Wavetrac LSD replacement

[FoxdieUK]

Hi folks,

Not long ago my 8's rear diff decided to s*** itself, although I've been known to have some fun (vid 1), with less than 40k on the clock I don't believe I've pushed the diff to the point of it failing from abuse alone, Jez (VE tuner / developer friend in Austalia) has pointed out it's a common fault over there and thoughts among a couple of owners I'm friends with on Facebook is that it may not have been filled properly from the factory to begin with.

Problem is now the damage is done (vids 2 and 3) and it needs replacing, but rather than just replace it for another ZF diff that's just gonna crap itself again I thought I'd go for a Wavetrac. After much investigation and emailing companies Jez and myself firmly concluded (with verification from Wavetrac themselves) that Wavetracs part code 57.309.140WK was compatible with Holden VEs (VXR8s) and subsequently I found one online for £800 (bargain but was a limited time discount).

That's all well and good, but now I've been made aware I'll need (cup) bearings for the LSD, possibly shims, seals etc. My question is has anyone fitted an alternative diff before and do they know how I can source these parts (preferably on short notice)?

[FoxdieUK]

I actually bought Barts (DJWilks) broken diff off him for spares, in the end he opted for an OEM diff that set him back 2 grand :/

Edited by FoxdieUK on Saturday 12th July 13:25

[FoxdieUK]

gsd / mik, yeah that's the problem, there's places in Oz too but need somewhere local / fast :S

[FoxdieUK]

ARAF said:

Bart.

If you bought his diff, why haven't you now got a spare?

I think it was Ringram that was talking about bigger Camaro diffs, but if you want to be back on the road ASAP, then I think a standard diff is the way you have to go too.

Fixed

I'd hoped to buy his and, with the Wavetrac and mine, be able to build up a diff to drop in straight away. I didn't fancy spending 2 grand on a ZF diff that may just go again. This has all been a bit rushed and not thought out I admit, which is why I'm asking for help finding bearings in the UK.

Edited by FoxdieUK on Saturday 12th July 13:26

[FoxdieUK]

Found time to inspect Barts diff to assess if everything apart from the centre LSD and it's bearings can be reused, I believe the answer is yes but if people can state a valid reason why not please let me know.


(Click to play in new window)

Aldor, thanks I'll look at that now.

ARAF, nope but there's a company called Longbridge Gearboxes I'm going to phone up on Monday to see if they can help.

Meanwhile if anyone else has additional suggestions please let me know. Once I've collected all I need and can verify it builds a working diff I'll document everything in case anyone else needs to go down the same route

[FoxdieUK]

Bear in mind the only bearings I think that will be reused are the pinion bearings, should I really replace them if the pinion is in very good condition?

[FoxdieUK]

ringram said:

People never listen.. The Camaro diff is a direct replacement and costs about £800 with gears, diff and housing etc brand new.
Not sure why you would want to pay 150% more for a weaker diff...?

I understand your frustration but there was no solid readily available information on that (the search function is p*ss), sorry if that's wound you up bud (I get the frustration, I dealt with tuning questions on another club and it was always the same crap).

Are you saying that a Camaro diff is stronger than a regular diff with a Wavetrac? Or just stronger than the stock ZF diff?

Although I care about your answer, time wasn't on my side and I chose what I thought would be the strongest replacement for the stock diff (and capable of withstanding a lot more tomfoolery).

[FoxdieUK]

wiganhsv said:

on a different note, after watching your video 2, do you mind if i ask what dash board cam you have in your VXR8 and how much, and where? cheers

It's a Blackvue DR550GW-2CH, available on Amazon.

[FoxdieUK]

Okay, much tape measuring and Internet research later, I think I've identified all the roller bearings for the stock ZF diff, if anyone spots these are incorrect please chime in

For Stock ZF diff GM Part Code 92157710

LSD/Centre bearings
Timken LM104900 Series
Cone: JLM104948
Cup: LM104911A

Sources: 1

Pinion bearings - teeth end
Timken 33209 Series
Cone: X33209
Cup: Y33209

Sources: 1 / 2

Pinion bearings - shaft end
Cone: ET-HM 89449 STV8
Cup: ET-HM 89410 ST

Sources: 1 / 2

[FoxdieUK]

Aldor said:

Tape measure ? buy a decent vernier ya tightwad. glad you managed to locate, though I was certain they would be available, maybe try bearing service ltd too ? but I bet you really enjoyed finding them . and knowledge base has gone up.

