Advice re: Warranty & Dealer issues on DB7 Volante
Discussion
Apologies if a) not a regular here, and b) not in the right place but could do with a bit of advice on behalf of my parents whom recently purchased a late 90s Aston DB7 Volante from a dealer down south, a dealer whom has a strong reuptation for both AM & Jag we are told.
The vehicle was sold as ultra low miles (13k) 1 owner, and on viewing & TD there were a couple of minor niggles, noted as thus:
1) drivers electric window didn't shut 100%, meaning the vehicle is not a) water tight or b) secure - Needed attention
2) both seat belts were not recoiling and needed attention/replacing. They have been apart as the B pillar covers are loose, and the dealer admits to "spraying them with WD40"
Upon collection none of the above had been addressed, but due to travelling 6hours south to fetch the car, my parents agreed to take it, on the condition that the items would be fixed under warranty.
Upon getting home it also became apparent that:
3) the red master key is AWOL - despite being there at TD
4) the service history & owners manual are not for this vehicle, despite being correct when viewed and TD.
5) back tyres, 1 has been replaced but not the other. So one is a brand new of 1x make and the other has probably 3k miles left in it of another pattern and brand
My parents contacted the dealer, and got the owners son, whom stated he would of course sort the issues ASAP and inform his father (the owner).
One week has passed, and despite repeated calls and emails stating the issues my parents have been told that:
issues 1 & 2 will "fix themselves with use" and the rest shall be "sorted ASAP".
Now they are getting increasingly fed-up and what should've been a nice retirement present for my mum, is now sitting at home looking like a "lemon".
Mechanically the car is good, but these niggles are an annoyance and also worrying as the dealers attitude is somewhat dire.
A local prestige specialist has advised of a bill circa £1k to put the car right, including 2x new seat belts as they're MOT fails, sorting the window, a matching new rear tyre and all associated labour..... Fairly reasonable.
My father is getting exasperated with endless calls and empty promises, so I suggested he offers the dealer one of the following 3 outcomes:
1) the dealer has the vehicle collected, taken back to them, all works carried out FOC and then re-delivered.
2) the local specialist fixes all the issues, and then invoices the dealer
3) Myself and father trek south this weekend, dump the vehicle on the dealer and demand a refund under the "sale of goods act"
Now the latter may appear harsh, but I am not as forgiving as my parents and don't like seeing honest people with a good heart being "f
ked about" when they're put a large sum of money (For them - not compared to the PH massive) into a vehicle that was sold as IMMACULATE.
My mother won't drive it as the drivers seat belt is now so bad, that it won't even tighten to your body.
Could the PH Aston owners advise our best course of action? Anything I have missed?
The vehicle was sold as ultra low miles (13k) 1 owner, and on viewing & TD there were a couple of minor niggles, noted as thus:
1) drivers electric window didn't shut 100%, meaning the vehicle is not a) water tight or b) secure - Needed attention
2) both seat belts were not recoiling and needed attention/replacing. They have been apart as the B pillar covers are loose, and the dealer admits to "spraying them with WD40"
Upon collection none of the above had been addressed, but due to travelling 6hours south to fetch the car, my parents agreed to take it, on the condition that the items would be fixed under warranty.
Upon getting home it also became apparent that:
3) the red master key is AWOL - despite being there at TD
4) the service history & owners manual are not for this vehicle, despite being correct when viewed and TD.
5) back tyres, 1 has been replaced but not the other. So one is a brand new of 1x make and the other has probably 3k miles left in it of another pattern and brand
My parents contacted the dealer, and got the owners son, whom stated he would of course sort the issues ASAP and inform his father (the owner).
One week has passed, and despite repeated calls and emails stating the issues my parents have been told that:
issues 1 & 2 will "fix themselves with use" and the rest shall be "sorted ASAP".
Now they are getting increasingly fed-up and what should've been a nice retirement present for my mum, is now sitting at home looking like a "lemon".
Mechanically the car is good, but these niggles are an annoyance and also worrying as the dealers attitude is somewhat dire.
A local prestige specialist has advised of a bill circa £1k to put the car right, including 2x new seat belts as they're MOT fails, sorting the window, a matching new rear tyre and all associated labour..... Fairly reasonable.
My father is getting exasperated with endless calls and empty promises, so I suggested he offers the dealer one of the following 3 outcomes:
1) the dealer has the vehicle collected, taken back to them, all works carried out FOC and then re-delivered.
2) the local specialist fixes all the issues, and then invoices the dealer
3) Myself and father trek south this weekend, dump the vehicle on the dealer and demand a refund under the "sale of goods act"
Now the latter may appear harsh, but I am not as forgiving as my parents and don't like seeing honest people with a good heart being "f
ked about" when they're put a large sum of money (For them - not compared to the PH massive) into a vehicle that was sold as IMMACULATE.My mother won't drive it as the drivers seat belt is now so bad, that it won't even tighten to your body.
