Making a Monaro more enjoyable for UK roads
Discussion
So I need a V8 at some stage. A proper V8. Not some super smooth Euro V8.
I also would like it to be less than 10k, be very reliable and have a great aftermarket for performance parts and great community with meets (some of which are family friendly).
I like BMW's so the obviuos answer is a an e39 M5 but that is too expensive to maintain.
A V8 M3 is still too expensive and not 'a proper' V8 for what I want.
I guessin an ideal world a 3 series with an LS or Merc 6.2 engine would be my ideal but cost and effort/expertise needed for such a conversion rules it out.
The Monaro naturally fits the bill (apart from being bigger than I'd like).
For me in the roads I have to drive on a V8 that is dramatic and aural from idle and low speeds is essential for the fun factor. Ability to be quick at 100mph + not so much. Speed itself is not important but the sensation of it is, basically trying to enjoy driving without being into license losing territory.
For use here in UK my thoughts to make a Monaro more suitable for my taste would be:
I'm wondering if anyone on here has done similar and what experiences have been?
Costs to do all the above?
Something like this £6,750 5,7l coupe seems a good starting point:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
I also would like it to be less than 10k, be very reliable and have a great aftermarket for performance parts and great community with meets (some of which are family friendly).
I like BMW's so the obviuos answer is a an e39 M5 but that is too expensive to maintain.
A V8 M3 is still too expensive and not 'a proper' V8 for what I want.
I guessin an ideal world a 3 series with an LS or Merc 6.2 engine would be my ideal but cost and effort/expertise needed for such a conversion rules it out.
The Monaro naturally fits the bill (apart from being bigger than I'd like).
For me in the roads I have to drive on a V8 that is dramatic and aural from idle and low speeds is essential for the fun factor. Ability to be quick at 100mph + not so much. Speed itself is not important but the sensation of it is, basically trying to enjoy driving without being into license losing territory.
For use here in UK my thoughts to make a Monaro more suitable for my taste would be:
- Shortened final drive for more lively pick up and ability to use more of the rev range before being into silly speeds.
- Decent adjustable suspension and corner weight session with alignment/camber/castor set up. Not looking to make it a track demon but at least get around corners nicely and be tweakable. I've used adjustable coilovers before and am one of the few who actually does use the settings to tweak it to how I feel it should be. Firm ride is fine but not crashy or overly low.
- Of course an exhaust system- switchable bypass valve for the back boxes appeals. Is louder induction a good idea or does it interfere with the exhaust V8ness sound too much?
I'm wondering if anyone on here has done similar and what experiences have been?
Costs to do all the above?
Something like this £6,750 5,7l coupe seems a good starting point:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Just seen this one with all of I've thought and a lot more, seems to answer my question really:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...
In my ownership I have covered around 6000 miles, have serviced the car twice and have fitted a new 3.7 diff and new OEM radiator (the latter is a service item when the cars reach a certain age). The car has been cherished by me and its previous owners (it's well known in the owners club) and benefits from a number of important modifications which are listed below:
Milltek exhaust & H pipe - beautiful rumble but no drone on the motorway
LT Capa headers - release the power from the early CV8 LS1 engine, the car now produces the same power as a stock 6.0 VXR
100 cell cats - fitted together with the CAPA long tube headers
K&N pannel filter - fitted in stock airbox
MCAI & 2 hole mod - enables the engine to breath freely
Remap - essential when fitting an exhaust and headers
Bilstein Suspension - lower and tighter without being harsh
Polly bushed everything - the stock CV8 handles like a boat!
AP brakes - the stock Monaro brakes are woeful for a big car, the AP 6 pot / 4 pot combination is simply astonishing
19" VXR wheels - improves appearance
Quick rack - another important handing improvement
LS7 clutch - a service item that importantly includes a bleed valve
3.7 diff - the stock cars are over geared
Ripp shifter - stock shift feel is awful
G-Force stage 2 anti-hop drive shafts - removes any clunking from the drive shafts
Sounds like a perfect 'U.K.' Spec car?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...
In my ownership I have covered around 6000 miles, have serviced the car twice and have fitted a new 3.7 diff and new OEM radiator (the latter is a service item when the cars reach a certain age). The car has been cherished by me and its previous owners (it's well known in the owners club) and benefits from a number of important modifications which are listed below:
Milltek exhaust & H pipe - beautiful rumble but no drone on the motorway
LT Capa headers - release the power from the early CV8 LS1 engine, the car now produces the same power as a stock 6.0 VXR
100 cell cats - fitted together with the CAPA long tube headers
K&N pannel filter - fitted in stock airbox
MCAI & 2 hole mod - enables the engine to breath freely
Remap - essential when fitting an exhaust and headers
Bilstein Suspension - lower and tighter without being harsh
Polly bushed everything - the stock CV8 handles like a boat!
