Oil temps !!??

[fastbikes76]

What the fuuuuuuu.... is the deal on the VXR8 ?? Oil temp usually sits at 110*c and tonight on a bit of 'spirited' motorway driving it nudged 130

Do these cars have an oil cooler and if not...why the hell not ?

Has anyone retro fitted a decent cooler (if they dont have one as stock) ?

My derv people carrier 7 up driven at a ton for 2 ours SOLID only managed to touch 110, and usually sits at 85-90 max

[fastbikes76]

stevieturbo said:

Are you sure the gauge is accurate ?

No they do not have an oil cooler.

Diesel engines typically run cooler than petrol engines and would usually have an oil cooler of some description fitted.
Both of thee factors can lead to cooler oil temps.

But your results do sound high.

Not sure how reliable the stock gauge is but some brief searching has revelled this is 'normal' !

Agreed dervs generally run cooler but when on the boil for that long in constant boost I would have thought its a reasonable comparison. My other petrol TT car doesnt get near 120 either, I guess its just a big V8 thing.

I have found a Mocal adaptor sandwich plate and will have a measure up to see where I can fit a cooler nice and discreetly. I'm simply not happy with such extreme oil temps and wouldn't have any confidence on long sustained high speed driving in stock form

[fastbikes76]

S800VXR said:

MF can fit something for you or do as I am and go DIY along with an Accumulator. This is the thermostatic tap off I'm looking to use...
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-...

Cheers ! that adapter is spot on. I was going to go Mocal sandwich plate with remote Mocal thermostat and then cooler. This adapter is easier and cleaner install

My only concern is the application list


Applications

All 1997 and later GM LS family engines (Gen III & IV) with rear-sump oil pans including LS1/LS6, LS2, LS3, LS7, L76/L92/L93, LQ4/LQ9, LS9, LSA. Also fits all GM Gen III & IV Vortec V8 engines.
Does not fit LSX.
NOT suitable for front-sump pans such as Pontiac GTO or Holden/Vauxhall Monaro & Commodore oil pans. Please see our GTO oil cooler adapter for these applications.

so does it fit an LS2 VXR8 ??

[fastbikes76]

I have a full set of Prosport Peak/Warn stepper motor gauges one of which is oil temp, Im sure I could ghetto rig the oil temp one up to get comparable readings. That way I would know what the ACTUAL temps are...and if they are truly hitting 110+ I will most definitely be fitting an oil cooler kit.

Are there any blanking take offs I could use for the sensor (save me jacking car up and looking) ?

[fastbikes76]

Ok so I have had a look and there is a blanking plate on the sump just above the oil filter. I have found this blanking plate with a 1/8th npt hole to suit my Oil Temp Gauge.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141358870294?_trksid=p20...

If I find the stock gauge is miles out and the actual temps are not exceeding 105 to 110 I shall forget about the cooler.

If the gauge is remotely accurate and we are in fact seeing 130+ I shall fit an adapter like so which has a 82*c thermostat built in. That way the oil will reach operating temp before oil cooler opens.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141318349322?_trksid=p20...

As for the actual cooler and lines, Ive not looked into that side of things too much but a simple Mocal core and some Pirtek custom made lines will see that sorted. I have roughly worked out a route away from the exhaust etc.

[fastbikes76]

stevieturbo said:

I'd love to know how the feel -8 fittings are safe ?

The main oil galleries in the block etc are circa 12.5mm diameter

Even a -10 fitting is smaller than this at around 11.5mm diameter ( hose may be larger ID, but the metal fittings restrict it further )

So for them to use -8 ports on the body must be even more restrictive.

The only way to maintain no less than 12.5mm diameter is to use -12 fittings.

Although -10 throughout is fairly close to maintaining the same diameter as main galleries

It doesnt make any odds. The oil flows through the cooler and what ever doesnt fit through the pipes/fittings simply bypasses and circulates round the engine as per normal. Most oil coolers are thermostatically operated and are closed when oil temp is below 80*c. If ALL the oil HAD to pass through the cooler we would be buggered lol.


The GTO non turbo has no oil cooler, the TT version which uses the identical block does have a cooler fitted. The stock banjo bolts only have around a 5mm oil feed hole through them.

[fastbikes76]

gsd2000 said:

i dont think that will fit, ive got the slimline version and plan to fit a mocal thermostat

I have miles of space around mine ? I took some pics last night and there is definitely more than enough space on mine with stock headers and cats.

[fastbikes76]

stevieturbo said:

There are no GTO single or twin turbo's from the factory ?

So any item you refer to is aftermarket ?

Bottom line...if the oil has to pass through an orifice smaller than the oil galleries in the engine, I would be concerned about using it.

Sorry, I was referring to the Mitsubishi GTO which is the other cars I dabble in.

That's the point though regarding the coolers...the oil doesn't HAVE to pass through them, it has the option to do so, and whatever doesn't pass through flows through the engine as per normal with zero loss of oil pressure.

Think about it logically, the oil cooler mounts where there is usually a blanking plate. How is an AN-10 fitting more restrictive that a blocked off oil gallery ? I have oil pressure gauges spare as well as the temp one I'm about too fit. I can monitor pressure before and after cooler if required but I know from experience it makes zero difference.

[fastbikes76]

ARAF said:

GSD has a Monaro, and I think he also has mid-length or long tubes, so space could well be an issue.

I'm interested in what you work out FB76, we'll speak about it at the weekend if possible?

Sure thing Ian,

We can have a natter at the weekend. Realistically I reckon a DIY kit could be built for around £300 all in which includes the thermostat. Most people dont bother with that but I like to do things properly !

