V12V Bamford Rose upgrade - cat is out of the bag!!

[johng39]

Some of you already know that I have been pondering the upgrade and in discussion with Mike since Yeti had his exhaust modified. Well on 1st October 2012 my V12V will be in for mods that Mike believes will give me 1 or 2 extra BHP. As the cat seems to be out of the bag, I will start a thread that in fairness will take us into October to finalise. So for all DBS & V12V owners, watch this space. I know that Guy is having the same work done (perhaps minus the inlet manifolds) so there will be some comparisons to be had.

I am looking for a different noise to the Yeti mobil and want to retain the deeper baritone of the standard car, so we will see what is available. The Yeti exhaust was a no compromise solution, whereas mine will have some compromise to adjust the cost and sound available.

I will be very honest on the feedback when it comes back the week after and we are experimenting with 2 possible scenario's

1) Exhaust/Cams - 7650 redline (up from 7000) and approx 60BHP delta increase & +15NM torque
2) Exhaust/Cams/Inlets - 7000 redline approx 45BHP delta increase & +50NM torque

From Mikes email

Here is what we will do....

1- Dyno test car
2- Update with exhaust manifold, catalysts and induction system
3- Dyno test
4- Update with high lift cams
5- Dyno test
6- Give car back to you for a spin and big grin....!

The delta increase we deliver will be no less than 60BHP. There will be a torque increase across the rev range from 1000 rpm in the order of approx. 15Nm. Any upgrade project we deliver comes with 3 year unlimited mileage warranty,guarantee that MOT emissions test and noise tests are passed, but most importantly – no driveability error states or MIL (check engine light)
errors.

I mentioned in our last telephone conversation that we could fit the long tract inlet manifolds fitted to DB9's. This would give significant torque increase (+50Nm) from 1000 to 5500rpm, but power would tail off by about 15BHP from what you would have at step 6 above (your new redline will be 7650 rpm). The inlet manifolds could be painted any colour you liked. This engine power output characteristic might not sound like it floats your boat, but driving a V12V with this much torque would be interesting - it might even change your driving style because you might like the monster torque delivered??.

So watch this space and I will let you all know if the upgrade is worth pursuing or just makes the car totally undriveable for us mere mortals.

The cheeky cockerneeee

[johng39]

krisdelta said:

Sounds awesome - is the throttle response on the V12V already better than the V8?

er yes. Instant, especially with sport on (which is always)

[johng39]

Jockman said:

Did you really intend the pun in the title Cockernee?

not when I typed it, but I did smile when I re-read it.

[johng39]

yeti said:

Gor blimey guv'nor, that'll be a right 'ed turner and no mistake

What are your feelings at the moment John, the big power or the big torque? The big torque does seem the best compromise TBH - 45bhp is no small amount and 50Nm on a n/a engine is a very big amount!!

For me it is whether it feels like it is wheezing at the top end (like Nick does now he has stopped smoking ) with the torque and less power. Headline numbers count for nought without torque with regard to acceleration/drivability, but it is well documented that I drive between 5 & 7K whenever I can. This is why we were considering the exhaust/cam option only but the issue is the max power is pushed up the rev range a lot and with the inlet manifolds it brings it back to 6,500 (whereas standard it is 6250). Without the inlets the rev limiter needs to be at 7,650, which again is adding more stress to wring the best from the engine. On the flip side, I struggle for grip now and a barrel load of torque may make it impossible to drive in low gears. All a bit of an experiment, as with you

jonby said:

What are the CAM upgrades you refer to and are you able to give an idea to cost/power increase of CAMs alone ? I thought there was c. 45/50 bhp gain from manifold/cats alone, or is that where you are having the 'cheaper option' you refer to and the CAM upgrades make up the difference

I am already planning for V12VR and had assumed I would just go for the manifold/cats option.........

Yeti's exhaust is a no compromise effort that I felt was a) expensive & b) did not deliver the noise I wanted c) could be done almost as good for less money.

Mike is the man that can answer this, I cannot offer a number exactly but I believe that Yeti's exhaust increased delta by 72bhp and the lesser article is expected to produce a delta of 60ish bhp

[johng39]

Zod said:

Could we have an indication of cost, please?

£6.5K+VAT for exhaust/cams is on Mikes post

[johng39]

hornbaek said:

Have any of you ever driven the V12V on a German unrestricted Autobahn. If not, I suggest that you do that before you book it into BR for a power and sound upgrade. I have just come home from a European hoon in my V12V and to claim that this car is short of power or sound is simply ludicrous. On UK roads there is not even a remote chance of utilising the existing power of this car and adding more would simply result in spinning the wheels faster from a standing start. The first step to more sound is simply to remove the parcel shelf in the back. I drove without that as I had my road bike in the back but the sound level inside the cabin is significantly enhanced without the shelf, making any sort of conversation totally meaningless.

Now if a BR upgrade is simply for the joy of pushing the envelope to see how far it stretches and money is no object I think it is a fabulous idea and fully endorse the exercise but if it is a means of getting a more drivable car then I think it will all be in vain - good luck anyway and will be interested to read the result.

