The new Vantage?

[Calinours]

OK here we are. A brand new space for members to postulate about the imminent new car.

From what I’ve been able to gather, so far, it looks like at least some version will retain the AMG V8, but it may also be offered with a lower spec 6 as an all new entry level car.

Taking cues from DB12, there will be laser focus on the perceived failings of the previous effort. This means a new front end and a new dash/interior.

We also expect the V8 version of the new car to be significantly more powerful and expensive.

There are whispers of a new name ? over to the wise heads of the forum….

[Calinours]

A new car to be unveiled at Monterrey according to Autocar, they think it’s going to be the roofless version of the DB12, but it could be the not-Vantage..?

Apart from the chassis, engine, gearbox, brakes, most of the body and the retracting soft top, we hear it’s 80% new by a count of the changed component/part numbers.

I hear there are a great deal of parts in a dashboard…

[Calinours]

flow99 said:

Nbgring said:

A significant number of spy shots of the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage have been shot on the Nürburgring and published at youtube during the last two months.
I am quite convinced that the cars with the license plates KY23 MVH, KY23 MUA and KY23 MSV are the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage - the rear almost unchanged vs. the current Vantage and the front largely copied from the DB12. Tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 5S







You may check at CarSpyMedia - @carspymedia8960 - who published extensive material in premium quality.

Think if it looks like the spy shots with teh current style rear and side profile, much improved front with the grill lifted up from the splitter, and similar interior as the DB12, then will be fantastic.

Gents, it’s a very interesting suite of comments so far, with a very wide range of opinions. I concur with Minglar, let’s not get into deriding the looks of the outgoing product too much, like the DB11 it suffered mostly from somehow not being very photogenic, both somehow looked better in real life than a photo. Can anyone explain that??

The consensus does seem to be new front end and interior, the AMG lump with the wick turned up a bit, and a fair whack higher asking price. No doubt all sorts of other minor tweaks presented as ‘all new’ ie as amusingly pointed out by Jon, new suspension bushes. Such outrageous marketing-led claims by OEM are nothing new, like all the others AML have always done it. Stroll is just pushing the envelope a little more, that’s all. It’s a tough market. Can’t blame them. If anything AP and team should have shouted far more loudly about the technical achievements of the DB11 and 2018-on Vantage (the old ‘new’ Vantage). But he didn’t, and now most of those achievements (esp the DBX) are being ‘claimed’ as all new by a much more masterful media manipulator.

The ‘new’ car with a ‘prettier’ front and new dash should do OK notwithstanding unexpected external factors and events (ie the economic catastrophe of 2008 or the pandemic of 2020 which respectively, greatly contributed to blighting the plans of Dave Richards and AP)

Sorry for Speedraiser but as I wrote some months ago, the era of the AM engine in the accessible cars is gone. The only positive is that it looks like AM will continue to offer AP and AM’s wonderful twin turbo V12 (built in tiny quantities in UK, by Cosworth) in future limited edition, million dollar plus, ultra (can I still use that word?) high end specials. It will of course be rebranded as an all new engine, delivered of course by Mr Stroll.

On the new new Vantage or whatever it will be called, my only concern is on product crossover, always a bit of a challenge for AML as all the products crowd into that little ‘Aston niche’ between Ferrari et al on the one side and Bentley et al on the other.

If the DB12 is as quick and sharp as the journos are saying it is, and is V8 powered and ticks so many more of the sports boxes, it leaves less space for the new new Vantage. How can AM differentiate the new car? Same engine, similar price it looks like, same interior. It’s going to have to have less power than DB12 so is likely going to be little quicker or ‘sportier’ on track?

It’s why I suggest that lightness and a slightly cheaper option with a 6-cyl engine might be the way to do it.

Notwithstanding development costs, were it I deciding,
the new new Vantage would be launched with a six, the same power but considerably lighter than the previous V8 engined car, pitched more at the well heeled ex Lotus owner, and a later S or RS super hot version coming along a bit later with the same V8 as the DB12. A similar strategy to what was successful in 2004 to 2009.

Edited by Calinours on Friday 11th August 10:38

[Calinours]

GreasyHands said:

Simpo Two said:

Jon39 said:

The puzzle to those of us who attempt to analyse Company progress, is why have the sales of the 2017 onward Vantage, been considerably fewer than the equivalent stages of the 2005 to 2018 model ?

Price?


Agreed the answers are complex and, well, not even relevant to my ownership experience. But maybe one reason is people saw that the much loved "old Vantage" (soon to be the "old, old Vantage" and and DB9) depreciated like my used underwear when Porsche and Ferrari hold their values better. I'm just throwing that out there, i.e. you might as well be asking why do the "pinnacle" ( at least to some around here) Aston generate have so little interest as 2nd hand cars. ( This is obvious as proven by the depreciation...using Pistonheads logic)

I could go on that Ferrari has a seven year warranty, maybe that helps resale...which helps new sales. I could come up with probably half a dozen speculative reasons but I guess I don't hang out on car forums to discuss value. I'm more into DIY and mods, and some funny stuff like Stroll's suits.