Could the PH Aston owners advise our best course of action? Anything I have missed?
Thanks for your advice. Annoyingly they bought it without telling me otherwise I would've told them to walk as there's better, cheaper and more local.
Unfortunately they bought with their hearts and on the basis that a well regarded specialist was worth the money, especially on a one owner car that'd done just over 1,000 miles pa previously owned by a collector.
It should be their p&j but mother won't drive it due to the seat belts & window and father just wants rid.
Galling thing is they chopped in a genuine immaculate xk8 against this....
Unfortunately they bought with their hearts and on the basis that a well regarded specialist was worth the money, especially on a one owner car that'd done just over 1,000 miles pa previously owned by a collector.
It should be their p&j but mother won't drive it due to the seat belts & window and father just wants rid.
Galling thing is they chopped in a genuine immaculate xk8 against this....
yeti said:
The ones who screwed me over, whilst not Aston specialists, are apparently highly respected Specialist Sports Car dealers. Based in Harrogate. Liars, cheats and theives.
The problem was distance. They know I couldn't get back up there, especially with an undriveable car!!!
Exactly the same. This lot are supposed specialists in jag/aml/etc and are using distance as an issue.The problem was distance. They know I couldn't get back up there, especially with an undriveable car!!!
Thank you for the advice, glad to see the posh bit of PH is as helpful as the snotter sections
Re: independent specialists, there any PH approved ones in Lincolnshire or Yorkshire?
DB7 pilot said:
Can't get as close as Lincoln or Yorkshire, but Bridge Mill Motors in Macclesfield get positive reviews on here. Try this link: http://www.bridgemillmotors.co.uk/
Thanks, will pass it on. Perhaps worth a phone-call To seek advice or whether they'd do repair work F1 NDW said:
Bridge Mill are excellent guy's. They will do everything you require. Very helpful lad's and do a very professional job.
Thanks, guessing you've used them?As an aside does £250 per seat belt, fitted sound bad for one of these?
The window gap is on the vertical edge between glass & seal, perhaps 2/3 of an inch.
GTDB7 said:
I might be missing the obvious here but is not illegal for a dealer to sell a car that is unfit for the road? Knowing full well people will be driving it home and using it etc..
IE: Seat Belts being an MOT failure?
This is my stance, and that of my fathers.IE: Seat Belts being an MOT failure?
The dealer has had the cheek to ring my father and ask him to post back the service book etc that are for the wrong car as he needs them to sell the blue one they should be with
StephenP said:
Bridge Mill do seem to get excellent feedback and a number of AMOC members seem to rate them. An alternative might be to chat to Aston Engineering in Derby (one of our DB7 owners swears by them).
Probably worth popping on to the AMOC forum too as it has a very active and (mostly!) friendly DB7 community... (I might be biased though, I'm AMOC Area Rep for the East Midlands incl Lincs!)
Thanks, one assumes thats:Probably worth popping on to the AMOC forum too as it has a very active and (mostly!) friendly DB7 community... (I might be biased though, I'm AMOC Area Rep for the East Midlands incl Lincs!)
Aston Martin Owners Club forum?
With regards the service pack etc, they've been told to figure out what they're doing regarding all the issues mentioned by the end of today.
Sensible question father asked, do DB7 always need specialists or for simple things like seat belts & windows, is it worth considering local places that he trusts?
I.e. local garage who's worked on his '64 pagoda, xk8, explorer and then my 200sx etc when heavily modified.
In essence, if he trusts them to do it, and the dealer will supply parts FOC is it worth using someone he knows for 20 years and trusts fully to do it even if they've limited AML experience?
BingoBob said:
I don't think you should give up so easily. You are certainly not powerless and there are a couple of things you can try very easily (and should) before bending over and dropping your trousers.
This is something that has worked for me in the past: Send a recorded delivery letter stating (politely) the facts and how you propose they should be resolved. Make sure that each of the problems has a monetary value attributed to it. Fill in a N1 claim form but don't sign it. Send them a copy of it unsigned and say that all you have to do is sign it and can they give you a reason not to do so.
You don't need a solicitor and you don't have to pursue the case if you don't want to, but at least show a hint of tooth before giving up.
If you do decide to pursue then you can file the N1 online for £10 and you will have the advantage of jurisdiction.
Thanks, so you'd advise to do this for all associated costs?This is something that has worked for me in the past: Send a recorded delivery letter stating (politely) the facts and how you propose they should be resolved. Make sure that each of the problems has a monetary value attributed to it. Fill in a N1 claim form but don't sign it. Send them a copy of it unsigned and say that all you have to do is sign it and can they give you a reason not to do so.
You don't need a solicitor and you don't have to pursue the case if you don't want to, but at least show a hint of tooth before giving up.
