' mode (drivtrain/handling) and the aero off, and auto mode its easier to drive and more comfortable than my C63.
However, in track/track mode, or even track/sport the car is a different car. The exhaust flaps open and it is proper loud, the suspension changes and it feels as if I have just got in a different car.
In summary, F**k me what a car.
I like to think I drive my cars pretty hard, to give you an idea my 8 month old 599 GTO is already 20% through its near lifetime CCM3 carbon ceramics, and my California of the same age is ready for a re-spray due to stone chips.
I've been giving the MP4 a pretty hard time now she is run in, and I really can not believe what I am experiencing. The initial issues I had with the throttle response, whilst still not perfect has become much less of an issue, and in track mode is much better. The turbo lag is also less of an issue once you learn the 7 speed box's ratio's.
My absolute certain conclusion: This is the fastest car I have ever driven. There is NO way my GTO would hang with the MP4 on a British A or B road. Zero. I can 100% agree with the top gear lap times. I have driven a ot of cars, tracked and raced numerous, and I do not know of another road car that could keep up with the MP4 being driven in anger.
Even the new Aventador, unless it can shed 200kg don't even bother trying, its that quick.
The precision of the turn in sublime, the handling is the best I have ever experienced, the balance is perfect, and for a car that does NOT have a LSD, it beggars belief. I do not know how a car that limits its wheel spin via electronically breaking the spinning wheel does it. I am sure most of us have driven a car without a diff and felt what happens when the traction control brakes the spiining wheel and its not good (C63 for example!), but in the McLaren it just goes, and when it does slip it drifts beautifully with good control.
Yes the GTO is a nicer car to drive, the GTO feels more mechanical, and that V12, but if you want to go for a complete balls out blast at speeds that seem impossible, the McLaren is the car to do it in.
And its not been without problems, 12 electrical faults with the car and counting, I've lost part of the front wing guard, and it stranded me in London at midnight on Friday refusing to start after 30 minutes of trying, but hopefully these issues will be fixed this week.
How some of the magazines found this car slower round a track is beyond me, maybe the most recent updates to the McLaren last week sorted these issues, but thats my next test... track day booked.
ANDYCLAX said:
Christian Marti,head of european sales is suggesting january,how near can you get with something so complicated,and the small amount of hardware needed for the iris dosent effect the continued production of the car,there are a few small hardware improvements to come ,but many will not be on a recall basis,such as a different type of bolt securing the front suspension onto the carbon tub,perfectly safe,but on some cars causes a squeek.LMB,things are moving along daily,i dont see things differing too much,when i said customers know when its coming,we are all being told similar things,without it in writing im suggesting we have an idea,and we are not being left in the dark
Its unfortunately a bit more than software issues. My car is currently back with McLaren with a tech from the factory looking at the numerous non-software issues, and my business partners car was collected today, along with the software faults that all cars have, his has gone back for all hardware related faults/failures and paint defects.Whilst the car is superb to drive and be in as a driving experience, the customer satisfaction experience still leaves room for improvement, which to be fair McLaren are working on. However, with the issues our two cars have (numerous stupid software faults aside, two of which keep putting my car in limp mode) have I do sometimes wonder what their test engineers were doing for 5+ years.
AngryApples said:
(genuine question and not a dig BTW)
Was it a hand written letter then?
No, just his signature at the bottom. I've also sent emails to the management of McLaren and as yet they have not responded to me, which I find a little poor. Was it a hand written letter then?
And for what its worth I've had two letters from Ferrari signed by LDM, and when I went to pickup my GTO from the factory he stopped off to see whoever it was picking up their new car.
McLaren have a big issue on their hands and they know it, a car manufacturer does not freeze delivering cars at any old whim, they know that the risk of releasing more cars with faults is worse than upsetting future customers by delivering their cars even later than planned - and they must be under massive pressure from those waiting for their cars all this time. The fact they are not delivering any cars worldwide should hint at the magnitude of the faults on the cars, 95% software related, from minor water level sensor issues to possible traction control systems not working (in my case).
Another thing that also bugs me a little (pardon the pun!), is the lack of clarity of information regarding fixes of these bugs. My car has just come back from the workshop for the traction control issue amongst others, and I have been told 3 different dates from 3 different people regarding the new software update from 1 week to 4 weeks away, which doesn't give me much confidence. It is also not a simple software update, each car delivered so far will need to go back to the dealer for both software and hardware updates which will be delivered as a combined package to each car.
However, as I have stated before it is a wonderful car to drive, and it really has blown me away in every performance area. It might not be the best drivers car out there, but it is pretty darn good. Once they have fixed these issues it will be a truly epic car for its segment. The problem is my car will be 6 months old by the time they have all been fixed, (including IRIS which I have been told is Jan/Feb next year) and I don't tend to keep my cars very long.... Maybe my next McLarne, the MP4-12C 'R' version will be perfect.