I originally came here a couple years ago because I got sidetracked from the Triumph section. Back then I had to read so much whining from previous generation Aston owners it was a bit hard to stomach. ( par for the course among car enthusiasts). Still seems to be happening quite a bit around here. People have trouble moving on. It's more group therapy and confirmation bias around here than car enthusiasm.

Anyway, I've discovered other places to talk about Astons where people seem a bit more balanced, at least until the next generation arrives, LOL. I know i'm barking up the wrong tree here. Probably just a last rant before I find another place to get my entertainment.

Edited by GreasyHands on Friday 11th August 20:20

Which place is better than this to discuss Astons?

I’ve had a look at most and don’t find any as good as PH. Also I don’t find that there is too much slating of the AP stuff and I have a DB11.

In fact I find it very balanced, with reasonable numbers of folks with DBX as well as the Newport Pagnell stuff. Sure most on here are AML fans due to the Bez era cars, given how successful they were, how well received and, critically they appeared in the middle what we all might end up remembering as a ‘golden era’ not just for AM, but for all ICE engined cars, roughly 1995 to 2015.

You bought your AP car because you liked it, as did I. I’m not bothered at all by what others think, and try to correct what I perceive to be any misconceptions. I’ve done an awful lot of defending of the DB11 and the AML AE31 V12 engine in particular. IMHO, it will soon only be found in stuff costing a million, so I’m absolutely hanging on to mine

Defend your choice to the hilt, you will only find a lot of agreement and only friendly banter on the slightly divisive looks. I suspect that very few will ever say it isn’t a much better car, despite the differing opinions of the dash and front end. Remember that there were always loads who criticised the older cars, the Russian doll thing you mention, the lack of oomph from the V8, the crappy sportshift, the dodgy finish and electrics, the ancient infotainment, the cringeworthy ‘power beauty soul’ and the silly, designed-to-break ‘emotion control unit’ that would cost a grand to replace. All valid criticisms but none stop me loving my 2011 car.

It’s great you are into DIY and modifications your ‘new’ Vantage, my perception has been that unlike the whiners on here with their previous gen n/a stuff, very few of the owners of the AP stuff do much in that respect. It seems that there’s little point as it’s just so good/quick from the factory. Now almost 6 years after launch and there seems little on offer from specialists beyond a reflash to up the boost. I’m sure loads would be interested to understand what have you done to it?

[Calinours]

Jon39 said:

Calinours said:

It’s why I suggest that lightness and a slightly cheaper option with a 6-cyl engine might be the way to do it.

The 4 litre V8 engine has a stated dry weight of 461 Pounds.




I cannot find a weight figure for the 3 litre In-line Six, but as well as being a longer engine, I would not think it would be much lighter.



For most installations, it has a 48 volt mild hybrid electric motor/generator (no drive belts, or certain anciliaries) so plus and minus weight adjustments there.

All else equal, a six will be lighter than an 8 cylinders engine, especially a V8. Packaging, however (fitting it in) is a whole other matter. For the DBX, no problem, for the GT/sports cars, a problem. Previous solutions have been to angle inline motors where vertical space is at a premium. A V6 is a solution, but AFAIK AMG don’t produce a V6. Maybe the ‘poverty spec’ version of the new car might come with the AMG 4-pot ?? In Hybridised form it is now pushing out the same power as the DB12’s AMG V8…. 670hp!

This is likely pie in sky for AML who just don’t have the resources for major engineering projects like that, all we can realistically hope for right now with the ‘normal’ cars are facelifts and new interiors.

Edited by Calinours on Saturday 12th August 12:27

[Calinours]

Kerniki said:

I’d say he has a point, the Aston devotees on here are not that open minded to criticism or accepting to Aston having any faults, many moved from TVR to aston and the TVR bunch sort of had the same issue, I could understand it around TVR more as they were price lead, Aston are not and they’re competitors are better in almost every area, unless you want to role play as bond

Maybe, but many more inc myself arrived via 911’s and the half that didn’t go back to Porkers or on to Bentleys (perhaps the more logical progression with age ) are all too aware of the shortfalls and deficiencies of the cars. The paint issues, dodgy electrics, lack of power of the early V8s, running costs and all sorts of other ‘character traits’ are discussed endlessly, as is the ‘mongrel’ nature of the Ford/PAG developed cars. Some are making an art form of the possibilities that arise from using otherwise identical Jag/Ford/Volvo bits or direct OEM supply of everything from sensors to brakes…

Theres little dissent from anywhere in this forum to the fact that the ‘new’ Vantage is a far better, more resolved and quicker car. It also seems that the new version of the car, as with the DB12 is going to address the ‘whines’ head on.