If you do decide to pursue then you can file the N1 online for £10 and you will have the advantage of jurisdiction.
FYI All: both windows have same issue, rubber seal on roof isn't letting them seal
yeti said:
Depends on the issue... generic car stuff (like the seat belts), I used to take my DB7 to the local Jag specialist, but for DB7 specific problems (like the windows might be) I used to go to Chiltern Aston.
Without wishing to open a can of worms, if they have XJS (and even XK8) experience, a lot of it will transfer to the DB7. Sure, the engines and electrics are different but lot is the same as you'd expect - they were all under the Ford umbrella at the time.
They maintained all aspects of my fathers 96 plate XK8 (concourse condition with 19k on clock) for nearly 4 years and never failed once.Without wishing to open a can of worms, if they have XJS (and even XK8) experience, a lot of it will transfer to the DB7. Sure, the engines and electrics are different but lot is the same as you'd expect - they were all under the Ford umbrella at the time.
And they're doing all the mech work on his 1964 Merc 230SL which is of similar value to DB7 so I'd say that they're trust worthy.
Whilst only a small local garage, the owner is a time served car geek and his apprentice/understudy has a degree in motorsport engineering and adores high value and modified stuff for the challenge....... So I'm a firm believer in giving a chance.
The windows, on inspection by yours truly... Appear to be getting pushed out of line by the rubber seal that is attached to the folding roof
Small update as the story from the specialist dealer is changing by the hour.
Now they're saying:
1) they want the paperwork for the other aston posting back ASAP
2) There is no red key as they don't have it
3) they no longer have the service book and associated pack that was with the car
4) my father should contact the previous dealership who supplied it new, based in Kensington some 4hours from us as they can possibly provide a letter vouching for the car
5) they need time to look into the seat belt issue as it is "complex". Funny that the local prestige car specialist made one phone call whilst my father stood waiting, gained a price for both belts and quoted for the full job to be done.
No mention of the window issue.
Now they're saying:
1) they want the paperwork for the other aston posting back ASAP
2) There is no red key as they don't have it
3) they no longer have the service book and associated pack that was with the car
4) my father should contact the previous dealership who supplied it new, based in Kensington some 4hours from us as they can possibly provide a letter vouching for the car
5) they need time to look into the seat belt issue as it is "complex". Funny that the local prestige car specialist made one phone call whilst my father stood waiting, gained a price for both belts and quoted for the full job to be done.
No mention of the window issue.
Bearing in mind this outfit are supposed to be one of the largest and best reputation around...... The company owner has emailed my father basically saying:
"fk off not my problem" (but in super smooth salemens speak) and his gofer has said it'll take a week to get a price on 2x seatbelts..... Funny how a local Jag specialist made 1 phone call to JCT600 at Leeds who are the AM part supplier they use, and within 5 mins knew they were £147.50 each and 2hours to fit properly.
My father is now at the point of booking a day off work at personal expence, and the pair of us doing the 6 hour drive south.
It saddens me immensley that earlier on the phone he ended with:
"My xk8 is still sat there for sale, I just want it back"
That was supplied by a a specialist whom had it on sale at the NEC Classic show circa 4years ago, he was nothing other than a pleasure to deal with.
Shame can't say the same about the outfit whom the DB7 was supplied by.
"f
k off not my problem" (but in super smooth salemens speak) and his gofer has said it'll take a week to get a price on 2x seatbelts..... Funny how a local Jag specialist made 1 phone call to JCT600 at Leeds who are the AM part supplier they use, and within 5 mins knew they were £147.50 each and 2hours to fit properly.My father is now at the point of booking a day off work at personal expence, and the pair of us doing the 6 hour drive south.
It saddens me immensley that earlier on the phone he ended with:
"My xk8 is still sat there for sale, I just want it back"
That was supplied by a a specialist whom had it on sale at the NEC Classic show circa 4years ago, he was nothing other than a pleasure to deal with.
Shame can't say the same about the outfit whom the DB7 was supplied by.
F1 NDW said:
This message is just shouting out loud " once we have the paperwork back from you, we will not bother to answer or do anything for you". Get what you want first. I would not trust the dealer one inch!
Ditto!I've been on there website, appears they make bold claims and "love feedback via twitter or Facebook"
Yet treat customers like this?
Mini update:
Now being told that paperwork is AWOL
With regards the rest they ain't interested
Genuinely fuming that someone spends £30,000 and gets worse service than they do 10 days later off a small trader when they buy a £750 snotter.
The specialist are now avoiding calls, fobbing us off with receptionist and "oh he's busy"
Now being told that paperwork is AWOL
With regards the rest they ain't interested
Genuinely fuming that someone spends £30,000 and gets worse service than they do 10 days later off a small trader when they buy a £750 snotter.