[fastbikes76]

kaw said:

Done all this 2 years ago been fine no problems since fitting,at the time people said it was a waste of time not needed ,funny how things change

When I first got the R8 I was shocked too see 110 on the stock gauge, I soon worked out that was normal although I've never been overly comfortable with that ! However the icing on the cake was the other night after a few spirited miles on the motorway and I spotted 130ish on the gauge.

If that is accurate and we are in fact running our oil at 110+ that cant be good at all. What sort of temps are you now seeing on the gauge since fitting a cooler ?

[fastbikes76]

ARAF said:

Shame Kaw isn't going to be at TR, to chat about his. I had a look at his thread from September 2012, and I think he also has a gearbox cooler - which could also be worthwhile for ours.

I am installing a ATX cooler on the other Mitsi Im about to TT. Does the UTE not have one as stock ?

[fastbikes76]

ARAF said:

As far as I know, the normal transmission cooler is in the bottom of the radiator, but I haven't checked. Maybe Kaw can confirm?

Same ridiculous idea Mitsi had . So the coolest your ATX fluid will get is 97*c (or whatever your stock thermostat is) which is bonkers. The biggest killer of all ATX boxes is heat, so to incorporate the atx cooler in the rad is about the dumbest idea possible.

One of the first upgrades on the Mitsi is to cap off the built in rad cooler and plumb in a remote cooler instead as the atx on them is mega prone to failure, often heat related.

I have something like this lined up for an ATX cooler on the GT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191007039829?_trksid=p20...

[fastbikes76]

MatrixXXx said:

You need to remember that the water temp is the critical temp the oil runs close to the water galleries so cannot be more than 20 degrees higher. also you need to remember these car are designed in AUZ where the ambient temp is much higher than the UK, so i would have thought they should not need modification to run in the UK?

The ONLY people I know who find oil temps of 110+ acceptable are HSV owners lol. EVERYONE else in both the performance world and NA camps find that waaaaaay to hot. As an example I powered up my oil temp Gauge that was previously fitted to my modified EVO and the warning is set at 105*c

Equally I find the coolant temps too hot on these too, Optimal coolant and oil temps for most engines out there are between 80-100*c. A modified TT 3000GT runs at 85 cruising and peaks at 105-108c after a mega thrashing !

Dropping coolant and oil temps by 20*c on the LS engines will only have positive effects. We are not trying too lower temps beyond optimal operating parameters, just lower them to a more 'normal' range. Obviously you dont want to go too cool otherwise you wont burn off any water vapour accumulated in the sump. I Will be fitting a 220f stat on mine so that it gets hot enough to burn off vapour but run cooler than it currently does.

[fastbikes76]

stevieturbo said:

But again it all seems to come down to firstly the OEM oil temp gauge is simply wrong,

That's exactly it, So far I only know of Araf comparing by checking with an IR thermometer, this could have given skewed results if it was picking up residual heat from the actual engine. I intend to install a proper oil temp gauge fitted in the location where a factory oil cooler is usually fitted on some LS2 engined cars.

Once I have an accurate measurement of what our oil temps are doing I can make the decision on whether an oil cooler is actually required or not. If I am seeing a REAL 105-110 MAX, I wont worry about a cooler. However if I am seeing 110+ then a cooler with a 105* stat will be a certainty !

[fastbikes76]

ARAF said:

I'll bring my stickers. We can pop one on your oil filter.

Yeah that would be handy as my adapter wouldnt be here in time for TR.

[fastbikes76]

kaw said:

Gearbox cooler is a must if your going to use the power,i fitted a larger cooler to mined and took the origenal pipe work that runs through the rad out of the loop ,as to engine cooler a mocal take of valve and 90 deg inline stat put in,gauge before fitting would show 115/120 after cooler 105 average on gauge

Cheers, Pretty much as expected.

If you lucky Araf, the stock lines to the rad cooler are often long enough to move around to a side mounted ATX cooler

There are also these below available but I prefer proper Stacked Plate design rather than the tube/fin style
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Auto-Transmission-cooler...

We can have a nosey at TR and see if theres place for a nice decent ATX cooler on yours.

[fastbikes76]

S800VXR said:

fk me Kaw, wish you had just said this in the first place!

Do you have any thermostatic control with yrs or do you run it as delivered?

I said it could be done for around £300 ..not far off at all

http://www.speedflowshop.co.uk/ls-chevy-v8-engine-...

and a little something for ARAF although we would need to check what stock fittings are on the atx box first.

http://www.speedflowshop.co.uk/transmission-oil-co...


As above though, did you add a thermostat later as the kit doesn't state the adapter has an integrated one like the USA one does ?

[fastbikes76]

captainblakk said:

All good info there guys, where did you situate the coolers if you don't mind me asking? As with a blower you've got a charge cooler rad & pipe work cluttering up the space behind the grille already

So far Im still in the investigating stage but it seems somewhere in front of the rad is the only place on these.

[fastbikes76]

For me the temps have always been a concern. I noticed the gauge sitting at 110 on the test drive but was a little more relaxed once I figured out that's where its always sat. While not ideal I could live with the fact a big V8 runs a little hot, however when gauge rose to 130 on a little push I decided there is no ways Im living with that !!

Soon I see a flurry of R8's fitting oil cooler

[fastbikes76]

Ive not had my adapter arrive yet to fit the temp gauge, however at TR I noticed temps would stay at 110 before and during the run but climb up to 120 on the cool down mile back to the pits which i found daft ??

I will report back with ACTUAL temp findings soon so we know how far out the gauge is (or isnt !)