When it gets launched I suspect that the only remaining gripes on PH are going to be the usual suspects (speedraiser and to a lesser degree myself) continuing to lament the death of the in house engine. Allow us our grumbles, for we are old men

Edited by Calinours on Saturday 12th August 12:45

[Calinours]

Jon39 said:

Reynardff1600 said:

The problem I have, is the 2005 to 2018 Vantage looks so good, I am not sure I would buy a new one.
To me a classic look will always win out.

It is possible (or possibly not), that many/some/a few/none, might (or might not), share your opinion.
Shhhh. We are only allowed to whisper opinions here.

I can remember in about 2012, someone said, "I wouldn't want to have the job of designing a successor car for this one".
Anyway, MR remembered the Vulcan and said to AP, "Leave it to me Sir. Your mother will not have any more model confusion after I have finished".
He was quite right. We never heard anything at all from AP's mother after that.

( I am leaving the 'punch line' to others. )

funny things, pendulums. From the early 2010s, many of the complaints were “outdated tech, and they are all a bit samey, variations on a theme, all use the same (largely V12) engine, no product differentiation”…

So along came AP’s mum.

Now, after it turns out that AP’s mum turned out not be be the car design guru that AP thought, it looks like we are coming full circle.. back to the future!

[Calinours]

I think the old new Vantage was launched in late 2017, so being a pedant it’s 6 years

Still seems like yesterday to me though. I remember really looking forward to that car. Like many, I’d been seduced by the beautiful but flawed previous generation car, had made a few quid in the meantime and had the readies to place an order.

Edited by Calinours on Thursday 31st August 10:58

[Calinours]

Jon, not for the 1st time I am duty bound to question your seriously dodgy arithmetic….

I guess while we wait for the unveil we have nothing better to do than rehash all that’s been said 1000 times about Marek and Max’s finest. It doesn’t add value. Lots of people did buy them (sorry were given them).

Shame, from all I understand it’s actually a really great car. Palmer & co did nail the engineering. Also it looks very dramatic in the “metal”. It really is/was a stunning if (perhaps) not beautiful car.

The old new Vantage just didn’t/doesn’t photograph at all well, much worse even than DB11. I still haven’t had anyone explain why that is?

[Calinours]

Yes, new new Vantage or ex-Vantage if some of the rumours are correct. Not old new Vantage.

The drift is not surprising, not much is leaking out to the world on the plans for the facelift, apart from that which appears to have already been guessed - it looks like it is still going to feature the AMG V8 and get a different front end and dash/infotainment a la DB12.

Question is, will we and more importantly prospective buyers be able to sufficiently differentiate the driving experience between the ‘Super GT’ DB12 with its new dashboard, evolved front end, e-diff, hopped up AMG V8 and old new Vantage chassis forward of the A-pillar and the new new ‘Super Sports’ (?) Vantage with its new dashboard, evolved front end, e-diff, hopped up AMG V8 and (presumably..) old new Vantage chassis forward of the A-pillar….

I hope so, and that loads of the fresh money around the world buys into the hype with aplomb and the company makes a pile of cash. The UK market is going to be tough, anyone seen the PCP interest rates these days……

[Calinours]

Jon39 said:

cb804 said:

Have you noticed ?

Imagine the conversation at Marek Reichmann's team briefing.

"I have had another one of my brilliant ideas.
We can fit a funny wiper mechanism, which hopefully will not tangle the wiper blades, but it will save us having different sets of windscreen wipers, for right hand and left hand drive cars. I can tell by your reaction, that you are all astounded by my brilliance."

It’s not new Jon. Remember these are just facelifted cars.

[Calinours]

RichB said:

Calinours said:

It’s not new Jon. Remember these are just facelifted cars.

Is it known if it will have the DB12 style dashboard ?

If I were a betting man I’d say that was odds on.

[Calinours]

Launch date is 12th Feb, alongside the new F1 car and ‘something else’.

[Calinours]

Minglar said:

A bunch of his usual accurate, well reasoned and balanced stuff…

I completely agree. One mystery has to be how the stylists who were primarily responsible (for turning, at a stroke, one of the most elegant, desirable and beautiful sports cars that Aston or indeed anyone had ever made into something that they clearly couldn’t even sell when new) continue to survive. Step forward Reichmann and Nurnburgler, the latter having been let go then actually rehired by his partner in crime.

It’s got to be incredibly rare for unsuccessful stylists of cars (of fully re-engineered, new engined, clean sheet next generation Aston Martins, no less) where the outcome was subsequently so consequential for the company to be given the chance to try to correct their own design faux pas by the new management. All I can imagine is that LS must have blamed the Merc infotainment far more than the divisive new styling of AP’s ‘2nd century’ cars, in particular that of the (old) new Vantage of course.