The specialist are now avoiding calls, fobbing us off with receptionist and "oh he's busy"
Right, another update:
Since then, the papers have magically appeared. A new service book including post-dated stamps and full SH printout from the previous dealer are being ordered.
Red key is "open to discussion" and the latest phone-a-gimp is more useful and sympathetic.
Seat belts - no real progress, they seem to think WD40 will fix knackered re-calls.
I'm tempted to do the 6hour drive on Saturday, be stood there at 10am and collect in person all the required items. Also returning their precious wrong book, and also collecting 2x new seat belts should they concur.
(All this has come since the words: "solicitor" "legal advice" and "vehicle will be returned to you by trailer on Saturday as it is not fit for road use" were mentioned)
Now the advice bit; my father is sick of the sight of it....... He sold a immaculate XK8, that he adored for this for my mum, and is now rollin' a £750 S type as a snotter.
He's sick of a £30k car being a PITA, and with no red key, no papers, it's essentially worthless..... let alone the 4x mis-matching tyres, 2x dodgy seat belts, and 2x non shutting windows.
PH experts, would you:
1) return the car, get all "PH" on their case and demand moneys/repairs etc
2) deal with it by phone and pray for a better outcome
3) Take whatever you can get and then add some cash to make the vehicle mint, and what you want
4) take whatever, then sell ASAP
I will stress that this is one of 5 cars on their fleet, and whilst not restricted by money, the old adage of "Losing the love for the car" appears to be happening..... Especially since the dealerships lack of abillity has placed enough stress on my mother to reduce her to tears.
(apologies for rant, but I am feeling some what annoyed and struggling with the whole no name and shame issue)
Since then, the papers have magically appeared. A new service book including post-dated stamps and full SH printout from the previous dealer are being ordered.
Red key is "open to discussion" and the latest phone-a-gimp is more useful and sympathetic.
Seat belts - no real progress, they seem to think WD40 will fix knackered re-calls.
I'm tempted to do the 6hour drive on Saturday, be stood there at 10am and collect in person all the required items. Also returning their precious wrong book, and also collecting 2x new seat belts should they concur.
(All this has come since the words: "solicitor" "legal advice" and "vehicle will be returned to you by trailer on Saturday as it is not fit for road use" were mentioned)
Now the advice bit; my father is sick of the sight of it....... He sold a immaculate XK8, that he adored for this for my mum, and is now rollin' a £750 S type as a snotter.
He's sick of a £30k car being a PITA, and with no red key, no papers, it's essentially worthless..... let alone the 4x mis-matching tyres, 2x dodgy seat belts, and 2x non shutting windows.
PH experts, would you:
1) return the car, get all "PH" on their case and demand moneys/repairs etc
2) deal with it by phone and pray for a better outcome
3) Take whatever you can get and then add some cash to make the vehicle mint, and what you want
4) take whatever, then sell ASAP
I will stress that this is one of 5 cars on their fleet, and whilst not restricted by money, the old adage of "Losing the love for the car" appears to be happening..... Especially since the dealerships lack of abillity has placed enough stress on my mother to reduce her to tears.
(apologies for rant, but I am feeling some what annoyed and struggling with the whole no name and shame issue)
StephenP said:
Oops, sorry! Yes.
I wouldn't send the other anything to him until you get the service history, etc in your hands.
As for red key .... I don't have one for mine either. What was it like?
I ask because the owner's manual for my DB7 Vantage Volante (2001) says the car comes with two sets of keys, each consisting of:
- One ignition/door key (Ford style shaft and black body with DB7 logo on)
- One key number tag
- One key for centre armrest storage box
- One alarm key fob
I have both sets of mine, none of which are red ....
Right. I wouldn't send the other anything to him until you get the service history, etc in your hands.
As for red key .... I don't have one for mine either. What was it like?
I ask because the owner's manual for my DB7 Vantage Volante (2001) says the car comes with two sets of keys, each consisting of:
- One ignition/door key (Ford style shaft and black body with DB7 logo on)
- One key number tag
- One key for centre armrest storage box
- One alarm key fob
I have both sets of mine, none of which are red ....
Book/papers - agree.
Key wise this came with 2x keys, no fobs.
Story from " specialist" and indeed previous maintaining dealer AND Aston who supplied the car is that it was sold to a wealthy collector type, who took it to Singapore for a couple of years then it came back... Upon doing so, somewhere in transit/relocation in the UK he lost the keys, so got new ones supplied & fitted by AM main dealer.
Hence no master.
"specialist" says - not all DB7 come with fobs
evoivboy said:
i know this chap well, i have cooked for him many times(im a chef), unfortunatly he has been doing this for many years at various sites, he has been prosecuted for clocking jags in the 90's, i nearly bought an e36 m3 of him but changed my mind as i just could'nt trust him
That worries me.To ensure we're on about the same place can you PM me either the company name OR the town it's in?
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