AP brakes - the stock Monaro brakes are woeful for a big car, the AP 6 pot / 4 pot combination is simply astonishing
19" VXR wheels - improves appearance
Quick rack - another important handing improvement
LS7 clutch - a service item that importantly includes a bleed valve
3.7 diff - the stock cars are over geared
Ripp shifter - stock shift feel is awful
G-Force stage 2 anti-hop drive shafts - removes any clunking from the drive shafts
Sounds like a perfect 'U.K.' Spec car?
Thought I'd update this as I went to see Janosh's car on Monday.
It really is as nice as described, if not better and Janosh is a top bloke, nice to meet someone else who takes the same view on how these cars can be made more fun for our roads.
The car sounds and drives beautifully. Still very comfortable and very well judged exhaust note. The right mix of rawness and comfort I'd say - soaks up the bumps without any complaint yet feels nice and sporty, you would think it has 19's on it from inside. The engine is just special being that much more present than in a European v8 which can be so heavily muffled. This one has a great sound from up front and the exhaust note is deep and rich with no drone. I liked the gearing too so something I'd definitely do.
I could have driven away there, it's an easy car to fall for once you stand behind it on a cold start!
After sleeping on it I've decided I really need to go down the 4dr route even if it's a fair chunk more (and I'll have to do the mods I want myself as chances of finding a modded one are slim).
For someone who only needs 4seats/2drs this Monaro is a steal though.
After the drive in Janosh's my thinking is that these cars just feel robust and are 'normal' cars but with an outstanding engine so should be very happy to be used daily (unlike an highly strung aging BMW M car that to me feels like it needs much attention and can get costly fast maintenance wise).
I could happily do the school run, go to the office, attend family days etc with a 4dr and that way get to regularly enjoy it and have the best both worlds- a proper v8 and practicality. If the coupe had a bench seat at the back I could maybe make it work but with (admittedly lovely) rear buckets it's strictly 4 seats. With a 4dr 5 seater I could really have my cake and eat it: use the car pretty much all the time except for long trips when the kids need more room and then we have the Galaxy for that.
Ive had an LPG car before and would happily do it again so running costs not an issue, just sacrificing boot space for decent sized tank (maybe 2 tanks: a donut and regular tank).
I can see a 4dr being a real keeper so in that regard I think I'd be happy to spend on the mods I know I'll want. Have done the same with my Z3 and invested a lot I'll never get back to get it just the way I like, but as its a keeper it doesn't matter.
So although I'm going to have to wait a lot longer and work out how to nearly double the budget available in the long run I think I'll have best of both worlds in one car.
So my next question is how many use theirs daily as main car? How have you found it to live with. I guess it's very happy with daily use given in their home market that's just how they are used?
It really is as nice as described, if not better and Janosh is a top bloke, nice to meet someone else who takes the same view on how these cars can be made more fun for our roads.
The car sounds and drives beautifully. Still very comfortable and very well judged exhaust note. The right mix of rawness and comfort I'd say - soaks up the bumps without any complaint yet feels nice and sporty, you would think it has 19's on it from inside. The engine is just special being that much more present than in a European v8 which can be so heavily muffled. This one has a great sound from up front and the exhaust note is deep and rich with no drone. I liked the gearing too so something I'd definitely do.
I could have driven away there, it's an easy car to fall for once you stand behind it on a cold start!
After sleeping on it I've decided I really need to go down the 4dr route even if it's a fair chunk more (and I'll have to do the mods I want myself as chances of finding a modded one are slim).
For someone who only needs 4seats/2drs this Monaro is a steal though.
After the drive in Janosh's my thinking is that these cars just feel robust and are 'normal' cars but with an outstanding engine so should be very happy to be used daily (unlike an highly strung aging BMW M car that to me feels like it needs much attention and can get costly fast maintenance wise).
I could happily do the school run, go to the office, attend family days etc with a 4dr and that way get to regularly enjoy it and have the best both worlds- a proper v8 and practicality. If the coupe had a bench seat at the back I could maybe make it work but with (admittedly lovely) rear buckets it's strictly 4 seats. With a 4dr 5 seater I could really have my cake and eat it: use the car pretty much all the time except for long trips when the kids need more room and then we have the Galaxy for that.
Ive had an LPG car before and would happily do it again so running costs not an issue, just sacrificing boot space for decent sized tank (maybe 2 tanks: a donut and regular tank).
I can see a 4dr being a real keeper so in that regard I think I'd be happy to spend on the mods I know I'll want. Have done the same with my Z3 and invested a lot I'll never get back to get it just the way I like, but as its a keeper it doesn't matter.
So although I'm going to have to wait a lot longer and work out how to nearly double the budget available in the long run I think I'll have best of both worlds in one car.
