Looking for a T350, advice appreciated.
Discussion
Good evening all,
I'm after a little bit of advice. I've been after a T350 for a while now and, having sold my car on Friday I'm now in a position to start looking more seriously. There are a few around at perhaps the lower end of the price scale (c. £25-27k) which would leave me with a reasonable war chest in the event of issues/the need to tinker with it a bit. However, they each have their pluses and minuses.
I guess the main question is, given two cars of similar price, one with a rebuild and one without, would I be foolish to go with the non engine rebuild? There are a few things that I would ideally like in m y first choice:
Obviously in good nick
Engine rebuild
Replacement/uprated shocks
New clutch
Air con
A colour that I like
All of the currently available ones are a compromise on some of these points, but if all were present bar the rebuild, would that be a reason to look elsewhere? I was at the Neil Garner open day at the weekend and a few of the people I spoke to were of the opinion that, as long as the car is looked after and the engine is warmed up properly there is no problem with the Speed 6.
Some of them are low mileage as expected, but having been for sale for a little while, they've probably not moved much recently. Would buying from a recognised dealer with a reasonable warranty be enough to allay any fears about lack of use? Presumably any issues coming to light would be rectified under the warranty.
As an additional query, there is one currently for sale from TVR-Mads which ticks all the boxes bar the colour, but it has been for sale for quite some time. Has anyone been to look at it, or knows the car, that might be able to enlighten me as to why this isn't moving?
One final question, how do people get on with the ground clearance on these? My last car would run aground a bit coming out the end of our lane due to the slope on the lane meeting the camber on the road, but this was pretty low, probably less than 100mm at the front overhang. I never had a problem with speed bumps/pillows and I presume these aren't too bad either but is there anything I should look out for as they're certainly pretty low at the rear.
Thanks for reading!
Ian
I'm after a little bit of advice. I've been after a T350 for a while now and, having sold my car on Friday I'm now in a position to start looking more seriously. There are a few around at perhaps the lower end of the price scale (c. £25-27k) which would leave me with a reasonable war chest in the event of issues/the need to tinker with it a bit. However, they each have their pluses and minuses.
I guess the main question is, given two cars of similar price, one with a rebuild and one without, would I be foolish to go with the non engine rebuild? There are a few things that I would ideally like in m y first choice:
Obviously in good nick
Engine rebuild
Replacement/uprated shocks
New clutch
Air con
A colour that I like
All of the currently available ones are a compromise on some of these points, but if all were present bar the rebuild, would that be a reason to look elsewhere? I was at the Neil Garner open day at the weekend and a few of the people I spoke to were of the opinion that, as long as the car is looked after and the engine is warmed up properly there is no problem with the Speed 6.
Some of them are low mileage as expected, but having been for sale for a little while, they've probably not moved much recently. Would buying from a recognised dealer with a reasonable warranty be enough to allay any fears about lack of use? Presumably any issues coming to light would be rectified under the warranty.
As an additional query, there is one currently for sale from TVR-Mads which ticks all the boxes bar the colour, but it has been for sale for quite some time. Has anyone been to look at it, or knows the car, that might be able to enlighten me as to why this isn't moving?
One final question, how do people get on with the ground clearance on these? My last car would run aground a bit coming out the end of our lane due to the slope on the lane meeting the camber on the road, but this was pretty low, probably less than 100mm at the front overhang. I never had a problem with speed bumps/pillows and I presume these aren't too bad either but is there anything I should look out for as they're certainly pretty low at the rear.
Thanks for reading!
Ian
Hi AOK,
Thanks for the welcome and your comments. Food for thought there.
The intention is that it will be a car that is used. I'm not particularly interested in a garage queen as my last car will attest to, although I do like to keep them looking something like it, so I'll take your advice and try and hunt down one that is owned by someone like minded. A number of the dealer ones advertised on here seem to be low mileage, and a few have been hanging around for a while so not getting a lot of use. Even at 60k miles that's still only 5000 a year for some of these cars so hardly over used.
There are a couple that I have my eye on that I'm waiting for some info about. If they seem good I may try to go and have look at them. I just need to exercise some restraint and make sure I don't buy the first one I try. Will power isn't necessarily my strong point!
Thanks,
Ian
Thanks for the welcome and your comments. Food for thought there.
