DB11 Thoughts...
Discussion
I'm lucky enough to have seen the DB11 a couple of times as it starts to do the rounds on the dealer network, and thought I'd jot down my thoughts...
First, it's a stunning thing, and the team up at AM have done a great job on it. The 'shark' styling which we first saw on the DB10 carries through, and really works. One of the problems with many of the press photos is that they are all taken at about knee height. The majority of people will see it from much higher up, unless they happen to be tying their shoelace, and the proportions look much better in the flesh.
The lines are beautiful, and the black colour line on the roof doesn't particularly glare against the grey paint on the body. Brighter colours may be slightly more jarring, however.
Some have remarked on the funny angle the wing vent seems to make. I can confirm the inside of the cutout is curved, not straight, but it still doesn't look quite right. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the whole front wheel arch doesn't look like it transcribes an arc. The bit of body panel immediately below the vent juts out, giving the visual impression it sits forward. This looks incongruous, as does the bottom of the rear part of the wheel arch, which separates away from the line of the tyre. This is probably a function of the space needed to allow the front wheels to turn, but looks a little odd to my eyes. I have real concerns on this area - the whole thing is designed to chanel the air out of the wheel arch and engine bay and down the side of the car. When the bonnet is open, the top of the wheel arch is open, and there are three cutouts in the plastic at the leading edge of the vent. The bonnet is lined in a type of soundproofing fabric, and it doesn't look anywhere near robust enough to deal with the grit, stones, tar and all the other rubbish that will get thrown off the wheels. To be fair, the plastic the vents are made of looks every bit as tough as the wheel arch liner on a Range Rover, but the painted bit of wing immediately behind this is begging to be peppered. If you armourfend one bit of the car, I'd suggest this is the bit to do.
Whilst I'm talking about the airflow, the whole airblade(TM) also interesting in 'real world' applications. The air is channelled between the rear window and the c pillar, through the top of the boot and out of the gap in the boot lid. This tube can be seen when the boot is opened - there is a bit of mesh on the car side to stop larger objects going through, but this looks ripe to be filled up with leaves, snow or other rubbish as one drives down the road. If these intakes become blocked, then the airblade(TM) won't. So, what is the impact on the handling if the virtual spoiler becomes virtual nothing? Will you spin into the ditch? Or if there is little impact, why bother having it in the first place?
The boot opening is good, opening just above the number plate. The space is claimed to be some 30% bigger than the DB9, and looks capacious enough, although I'm not a golfist so can't make that seemingly vital 'golfbag' assessment. Back to the 'real world' concerns again, and I can see that an awful lot of shopping will get wet opening the boot. The gap between the bottom of the rear screen and the lip of the boot is minimal, and although there is an extra strip of rubber, it looks like an afterthought and as such will probably work as well as one. I'd also be worried about how resilient the seals between the carside and the bootside of the air vents will be. I can also see the vent space in the boot lid filling up with water / other crap and this being deposited into the boot when it's opened. That said, the geometry of the boot opening looks like it keeps the bootside vents over the boot gulley, but, much like on my Vantage, a bit of a slope or a breath of wind will move the torrent of rainwater to fill the boot up.
There are some nice little design circles in the material around the exhaust. Very pretty, but, for the many of us that like to lavish attention on our motors, will be a pain in the harris to clean.
The inside is beautiful. The leather and the design is spectacular, and I especially like the wood veneers in the door and the centre column. The black marble-effect one, for want of a better way of describing it, is stunning.
Whilst sat inside, the headroom is very good (I'm 6'2 and could get a fist above my head), and one seems to sit much lower in the car - the side sills are very deep. The oft-commented 'Bender's Face' on the centre console really isn't noticeable from the driver's seat, although it did make me smile as I looked forward through the rear window. The infotainment screen did not look like an afterthought or a stuck-on iPad. Whilst I don't know what the interface will look like or how busy it is likely to be, personally I'd like it to fold away. The rear seats are bigger, but still by no means a 4-seater. I think it would be a real challenge to get anyone in there that could be described as 'adult'.
I realise I sound rather negative, but I just wanted to focus on the points that raised an eyebrow. There is no doubt the car is stunning to behold, and will, hopefully, do well for Aston Martin. Would I buy one? Yes. But if it was my money, I'd want reassurances that my query areas were resolved first.