So my next question is how many use theirs daily as main car? How have you found it to live with. I guess it's very happy with daily use given in their home market that's just how they are used?
Edited by Dino D on Wednesday 20th January 23:31
Sohlman said:
I have owned my 5.7vxr since October 2014 buying from james at Elite. In 15 months have completed 15,000 miles. It feels special every journey which is great. I have two kids aged 3 and 4 and they love Daddy's noisy car. We take it out as a family just as much as our family car a BMW X3. It's just about as modded as janosh's car but started life as a 386bhp vxr so has the alcantara seats front and rear spoilers and deeper bumpers and side skirts.
I have two sets of wheels and tyres to ensure mobility when the white stuff arrives. I have averaged 28mpg. Worst tank was 15mpg best being 27mpg. This is in line with what I expected.
I have spent around £1000 on upgrading the audio, replaced all speakers, added an amplifier and bigger subs and fitted a sat Nav DVD system to play pepper pig.
Spent a further £250 on fitting LED lights. Also as expected and £250 on a second hand intake for more frontal noise.
Second set of wheels 5.7vxr's where £800 and vredstein winter tyres where £600. Spent a further £320 on tyres in the summer for Michelin pilot super sports.
Servicing however has been a lot more than expected. Nothing major has gone wrong but each visit to monkfish has seen me parting with £600 - £1000 replacing wear and tear items such as
Radiator
Top mounts
Tracking
Clutch slave cylinder
Drive shafts
Brake pads rear AP's
And a couple of services
Next service will be front discs and pads AP's (ouch)
I believe I have bought a good well looked after car, saying that they do have the potential to empty your pockets and not just at your local she'll garage.
As a final comment you don't begrudge it as soon as the pig iron lump fires and crackles into life. The moral for me is earn more money which I am certainly trying.
Thanks for that detail on costs. Everything on there looks normal for a performance car but the drive shafts are a bit of a surprise. What mileage did it have on before needing changing?I have two sets of wheels and tyres to ensure mobility when the white stuff arrives. I have averaged 28mpg. Worst tank was 15mpg best being 27mpg. This is in line with what I expected.
I have spent around £1000 on upgrading the audio, replaced all speakers, added an amplifier and bigger subs and fitted a sat Nav DVD system to play pepper pig.
Spent a further £250 on fitting LED lights. Also as expected and £250 on a second hand intake for more frontal noise.
Second set of wheels 5.7vxr's where £800 and vredstein winter tyres where £600. Spent a further £320 on tyres in the summer for Michelin pilot super sports.
Servicing however has been a lot more than expected. Nothing major has gone wrong but each visit to monkfish has seen me parting with £600 - £1000 replacing wear and tear items such as
Radiator
Top mounts
Tracking
Clutch slave cylinder
Drive shafts
Brake pads rear AP's
And a couple of services
Next service will be front discs and pads AP's (ouch)
I believe I have bought a good well looked after car, saying that they do have the potential to empty your pockets and not just at your local she'll garage.
As a final comment you don't begrudge it as soon as the pig iron lump fires and crackles into life. The moral for me is earn more money which I am certainly trying.
I've done them on a V6 Galaxy (weak point) but never needed on any BMW's I've had.
Is the clutch slave cylinder a weak point or just bad luck?
With the AP Brakes I can understand the caliper being expensive because it's big but are the AP pads and discs also priced higher than 'normal' quality brands like Brembo, EBC etc (which I've found to be excellent and reasonable price on a BMW).
Ps you might want to get them 'Peppa Pig' on the in car tv unless they like cooking shows then 'Pepper pig' will be just fine!
Sohlman said:
I came from BMW's and there is a fair amount of slop in the transmission and axle compared to an m5 for example. Diffs clonk a bit. The drive shafts while not worn out had about an inch of play in them. Made a massive difference to the car and removed nearly all of the transmission slack. Car was at 78k at the time.
Clutch master cylinder was bad luck. Radiators and top mounts are very common.
AP's are massive and fully floating so around £300-400 per disc plus £200 for pads so it's just about £1000
Re the Ap's. What sort of life are you getting assuming no track days, just fast road use?Clutch master cylinder was bad luck. Radiators and top mounts are very common.
AP's are massive and fully floating so around £300-400 per disc plus £200 for pads so it's just about £1000
At a £1000 per axle its something to keep in mind but at least you can plan for it if you know expected lifespan...
Re the diff, Janosh's car felt quite tight after all the work it has but I remember slack in a Falcon I've driven. Even with BMW's there is play but much less, people spend ages on trying take away every last clunk on some BMW's not realising it's pretty tight already. My Z3 has a poly diff bush mount and subframe mounts which has tighter that up but it still has a light clunk characteristic of the car.
An inch of play sounds a lot though, worthwhile upgrades the sounds of it.
At the risk of going completely of topic how do you compare this your V8 M5?
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