The intention is that it will be a car that is used. I'm not particularly interested in a garage queen as my last car will attest to, although I do like to keep them looking something like it, so I'll take your advice and try and hunt down one that is owned by someone like minded. A number of the dealer ones advertised on here seem to be low mileage, and a few have been hanging around for a while so not getting a lot of use. Even at 60k miles that's still only 5000 a year for some of these cars so hardly over used.
There are a couple that I have my eye on that I'm waiting for some info about. If they seem good I may try to go and have look at them. I just need to exercise some restraint and make sure I don't buy the first one I try. Will power isn't necessarily my strong point!
Thanks,
Ian
RobertoBlanco said:
Sorry to butt in Ian [TS], but this is on of the best, if not THE best posting I've read for some time.
T vs. C - You really have to think for some time to know if you want a Targa or not. For me this was highly desired, but in the end wasn't really in the upper part of my wanted list. Basically what you will get is a coupe, where you can either have a "sunroof" or not. The roof line without the bubbles is also much cleaner, if your an aesthete.The panels sometimes have trouble with tightness and latches. Also T's are much rarer and therefore more expensive. So for me nice to have, but with drawbacks. I chose mine on colour and miss out on the Targa tops instead.
Colour - This is one of the biggest selling points for me. I want lively, bright colours. Dark and boring colours are for family estates and compnay cars. These cars want to stand out. No need to go for colours which do not stand out as much, I feel the design comes alive even more with bright colours. A respray with colour change might be an option, but a very costly one (5k-10k).
Rebuild vs. no rebuild - For me this is a no brainer. The engine is in principle a good design. I think thats beyond dispute. When you don't do stupid things with the engine, the chances are high that it will be a reliable one. The more they are used, the less whoes they seem to have. So probably not the best idea to go simply by mileage. Most of the niggles should've been sorted with the later engines anyway, I'm told. With a rebuild you could get the same or new whoes, based on who rebuilds the engine. I was wondering why some engines had to be rebuild more than once with mileages < 100k. Either it's abuse/misuse or bad workmanship/parts from the first rebuild.
So for me a rebuild is not a guarantee, that the engine can go wrong in the future, especially when I do not properly warm up the oil, etc..
If you're after more displacement a rebuild can be the answer.
Shocks/Suspension - Personally this is the area where my T350 lacked the most and what I'd like to remedy in the future. I have a set of GAZ Gold Pro installed and the car still rides on its first bushings. I really would like to try out the standard shocks, since I'm not completely satisfied with how the GAZ behave on standard roads. Mine will get refurbed with stiffer springs and then I'll try to set them up again. Also new bushes.
So, why not original Bilstein shocks? I heard very good critique about their performance. You could always change later to aftermarket parts if you fancy.
Clutch/Slave/Master - This can be a PITA. The design of the slave cylinder is a rather messy one. They should've used a standard part from the market either hydraulic or mechanically operated. If not installed properly (and even then) slaves tend to fail pretty often. After that the master needs replacing, too.
Not too sure about the clutch. It's not the friction plates getting used up too quickly, but more due to the fingers breaking sometimes. I feel that most of the time it's a prob with the slave, not the clutch itself.
But always a good thing if it was replaced, because geting a clutch changed is a bigger bill.
Aircon - If you want to use the car the whole year and not always want to drive with the windows down you should buy one with Aircon. Not sure if they can still be refitted and if, it's big $$. IIRC it was 2k on mine (previous owner)
Chassis - When I see a TVR I look to the wheel arches first and try to see, if the frame is not only in good nick with intact powder coating, but also if the chassis has been cleaned where you can see the car was looked looked after. Maybe I'm a pedant, but I clean my chassis at least once a year also to inspect it, check bushings, shocks, etc.
Warranty - Always good to have, but don't shy away from private sales. Often the dealers cannot give you all the sensible info about the car, how it was treated, what has been done, why the owner is selling, etc. Also private sales should be cheaper. Advice: Buy from a fellow PHer or from a T350 owners group member on FB. The cars should well known in the community, you can get first hand info from the owner and I would presume that someone who is on the TVR section of PH cares about his car, which should be reflected in the cars' maintenance status.
