Diff is overheating after rebuild

Diff is overheating after rebuild

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rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Sunday 25th May 2014
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I fitted an alternate ratio ring and pinion into an LSD on my Vit. I set the preload, used the official Suzuki diff rebuild kit, set the backlash etc. But after a few miles the diff was very hot. I took it apart, rechecked the backlash... all looks good.

It does feel like the preload is very high on the bearings but I double checked it was within specifications.

The only thing I can think off is that I have preloaded used bearings using the factory manual specifications, which are for new bearings. Maybe that's the problem. I've bought some new bearings now and I'll try again.

I spoke with a few diff builders and none of them mentioned the need for fitting new bearings, even though the factory manual specifies it. Maybe if using the original bearings I should have set the preload to what it was at when the bearing was removed. I remember one specialist saying similarly about the backlash... don't use the factory specification, if a second hand R+P is used, then set it to what it had bedded itself in at when it was removed.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Sunday 25th May 2014
quotequote all
The pinion depth was set using the official Suzuki diff rebuild kit. I used some gear marker and checked the pattern which is pretty good. I spoke to the factory that made the R+P (dodgy outfit in Turkey) and they said to set the backlash looser than Suzuki specifications state.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Sunday 25th May 2014
quotequote all
It was hot. Too hot to keep your hand on it. Whats a CWP? The diff sounded fine - didn't hear anything from the cabin.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Sunday 25th May 2014
quotequote all
I'm set to rebuild the diff again with new bearings. I'll use a stethoscope to check for noise. I'm going to set the bearing preload to the lowest allowable. Dunno what else to do.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Sunday 25th May 2014
quotequote all
Steve, if you're sure it's not the bearings (though I would have thought overtight bearings would heat up), then the only other explanation is the the Ring and Pinion (or CWP as you say it's called) are at fault. There's lots of reasons to suspect them:

1. They came from a dodgy factory that most Suzuki owners avoided (but the only one that still does low ratio R+Ps)
2. Every reseller that used to import them into the UK has now stopped selling them
3. After speaking with the factory about the fault the only thing they said was to loosen the backlash.

There was also a suspicious amount of metal in the diff oil after the test run which was approx 3 miles.

I'm pretty sure that the backlash, mesh and preload was set correctly because I had 8 original factory diffs lying around, and I measured them all as a test. All of them had backlash according to factory specs. The preload was mostly below, except for the two very low mileage diffs.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Monday 26th May 2014
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There is a shiney area visible on the teeth, and the pattern looks about right, with the contact area in the middle of the teeth on the coast and drive side. The original bearings look good as well, but like I said, I only drove a few miles.

I'm just waiting for a surface plate (needed for setting the pinion depth using the Suzuki diff tool) and breaker bar and I'll be rebuilding it with new bearings. If anyone has any other suggestions for what to look for then I'll be glad to hear them.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Tuesday 27th May 2014
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Forgot to answer how I measured the bearing pre-load. I used a spring scale.

The procedure in the factory manual is to set the preload on the pinion with the diff removed. Then add the diff, and set the preload on the diff. At this point you can only measure the total preload of the diff and pinion, but that's fine as you can just deduct the pinion preload to know the diff preload.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Wednesday 28th May 2014
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Hi Eliot. Glad you're covering all bases. I had the front diff and drive train disengaged at the hubs and transfer box while I was testing the new diff.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
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I managed to speak with two professional diff builders and got the following info:

One says its normal for a diff to get very hot during break in.

The other says that preloads on used bearings should be lower than on new ones, and also says that diffs can run upto 120 C.

I've got the diff apart now, just waiting for new surface plate to arrive so I can set new lower preloads and put it back together. Surface plate is needed to zero the Suzuki diff rebuild kit.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Thursday 29th May 2014
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May have stumbled upon another possible reason.

When I measured the preload, the dial would jump up in order to get the pinion turning (due to stiction?) and then would come down to a lower torque to keep the pinion turning thereafter. I was using the second, lower reading as my preload setting.

Which ones should I be using?

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Friday 30th May 2014
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The pro did say that 120 C is only in some and some situation, I think he only said it to reassure me. I can get a dial guage from work instead of the spring scale. Just started the rebuild again with new pinion bearings.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Friday 30th May 2014
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Yep sorry, bad terminology.... there are guages at work for measuring rolling torque I just don't know the proper name.

I've started the work but need to stop as I need to pause as missing some tools that I won't be able to get until late next week frown

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Sunday 29th June 2014
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All rebuilt with new pinion bearings. Reused old side bearings as they are super expensive and I'll have the chance to change them soon anyway when I fit my new diff locks. So I just set the used side bearings to a third of the factory preload. The diff now runs super cool! So the problem appears to have been due to the used bearings being preloaded to "new bearing" specs.

rcx106

Original Poster:

188 posts

120 months

Sunday 29th June 2014
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.... so happy to have low ratio back! Forgot what it feels like to drive the car with correct ratios!!!