V12 or V8, the great debate .....
Discussion
Hello All, V12 or V8, the great debate ….
Some of you think that I have droned on about the difference between V12’s and V8’s , and one of you commented that it was getting tiresome, indeed I can understand your concern.
I am well in the camp of the V12, I guess you already knew that. Why am I in the V12 camp ?
V8’s are clearly better, they are lighter (I’m guessing full 200kg), they probably do 1/3 more to the gallon as they have 1/3 less cylinder. Because they are smaller, they can be more easily placed anywhere in the car, and of course lower down, so better handling. With Euro Emissions getting ever more stringent, V8’s are clearly the way forward, with the leviathan V12’s dying a certain death. Not forgetting that they are cheaper to produce, look at the price difference between a V8V and V12V.
Power: with the Tech advances of Turbo charging, V8’s can produce the same power and more than a V12. Indeed, the DB9 V12 started at 450 and is now 470, the V8 stared at 380, then 400, then 420 and now I understand the VS has 430, in a car that weights less, and its cheaper to produce. McLaren even said that V12’s were a thing of the past …
So if a V8 is lighter, just as powerful, smaller, more fuel efficient, and cheaper to make, then what is the point of a V12 lump?
Personally, I believe the point is quite simple.
A V12 has the X factor, I don’t mean that it can sing (Or maybe I do). The main big Supercars, the truly great cars, are V12’s. Lambo, last of the Supercars (mostly museum pieces) are big V12’s, the Vanquish (S) a 200mph Supercar, Bentley’s (W12’s), RollsRoyce, big V12’s (they developed a V16), Ferrari Enzo V12, FFX V12. Mercedes McLaren V12.
All the above cars are the outstanding cars of our time, there are many many other outstanding cars, but I pose this question, the above cars can all be pushed into a garage and they will become collectors items (if they are not already).
I ask the question, if you have a 2004 Vanquish and a 2009 Vantage, which one will you push into a garage as a true classic of it’s time? A Ferrari Enzo or a 348? A Mercedes McLaren or a SL55?
V12’s cannot be justified on any level at all, except for the X Factor, at the end of the day, it comes down to, “Wanting", a V12 over a V8.
V8’s make very very fast sports cars, V12’s make Supercars.
Some of you think that I have droned on about the difference between V12’s and V8’s , and one of you commented that it was getting tiresome, indeed I can understand your concern.
I am well in the camp of the V12, I guess you already knew that. Why am I in the V12 camp ?
V8’s are clearly better, they are lighter (I’m guessing full 200kg), they probably do 1/3 more to the gallon as they have 1/3 less cylinder. Because they are smaller, they can be more easily placed anywhere in the car, and of course lower down, so better handling. With Euro Emissions getting ever more stringent, V8’s are clearly the way forward, with the leviathan V12’s dying a certain death. Not forgetting that they are cheaper to produce, look at the price difference between a V8V and V12V.
Power: with the Tech advances of Turbo charging, V8’s can produce the same power and more than a V12. Indeed, the DB9 V12 started at 450 and is now 470, the V8 stared at 380, then 400, then 420 and now I understand the VS has 430, in a car that weights less, and its cheaper to produce. McLaren even said that V12’s were a thing of the past …
So if a V8 is lighter, just as powerful, smaller, more fuel efficient, and cheaper to make, then what is the point of a V12 lump?
Personally, I believe the point is quite simple.
A V12 has the X factor, I don’t mean that it can sing (Or maybe I do). The main big Supercars, the truly great cars, are V12’s. Lambo, last of the Supercars (mostly museum pieces) are big V12’s, the Vanquish (S) a 200mph Supercar, Bentley’s (W12’s), RollsRoyce, big V12’s (they developed a V16), Ferrari Enzo V12, FFX V12. Mercedes McLaren V12.
All the above cars are the outstanding cars of our time, there are many many other outstanding cars, but I pose this question, the above cars can all be pushed into a garage and they will become collectors items (if they are not already).
I ask the question, if you have a 2004 Vanquish and a 2009 Vantage, which one will you push into a garage as a true classic of it’s time? A Ferrari Enzo or a 348? A Mercedes McLaren or a SL55?
V12’s cannot be justified on any level at all, except for the X Factor, at the end of the day, it comes down to, “Wanting", a V12 over a V8.
V8’s make very very fast sports cars, V12’s make Supercars.
jonby said:
You finish off by appearing to suggest that V12s actually don't offer any justifiable advantage, despite having listed them as powering the great cars of our time, suggesting you only buy them for x factor
Seriously ??????
Hello Jonby, Yes Seriously.........Seriously ??????
I do stand by my statement that V12 offer no justifiable advantage over a V8, in fact a V8 I believe IS better, in almost all ways, lighter, smaller, cheaper to produce, cheaper to run, less to go wrong, can be turbo charged to produce more power, indeed twin and now quad turbos on V8's (one big and small turbo each side). Might even have less inertial to overcome (might be a slim point).
About the only point I can think a V12 wins on, is that it sounds louder and that's a objective point not a measurable one, and saying that - current tech can, "tune", an exhaust, so even that point is lost.
What I am saying is that a V12 is purely objective, I, "choose", to have one because I, "want", one. I believe that the V12 is the engine of a Supercar.
It's my opinion and choice.
Umm, if Ta Ta buy out the Middle East owners, I have a feeling that there will be a surge of investment. Will they make a V16 like Rolls Royce? Will it make the V12 look little? Or will they develop the V8, it would mean that Landrover/Jaguar engines will available to AM, it might also mean that AM engines would be available to Range Rover. Image a V12 6.0 (not 5.9) Range Rover with 570plus BHP ........
Does anyone know who is buying AM?
If so what V8 / V12 engines will be developed?
We might be surprised, we might end up with a Diesel Aston Martin, the, "V8 Vantage TD"
, I wonder how many V8 customers will move to V12's then .....?
Having said that, how many new Diesel drivers would AM get?
We won't have to worry about the great V12 / V8 debate, there wil be the great Petrol/Diesel debate .........
Does anyone know who is buying AM?
If so what V8 / V12 engines will be developed?
We might be surprised, we might end up with a Diesel Aston Martin, the, "V8 Vantage TD"
, I wonder how many V8 customers will move to V12's then .....?Having said that, how many new Diesel drivers would AM get?
We won't have to worry about the great V12 / V8 debate, there wil be the great Petrol/Diesel debate .........
I told you we were a dying breed, I didn't think our own Gassing Station would be reporting it ........
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
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