Also bring an other knowlegdeable TVR owner with you, when looking at a car and testdriving it. They should give you pointers where to look and know how such cars should sound and drive.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for this. It gives me some more to think about...although I'm afraid I'm going to start over thinking it all before long! I take it when you refer to the engine rebuild as being a no-brainer, you think that it's not an essential? That's pretty much my way of thinking, and that it's possibly a nice to have. I've found one with a Powers 4.3l rebuild with over 2 years left on the warranty which one to consider. T vs. C - You really have to think for some time to know if you want a Targa or not. For me this was highly desired, but in the end wasn't really in the upper part of my wanted list. Basically what you will get is a coupe, where you can either have a "sunroof" or not. The roof line without the bubbles is also much cleaner, if your an aesthete.The panels sometimes have trouble with tightness and latches. Also T's are much rarer and therefore more expensive. So for me nice to have, but with drawbacks. I chose mine on colour and miss out on the Targa tops instead.
Colour - This is one of the biggest selling points for me. I want lively, bright colours. Dark and boring colours are for family estates and compnay cars. These cars want to stand out. No need to go for colours which do not stand out as much, I feel the design comes alive even more with bright colours. A respray with colour change might be an option, but a very costly one (5k-10k).
Rebuild vs. no rebuild - For me this is a no brainer. The engine is in principle a good design. I think thats beyond dispute. When you don't do stupid things with the engine, the chances are high that it will be a reliable one. The more they are used, the less whoes they seem to have. So probably not the best idea to go simply by mileage. Most of the niggles should've been sorted with the later engines anyway, I'm told. With a rebuild you could get the same or new whoes, based on who rebuilds the engine. I was wondering why some engines had to be rebuild more than once with mileages < 100k. Either it's abuse/misuse or bad workmanship/parts from the first rebuild.
So for me a rebuild is not a guarantee, that the engine can go wrong in the future, especially when I do not properly warm up the oil, etc..
If you're after more displacement a rebuild can be the answer.
Shocks/Suspension - Personally this is the area where my T350 lacked the most and what I'd like to remedy in the future. I have a set of GAZ Gold Pro installed and the car still rides on its first bushings. I really would like to try out the standard shocks, since I'm not completely satisfied with how the GAZ behave on standard roads. Mine will get refurbed with stiffer springs and then I'll try to set them up again. Also new bushes.
So, why not original Bilstein shocks? I heard very good critique about their performance. You could always change later to aftermarket parts if you fancy.
Clutch/Slave/Master - This can be a PITA. The design of the slave cylinder is a rather messy one. They should've used a standard part from the market either hydraulic or mechanically operated. If not installed properly (and even then) slaves tend to fail pretty often. After that the master needs replacing, too.
Not too sure about the clutch. It's not the friction plates getting used up too quickly, but more due to the fingers breaking sometimes. I feel that most of the time it's a prob with the slave, not the clutch itself.
But always a good thing if it was replaced, because geting a clutch changed is a bigger bill.
Aircon - If you want to use the car the whole year and not always want to drive with the windows down you should buy one with Aircon. Not sure if they can still be refitted and if, it's big $$. IIRC it was 2k on mine (previous owner)
Chassis - When I see a TVR I look to the wheel arches first and try to see, if the frame is not only in good nick with intact powder coating, but also if the chassis has been cleaned where you can see the car was looked looked after. Maybe I'm a pedant, but I clean my chassis at least once a year also to inspect it, check bushings, shocks, etc.
Warranty - Always good to have, but don't shy away from private sales. Often the dealers cannot give you all the sensible info about the car, how it was treated, what has been done, why the owner is selling, etc. Also private sales should be cheaper. Advice: Buy from a fellow PHer or from a T350 owners group member on FB. The cars should well known in the community, you can get first hand info from the owner and I would presume that someone who is on the TVR section of PH cares about his car, which should be reflected in the cars' maintenance status.
Also bring an other knowlegdeable TVR owner with you, when looking at a car and testdriving it. They should give you pointers where to look and know how such cars should sound and drive.
Hope this helps.
Out of interest, things like clutch replacement, is DIY an option? I removed, rebuilt (inc. clutch change) and replaced the engine in my last car so in the event of needing a new clutch, is this possibly something I could do myself, thus reducing the price a little.