Edited by Maff on Saturday 15th October 20:09
coyft said:
Anyone met Ron Dennis at the MTC? When I was there, Ron was "in residence" and the PR bloke form McLaren was in contact with his office because he didn't want to bump into customers.
Nope.Nothing to do with your post, but it has just reminded me of a strange encounter with Luca at the factory... I was there for the FF launch where we all had dinner on the V12 production line, along with Massa, Alonso and Piero Ferrari (I stood next to Massa in the toilet BTW
) and I happened to find myself stood next to Luca who then started shouting at the top of his voice to the waiters and caterers making sure his demands were met exactly. It made made me chuckle as it really was the 'Italian' way of doing things, but blimey does he know how to run a company! (BTW he is the longest serving automotive chairman/CEO in history)Bit of an update on my car....
Two guys direct from the factory spent all day with my car yesterday (on my driveway) installing a slightly updated software version which is supposed to fix a number of issues. It is not the 'final' software version that others have mentioned here, that is still 4 weeks away I am told, but this interim version should help make most of the issues I have had go away... which is good. Not so good news is that I am now getting an airbag failure message pop up now and again when using the car on Monday, which is slightly unnerving.
I've not had time to drive my car yet but will do so tomorrow and over the weekend, so fingers crossed.
Two guys direct from the factory spent all day with my car yesterday (on my driveway) installing a slightly updated software version which is supposed to fix a number of issues. It is not the 'final' software version that others have mentioned here, that is still 4 weeks away I am told, but this interim version should help make most of the issues I have had go away... which is good. Not so good news is that I am now getting an airbag failure message pop up now and again when using the car on Monday, which is slightly unnerving.
I've not had time to drive my car yet but will do so tomorrow and over the weekend, so fingers crossed.
MP4 said:
Iris comes January but who cares its only a sat nav and that doesnt spoil the enjoyment of the rest of the car in fact the sat nav in our SL spoils the car cos its rubbish
You say that but it is still rather annoying - not just sat nav but bluetooth and radio too (unless you happen to live in a city then the radio will work, but where I live no radio for me, just crackling).Whilst we are on the IRIS subject the Meridian Sound system upgrade is rubbish - glad I did not pay for it. The £800 optional Harmon Kardon system in my C63 is far superior, and from what I can tell there is no sub-woofer in the MP4-12C, so when you turn the sound up the mid range gets very distorted trying to cope with the bass as well, which is a shame.
Fact is my smart car is faster point to point as I dont have to keep pulling over to answer my phone
RJames said:
Spotted Matt's MP4-12C driving in Twyford today, although it didnt look like Matt at the wheel?!
Looks fantastic, and sounded awesome to. Only thing Matt the drivers side rear light was flickering?
Yes that was my car, a friend was driving it this afternoon.Looks fantastic, and sounded awesome to. Only thing Matt the drivers side rear light was flickering?
Yep I seem to have now lost my rear light and brake light completely, it started flickering earlier today and is now not working at all. Another trip to the dealers!
No mine has not had the 8.2 upgrade yet, hopefully going in Wednesday for that along with all the other upgrades. My business partners is currently back at the factory having his upgrades completed, along with a re-spray for the paint quality issues that affected some very early cars due to a chemical reacting with the paintwork in the rear quarter window assembly.
I had a very good day at the factory last week, got to see the new production center (MPC) which is very impressive, however the F1 division at the MTC interested me the most, that was mind blowing, I could have spent hours there! Lunch with the sales director was also useful, to be fair to McLaren (the company and the people) they really do care about their product and quality, and that comes across very well from seeing the factory and speaking to the people building the car. Its also good they have put their hands up regarding the issues with the first 60 or so cars, and made the decision to stop delivering cars until those are fixed. Interesting to see the quality of the components going into the car which was pretty much the best there is. Just a shame they had the teething issues to start with on both the software and some hardware. The only thing the factory lacked a little of was soul, but hopefully given time this will come after a few more models and years!
Looking forward to what else McLaren are doing in the future, and not just on the car front.
I had a very good day at the factory last week, got to see the new production center (MPC) which is very impressive, however the F1 division at the MTC interested me the most, that was mind blowing, I could have spent hours there! Lunch with the sales director was also useful, to be fair to McLaren (the company and the people) they really do care about their product and quality, and that comes across very well from seeing the factory and speaking to the people building the car. Its also good they have put their hands up regarding the issues with the first 60 or so cars, and made the decision to stop delivering cars until those are fixed. Interesting to see the quality of the components going into the car which was pretty much the best there is. Just a shame they had the teething issues to start with on both the software and some hardware. The only thing the factory lacked a little of was soul, but hopefully given time this will come after a few more models and years!
Looking forward to what else McLaren are doing in the future, and not just on the car front.
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