I guess the dynamic duo can point to the fact that some other stylistic efforts were better, Reichmanns take on the Vanquish was an undeniable stunner, as was the DBS Superleggerra. Even the DB11 was actually very good, if not to everyone’s taste.

I’m a huge fan of AM stuff in general but in particular the shape of the VH Vantage. I have never in my life wanted any car more than I wanted one of those from the first time I saw one in 2005. Whenever I saw one I would marvel at how gorgeous it was, inside and out. To me that gen Vantage is always going to be right up there among the most beautiful cars ever made. Few cars are just perfect from every angle, not even DB9. These are the kinds of emotions that the more sporty, heart over head choice Vantage has to inspire to be able to sell.

I’ve become extremely hopeful for the new car. I always thought the rear of the new car was very good (the likely reason the rear light bar, lights on, under a cover was used as the teaser back in 2017/8). The two problems were squarely the front end and the interior. Together with the outsourced engine and no manual option (even though no one bought them anymore), all at the same time, it was then perhaps too much, especially for the more traditional Vantage customer, whoever that was supposed to be. Andy may have wanted younger folks, but I’d consider that most younger folk love elegance, beauty and style (or power, beauty and soul ) just as much as the crusties…

I’m assuming the exact same laser focus on these two areas as demonstrated on the DB12, together with of course more power, sharper handling and all those lovely detail changes like the strakes, mirrors, keys etc. Most have now got used to the excellent and likely unbeatable AMG engine so that’s no longer an issue for 99% of new buyers. I really think that the frontal treatment of DB12, or something similar could really work on the Vantage, where that huge and featureless bonnet never did look right on the Vantage in the way that it somehow did on DB11. I guess the DB11 retained the bonnet vents, which did make a huge difference.

I consider that given how AM have demonstrated with DB12 a clear willingness to very sharply focus on the bits that their customers say need sorting, then the new Vantage is probably going to be an exceptionally lovely thing as well as an incredibly sharp tool.

The great news for those beleaguered fans (who aren’t yet owners) of the (old) new Vantage is that values of those cars are likely to take a real tumble once the new car is on the roads, so there are likely to be some absolute bargains out there (especially given the current car market) for those who are able to see past what most of the rest of us see.

Remember that from a build quality, engineering, dynamic, power and robustness perspective they did mostly get it very right, the old new Vantage was in pretty much all measurable respects a huge leap forward over the older and always slightly asthmatic naturally aspirated car (V12V excepted of course).

Fact is, the (old) new Vantage will remain, like DB11, a very, very good car and will be a great value future choice.

Edited by Calinours on Friday 2nd February 10:36

[Calinours]

It’s going to be 665PS. Should be plenty quick enough!

Other key numbers identical to DB12. 202mph, 3.4 0-60. I’d have thought with launch control, the new michelins, a significant weight saving over the DB12 and all that power it should accelerate to 60 in under 3 sec? It seems not.

Cost? Wait for it…. GBP 200k with a decent spec.

Edited by Calinours on Saturday 3rd February 10:22

[Calinours]

franki68 said:

Calinours said:

It’s going to be 665PS. Should be plenty quick enough!

Other key numbers identical to DB12. 202mph, 3.4 0-60. I’d have thought with launch control, the new michelins, a significant weight saving over the DB12 and all that power it should accelerate to 60 in under 3 sec? It seems not.

Cost? Wait for it…. GBP 200k with a decent spec.

Edited by Calinours on Saturday 3rd February 10:22

200k ?

Yep. This is reasonably specced though. I don’t know the base price but i’d guess maybe 165k

[Calinours]

Nbgring said:

For a time under 3 s you need way more than 800 PS, plus a 150 kg weight reduction, plus much more weight shifted towards the rear - or in other words a Ferrari 296GTB. Or 4-wheel-drive.

Point taken. I was going to mention 911 turbo then remembered it’s 4WD. Then that McLarens manage it with less power but then remembered they have way less weight, a way better chassis and the engine in the back over the driven wheels.

[Calinours]

BMWMB said:

or posted, some highly stylised but very vague images.

I can’t tell much from these. Never mind, only a few days to go….

[Calinours]

maybe this is a little better…..



Seems like it’s going to be a hard pick between DB12 and Vantage. Andy’s mum will not be happy

[Calinours]

AstonV said:

Calinours said:

maybe this is a little better…..



Seems like it’s going to be a hard pick between DB12 and Vantage. Andy’s mum will not be happy

Wonder what Andy said to her when he was shown the door? Thanks mother?

Probably

I imagine her replying, shut it chubster, and I told you to get rid of that numpty Reichmann and his hapless Professor Wallofski sidekick years ago..