With regard to taking a knowledgeable owner with me when looking at cars, if I were to buy a car from a recognised TVR specialist, I presume that this would mostly negate the need for this? I would hope that any reputable dealer of such a niche product would be pretty open and honest about their cars, or am I being a bit naïve?
Thanks for your input on this!
Ian
thainy77 said:
See the link below, i was a previous owner and did 90% of the mods to the car at MADS.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thanks for the link. Did you get any feedback on the current state of the car after that? It seems to have been for sale from there for well over a year now and not going, despite having what one would think are all the desirable modifications. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thanks,
Ian
Milky400 said:
I bought from a well respected dealer and it was a nightmare when it showed signs of an engine rebuild being needed and this was 50 miles after collecting. Warranty was capped at £1-2k from memeory and after two independant report, the dealer reluctantly refunded me.
All in all an 8-10 week process and alot of my own time and money wasted travelling too and from the two main engine rebuilders. Believe it or not he tried reselling the car the day i returned it knowing of its faults, some more serious/dangerous than the engine rebuild.
This car has since been sold as i have seen pictures of it at the recent TVRCC event at Milbrook. I just hope that the dealer did the decent thing and either repaired the faults or made the poor buyer fully aware of its engine and dangerous chassis issues
Long story short, dont discount private purchases, ive not looked back since.
That's not good to hear! I'm certainly happy to buy privately, it's just a case of finding private ones for sale. All of the ones on here are trade sales apart from one which is up for £38k which is more than I'm intending on spending. Typically there were a few private sales when I first started looking to sell my car to fund this but seems that they're all sold now....a bit of patience is needed here I think.All in all an 8-10 week process and alot of my own time and money wasted travelling too and from the two main engine rebuilders. Believe it or not he tried reselling the car the day i returned it knowing of its faults, some more serious/dangerous than the engine rebuild.
This car has since been sold as i have seen pictures of it at the recent TVRCC event at Milbrook. I just hope that the dealer did the decent thing and either repaired the faults or made the poor buyer fully aware of its engine and dangerous chassis issues
Long story short, dont discount private purchases, ive not looked back since.
Thanks!
tunepipe911 said:
by the way ,I prefer T model as it is less warm in hot weather with the roofpanels off,a good aircon does the job as well,
but the open air is a different thing,
R,
Another nice option but the open air is a different thing,
R,
I've got used to open top motoring in my last car (VX220) and think a T would be nice but given how few of them are about I'm not going to hold out specifically for one, although if one came up for sale at a price that was right.... Thanks for all the input everybody (and Charlie for letting me have a nose round his car the other day). I've hopefully struck lucky and found a 54 plate halcyon Midas pearl number for sale privately which I should be picking up next weekend! A much shorter search than I was anticipating but it looked to be in such good condition it seemed a shame to pass it up
RobertoBlanco said:
You can work on pretty much everything on the car by yourself, especially the mechanics. You'll need a few axle stands, better a small scissor lift. We've worked on the power train before, changed the clutch just this year. So, no magic involved there especially if you have knowledge from working on your previous cars.
Good stuff, thanks. I think service related stuff I'll probably leave as it seems pretty essential to maintain a record of services from recognised garages but other stuff it's good to know I can have a go at fixing first. Although that inevitably leads down the modification route.......better not tell the wife 
ChazUwe said:
No problem showing you round my T350T, hope it helped to cement your decision on the lovely one you have put a deposit down on! Have you got a collection day yet? I remember I had to wait a couple of weeks for Str8six to fully prep the car for hand over and it felt like forever.... Was so excited
If you are planning on doing little jobs yourself you might want to try and get a copy of Graham Varley's Sagaris Bible/workshop manual. One currently on ebay. They are rare so go for quite high prices (anywhere between £80 and most I saw was £320!) but it is very very good.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-Sagaris-Bible-By-Gra...
Picking it up on Saturday.....it's been such a long week already and it's only Tuesday!! Looks lie the weather might be on the up as well so with a bit of luck I'll get it home in the dry....If you are planning on doing little jobs yourself you might want to try and get a copy of Graham Varley's Sagaris Bible/workshop manual. One currently on ebay. They are rare so go for quite high prices (anywhere between £80 and most I saw was £320!) but it is very very good.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-Sagaris-Bible-By-Gra...
Thanks for the link to the bible. I'll take a look
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