It begs the question, though, why would anyone buy a Vanquish now?
First, it's a stunning thing, and the team up at AM have done a great job on it. The 'shark' styling which we first saw on the DB10 carries through, and really works. One of the problems with many of the press photos is that they are all taken at about knee height. The majority of people will see it from much higher up, unless they happen to be tying their shoelace, and the proportions look much better in the flesh.
The lines are beautiful, and the black colour line on the roof doesn't particularly glare against the grey paint on the body. Brighter colours may be slightly more jarring, however.
Some have remarked on the funny angle the wing vent seems to make. I can confirm the inside of the cutout is curved, not straight, but it still doesn't look quite right. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the whole front wheel arch doesn't look like it transcribes an arc. The bit of body panel immediately below the vent juts out, giving the visual impression it sits forward. This looks incongruous, as does the bottom of the rear part of the wheel arch, which separates away from the line of the tyre. This is probably a function of the space needed to allow the front wheels to turn, but looks a little odd to my eyes. I have real concerns on this area - the whole thing is designed to chanel the air out of the wheel arch and engine bay and down the side of the car. When the bonnet is open, the top of the wheel arch is open, and there are three cutouts in the plastic at the leading edge of the vent. The bonnet is lined in a type of soundproofing fabric, and it doesn't look anywhere near robust enough to deal with the grit, stones, tar and all the other rubbish that will get thrown off the wheels. To be fair, the plastic the vents are made of looks every bit as tough as the wheel arch liner on a Range Rover, but the painted bit of wing immediately behind this is begging to be peppered. If you armourfend one bit of the car, I'd suggest this is the bit to do.
Whilst I'm talking about the airflow, the whole airblade(TM) also interesting in 'real world' applications. The air is channelled between the rear window and the c pillar, through the top of the boot and out of the gap in the boot lid. This tube can be seen when the boot is opened - there is a bit of mesh on the car side to stop larger objects going through, but this looks ripe to be filled up with leaves, snow or other rubbish as one drives down the road. If these intakes become blocked, then the airblade(TM) won't. So, what is the impact on the handling if the virtual spoiler becomes virtual nothing? Will you spin into the ditch? Or if there is little impact, why bother having it in the first place?
The boot opening is good, opening just above the number plate. The space is claimed to be some 30% bigger than the DB9, and looks capacious enough, although I'm not a golfist so can't make that seemingly vital 'golfbag' assessment. Back to the 'real world' concerns again, and I can see that an awful lot of shopping will get wet opening the boot. The gap between the bottom of the rear screen and the lip of the boot is minimal, and although there is an extra strip of rubber, it looks like an afterthought and as such will probably work as well as one. I'd also be worried about how resilient the seals between the carside and the bootside of the air vents will be. I can also see the vent space in the boot lid filling up with water / other crap and this being deposited into the boot when it's opened. That said, the geometry of the boot opening looks like it keeps the bootside vents over the boot gulley, but, much like on my Vantage, a bit of a slope or a breath of wind will move the torrent of rainwater to fill the boot up.
There are some nice little design circles in the material around the exhaust. Very pretty, but, for the many of us that like to lavish attention on our motors, will be a pain in the harris to clean.
The inside is beautiful. The leather and the design is spectacular, and I especially like the wood veneers in the door and the centre column. The black marble-effect one, for want of a better way of describing it, is stunning.
Whilst sat inside, the headroom is very good (I'm 6'2 and could get a fist above my head), and one seems to sit much lower in the car - the side sills are very deep. The oft-commented 'Bender's Face' on the centre console really isn't noticeable from the driver's seat, although it did make me smile as I looked forward through the rear window. The infotainment screen did not look like an afterthought or a stuck-on iPad. Whilst I don't know what the interface will look like or how busy it is likely to be, personally I'd like it to fold away. The rear seats are bigger, but still by no means a 4-seater. I think it would be a real challenge to get anyone in there that could be described as 'adult'.
I realise I sound rather negative, but I just wanted to focus on the points that raised an eyebrow. There is no doubt the car is stunning to behold, and will, hopefully, do well for Aston Martin. Would I buy one? Yes. But if it was my money, I'd want reassurances that my query areas were resolved first.