You sound like my MRS

Why is always her question......... because you can is always my answer

[johng39]

Tony V12V said:

johng39 said:

Zod said:

Could we have an indication of cost, please?

£6.5K+VAT for exhaust/cams is on Mikes post

Should that not be exhaust and cats John ?

Not according to Mike's email to me. I think our discussions changed the spec of the exhaust so that alone would be more cost effective but then to get back the loss you need the cams. As said Yeti's is a no compromise solution. It is all in flux Tony as it is a new solution, so it is a case of watch this space and i will report back to V12V / DBS owners the difference. Once done, come down and have a go

[johng39]

woolders]ockman said:

I think that - as a former professional driver? - Cockernee does know what he wants out of his car

Was he a chauffeur?

No a racing driver

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/8291
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=16&i=1661 - It was a long time ago....
http://www.caterham.co.uk/motorsport/hall-of-fame.... - Roadsports A
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-32-Scalextric-Taran-Cate... - I have a collection of these sad I know........

Is that enough boasting???

Edited by johng39 on Wednesday 5th September 17:24

[johng39]

Car on it's way to BR.

Someone asked me is it being re possessed..... I said no but when I get it back it may well be possessed .
The power graphs will start appearing next week

[johng39]

I will post up the actual graphs later when I get them and then next Tuesday the difference with just the exhaust and by Thursday with Exhaust / Cams and Finally Monday 15th with the Exhaust cams and inlets.

Anyway headline figures are:

Factory published:
570Nm @ 5750 rpm
510 BHP @ 6750 rpm

Actual JON70Y:
556Nm @ 6000 rpm
507 bhp @ 6750 rpm

So I am already in the 500+ club

All V12V and DBS owners Keep watching.

[johng39]

mikey k said:

Nice to see it not far off the AM published figures!
You do realise all that extra power will result in deeper stone chips

I doubt it Mikey, everyone will be behind me

[johng39]

Well exhausts only fitted at the moment, cams tomorrow. I will have some graphs for you all to see tomorrow also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQaldT9NsxQ

Headline numbers from the exhaust are +33BHP so from 507 to 540 BHP @ 7000rpm

Torque up 40Nm across the rev range & 591Nm @ 6100rpm

[johng39]

George H said:

Ooh almost as much torque as a DB9

Sounds fun though, am really looking forward to hearing the low grumbly engine sound rather than Yeti's high pitched one when it's all done

it will have more by tomorrow George and then we will experiment with DB9 inlets for approx 630+Nm on Monday .

It will probably be 550BHP with cams and around 600Nm, but with DB9 inlets it will lose some headline BHP for another bucket full of torque. Mike sounded like a child with a new toy on the phone, sadly for him I will be taking his toy away on Tuesday.

[johng39]

yeti said:

That'd be ideal for outrunning the Sweeney after you've done a blag!

Pleased with those numbers? I reckon you should be! Are these still the standard short inlet manifolds rather than long-tract DB9 ones, or are they going on with the cams?

That is only exhausts. Cams tomorrow, inlets Monday.

[johng39]

AMDBSNick said:

What time me ole china

Lunchtime run on the RR. They went in early to get the work done. I believe that they worked past midnight on Wednesday too......... nutters.

[johng39]

OK, just received a text from Mike.

Exhaust and Cams now

565BHP @ 6900RPM
599Nm @ 6090 RPM

+58BHP over standard
+43Nm over standard

Inlets scrapped and some graphs to compare.

Edited by johng39 on Friday 12th October 19:48

[johng39]

The Pits said:

Sounds very similar to standard on the video (no bad thing by the way)

Impressive gains. Should be an absolute monster now.

Peak torque seems unusally high at 6k?

Is the cut out still set at 7k?

Standard on V12V is 5750, so moved up 250 rpm. Rev limit 7500 . Remember it has gained over 40 Nm across the range also.

For me the whole idea was not to change the noise, only make it a little louder. Mike says that the crackle on over run and in between gear changes is fantastic. I couldn't speak much as he was having difficulty due to his face muscles aching from the stupid grin.

[johng39]

Guycord said:

John, do I read correctly that you are not putting the DB9 Inlet Manifolds on now? If so what was the problem/decision on that?

I am now contemplating the paradigm-shift these cars will have. The gap in IMHO between a 4.7 V8V and the 6.0 V12V is hugh with a (top of head) 90bhp delta. Cant remember the torque delta, but to move another 60bhp out again.....

Cant wait...but unfortunately going to have to!

Morning Guy.

The DB9 manifolds would probably lose 20 bhp and gain 20Nm only in the midrange. Mike likened it to a diesel character rather than what we now have. One of the things I want is a car that pulls all the way to the redline and now we have it.

[johng39]

AdamV8V said:

yeti said:

Cockers, that is a fantastic result - when do you collect?)

John, you have mail.

Tuesday.

Adam, you have a reply with my number.

[johng39]

jonby said:

Sounds amazing John

What have you done to the cats on your system ? Have the ones 'downstream' near the backbox remained untouched ? And the ones upstream in the manifolds/collectors that you have changed for the BR system, removed ?

Cats removed in manifolds, 200 cell cats to replace the 2 main ones downstream of manifolds. Get your new one booked in cheers..