You remember what I was like in Club VR-4, gotta put the ADHD to use somehow

[FoxdieUK]

That's also what I read which is why I opted to stick with something closer to home as replacing the centre keeps the same gearing.

That doesn't mean I'm not gonna have a panic about shims / spacers / seals later

[FoxdieUK]

New Wavetrac diff literally just turned up within the last 10 minutes;



Shame it's been delivered to the wrong address, should have been delivered to the firm rebuilding the diff, not my work :/

[FoxdieUK]

Worked out at £800 delivered from Regal Auto, however immediately after I bought it at that price they put it up to just shy of a grand

There are a couple of other retailers in the UK, all between the £930-1030 mark, this is the next best price I could find.

Make sure you verify they have the stock, ignore what the website states, or you'll be waiting 3 weeks for Wavetrac to build one up from scratch.

Ps. There's still no 100% guarantee this'll work in a VXR8, I'll naturally post up what the end result is!

[FoxdieUK]

Cars back on the road now with a bill of £1659.80;

• £800 Wavetrac Diff
• £420 Bearings, seals, labour for diff rebuild, labour for fitting
• £372 Spare diff casing incl. crown and pinion wheels
• £68 for oils (two fills, before to keep it running and another after replacement)

I've gotta take it easy for the next 500-1000 miles before I can really push it but I have to say it initially feels even better than before any of this drama happening, fast and nimble around roundabouts with no tyre skippage and quiet as a mouse. There's been a faint whine for a couple of months that I presumed to be low brake discs (they were 1mm under the manufacture recommended spec according to Roger back in November) but it must have been the diff running dry.

Expensive lesson learnt; If you hear any noises, no matter how faint or if you think it's something else, get it checked out straight away.

Edited by FoxdieUK on Monday 28th July 19:28

[FoxdieUK]

Oh don't worry, if anything this Wavetrac should be far more suited to that kinda thing, just gotta wait 1k

[FoxdieUK]

Posting an update 1000 miles on. No drama whatsoever.

The only thing that's different is a faint whine at 60 MPH* at very light load (ie. flat motorway cruising), uphill and downhill its not there, nor at any other speed. I can live with that

As for how it's doing...


Part 1
Part 2

Now I gotta chase overheating

 * The whine is actually caused by the slightly rounded pinion and crown, not the new Wavetrac part, the whining won't affect operation 

Edited by FoxdieUK on Monday 15th September 22:12

[FoxdieUK]

Told mik this in an email, will chase the rebuild company for the part numbers now. The only problem was the shims, needed to use two sets (from both diffs) and then grind them down to get them to fit, it may be worth getting fresh shims and grinding them down to suit.

[FoxdieUK]

Hi folks, posting an update here.

So about 3000 miles after getting the diff rebuilt and 1 skid pan day, the car had to go back to the gearbox firm for a rebuild because one of the output shafts (the drivers / off-side) started to develop a lot of play, had split the seal and lost oil.

Post-mortem revealed one of the shims had crushed one of the roller bearing cage, it was protruding out of the cup / outer ring (not sure if this is normal, it was a genuine Timken bearing) and the shim squashed it causing it to deform inside and collapse.

They've solved it by boring out one of the shims to allow the replacement bearings cage to protrude through without it touching anything, with another thinner bore shim on the outside.

All in all there are 5 shims to brace the diff whereas I believe the stock diff may have 4, it appears the Wavetrac LSD center is in the region of about 5-10mm shorter than the stock ZF LSD center and this needs to be compensated for.

The bill for this round was £140, taking the total expenditure to just shy of £1800.

Given how much this has cost me now, I think ringrams suggestion of a Camaro 1LE rear diff would probably have been wiser however I still cannot find what part code for a 3.71 diff.

Ringram, you able to shed some light on exact part numbers for future readers?