It begs the question, though, why would anyone buy a Vanquish now?
michael gould said:
quench said:
wokkadriver said:
It begs the question, though, why would anyone buy a Vanquish now?
I can think of two reasons immediately: because it isn't butt ugly (sorry, I think the DB11 is), and because it has a naturally aspirated engine.
ks ............it is beautiful and I have no doubt it will propel Aston to new success Looks will always be subjective and the engine debate will rage across the forums for ever. I believe it's a bit of a red herring, to be honest - times change. Early cars pootled along quite happily with 1 1/2 and 2 litre 4pot motors until moving on to straight 6s, V8s, V12s and now a turbo-charged motor. It's hardly new ground - the DB7 started life with a 3.2 straight 6 with a supercharger strapped to it, and the stout warhorse V550/V600 went into battle brandishing 2 superchargers. If we want to get super-geeky, the DB11 isn't the first to sport twin-turbos, either. That accolade (I think) fell to the Bulldog!
Jon39 said:
Jonnie, thank you, a good summary.
As you say, although you have raised the negatives, I think most of us do wonder about the theoretical / practical aspects of those features. The DB11 front wing vent design comes from the Vulcan, and although some of us just love the very long standing traditional vent design, perhaps it is time for a change.
The aerodynamic advantages of the new wing vent and the rear airflow system, have been heavily promoted in the marketing of the DB11. You are a Professional Aviator, so please talk us through the real world advantages of these aero systems. A wag has mentioned that a smoke generator in the Airblade (TM) ducting would be wonderful, perhaps it could be linked to the exhaust valves.
In comparison to the interiors of our cars, with the 'watchmakers' instruments, the DB11 does look much the same as many other high end cars of today. If that is what new buyers want though, then it has to be provided.
The most important aspect of the DB11 launch, is the bulging order book. I am told production capacity is full for a considerable time ahead. Very good news for AML.
My pleasure As you say, although you have raised the negatives, I think most of us do wonder about the theoretical / practical aspects of those features. The DB11 front wing vent design comes from the Vulcan, and although some of us just love the very long standing traditional vent design, perhaps it is time for a change.
The aerodynamic advantages of the new wing vent and the rear airflow system, have been heavily promoted in the marketing of the DB11. You are a Professional Aviator, so please talk us through the real world advantages of these aero systems. A wag has mentioned that a smoke generator in the Airblade (TM) ducting would be wonderful, perhaps it could be linked to the exhaust valves.
In comparison to the interiors of our cars, with the 'watchmakers' instruments, the DB11 does look much the same as many other high end cars of today. If that is what new buyers want though, then it has to be provided.
The most important aspect of the DB11 launch, is the bulging order book. I am told production capacity is full for a considerable time ahead. Very good news for AML.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 18th April 13:44
I can see the application of the aerodynamic widgetary, but, as with so many of these things, it will probably make very little difference in the real world and at real-world speeds; otherwise the roads would be full of cars that are forever flipping upside-down!
In summary, the splitter at the front must split the air, with some going through/under and the rest over. The air has further to go over the car, and creates a lower pressure. This is, basically, how a wing works.
Cars will always have to live with the fact that they generate lift as they go down the road - the trick is to minimise this as much as possible to keep the handling sweet and predictable and reduce drag to be more efficient. If the DB11 was shaped like a house brick it would still get off the line very quickly with its big engine and lots of power, but aesthetically it would be poor, fuel efficiency would be mortifying and the handling may become somewhat wayward, but these are only concerns as the speed increases. Most efficiencies are race-derived in the pursuit of speed, but have other advantages which can then be applied to improve life for the real world motorist.
The technology isn't new - aircraft used high pressure air from the engines to 'blow' flaps and ailerons in the 60s.
The advantages of a blown spoiler are that they weigh nothing and have no visible intrusion on the designer's lines. Disadvantages are that they are generally hard to adjust, are susceptible to blockage and you have nowhere to lay out your picnic at a race meeting.
So, to answer your question, unless you're toasting around the track or belting along in excess of say, 80 mph, then I don't think the aerodynamics are going to have a great deal of impact, save your bragging rights in the pub. As the speed increases, or the line between winning and losing draws down into the thousandths of a second, then they start to become increasingly important.
Bottom line though, as you rightly point out, the order book is bulging and that is good news.
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