E63 650i experience and buying advice sought!
Discussion
Evening all,
I'd like to lean on your collective experience of early 650is. I'm seriously considering buying one to replace my E46 328i, but it's a big jump in the type of car, the amount it's worth, and the amount it's capable of bending me over for! I'm spending £7-9k and there is some choice at this money. Mileage doesn't worry me too much (unless it should on these?), and ideally I want a pre-March 06 car.
I've been able to find out a decent amount of information about the spec available, and some potential issues - oil leaks, iDrive etc - but with them being quite a rare car, real buying advice is proving hard to come by. I went to look at a nice, low-mileage 645ci this afternoon to give myself a baseline to work from. Ideally I'd like a 650i, but realistically 10% capacity/power/torque is a fair tradeoff for an otherwise perfect car, so that's not a must. My impressions:
I'd love to hear from owners, tell me about your cars and what issues you've had, what you'd look at if buying another and things like that. I seem to have a decent picture of servicing costs, and know to check the iDrive for mileage remaining to key items, but it's the unexpected stuff I'm interested to hear more about. A quick word on your typical driving patterns and your fuel economy would be interesting too - I'm prepared for 20mpg, don't worry, but more would be nice
Anything you can share much appreciated, or perhaps you're thinking about selling yours.. On a related note, if anyone wants to buy my E46 328i, do get in touch.
I'd like to lean on your collective experience of early 650is. I'm seriously considering buying one to replace my E46 328i, but it's a big jump in the type of car, the amount it's worth, and the amount it's capable of bending me over for! I'm spending £7-9k and there is some choice at this money. Mileage doesn't worry me too much (unless it should on these?), and ideally I want a pre-March 06 car.
I've been able to find out a decent amount of information about the spec available, and some potential issues - oil leaks, iDrive etc - but with them being quite a rare car, real buying advice is proving hard to come by. I went to look at a nice, low-mileage 645ci this afternoon to give myself a baseline to work from. Ideally I'd like a 650i, but realistically 10% capacity/power/torque is a fair tradeoff for an otherwise perfect car, so that's not a must. My impressions:
- Doesn't feel anywhere near as big as I expected, which is good
- The engine is bloody lovely. Flexible, sounds great without being intrusive, ample power in this application. Idles very low and very smoothly. Like it a lot.
- Gearbox is better than I expected, though bit of a delay in manual shifts. Does respond well to being in Sport mode. Doesn't downshift on the overrun or at light throttle very smoothly. Decisions in normal auto mode pretty good.
- Ride actually very good considering 19" RFTs, would be great on 18s with sensible tyres. Well damped, very little body roll but absorbs small imperfections well.
- Well-refined in most NVH areas, wind noise especially good, but road noise poor - again, tyres, Bridgestones are bad, RFTs are worse, 275 section rears finishes it off! Again, sure it'd be fine on conventional tyres.
I'd love to hear from owners, tell me about your cars and what issues you've had, what you'd look at if buying another and things like that. I seem to have a decent picture of servicing costs, and know to check the iDrive for mileage remaining to key items, but it's the unexpected stuff I'm interested to hear more about. A quick word on your typical driving patterns and your fuel economy would be interesting too - I'm prepared for 20mpg, don't worry, but more would be nice
Anything you can share much appreciated, or perhaps you're thinking about selling yours.. On a related note, if anyone wants to buy my E46 328i, do get in touch.
Edited by McSam on Friday 20th November 19:20
Thanks for the reply. I had heard hints about the 4.8 being a more efficient engine, but hard info seems difficult to come by and I haven't heard from anyone who's owned both - fuel economy is so variable with a car like this, it's hard to be sure! Still, all the more reason to want one over a 4.4, and I'd be lying if I didn't say the draw of it being the fastest non-M BMW is significant too.
Have you looked at a few cars? How much of an impact does mileage have on them? I'm no stranger to it, my current cars are on 161k and 180k, but a 6er is a different ownership proposition so I'm limiting my search to around 120k. Prices seem very low at the moment - there are quite a few 650is to choose from under £9k and within that mileage. I hope nobody goes and buys it after I post, but I really like this 650i, the only thing it lacks is the glass roof and the mileage is at the limit of what I want to do.
In the 645ci corner, you get this for very similar money but 40k lighter off.
The trouble seems to be that if you spend more, you just get newer, not lower mileage - that doesn't help, as while the tax isn't hardly going to be the biggest running cost, I don't much fancy deliberately choosing a car that's over £200pa worse off just for being six months newer.
Have you looked at a few cars? How much of an impact does mileage have on them? I'm no stranger to it, my current cars are on 161k and 180k, but a 6er is a different ownership proposition so I'm limiting my search to around 120k. Prices seem very low at the moment - there are quite a few 650is to choose from under £9k and within that mileage. I hope nobody goes and buys it after I post, but I really like this 650i, the only thing it lacks is the glass roof and the mileage is at the limit of what I want to do.
In the 645ci corner, you get this for very similar money but 40k lighter off.
The trouble seems to be that if you spend more, you just get newer, not lower mileage - that doesn't help, as while the tax isn't hardly going to be the biggest running cost, I don't much fancy deliberately choosing a car that's over £200pa worse off just for being six months newer.
Some really good info there Theophany, thank you - I had read something about the valve stem seals, it seemed quite rare, but what you're saying suggests it might affect quite a few cars?
I'm certainly planning on either tan interior or the glass roof, preferably both, I like airy interiors and it's already going to be lower and more enclosed than my E46 (which is tan with sunroof!). There are quite a few 650is that fit in the £290 tax bracket, about a year's worth of production so I'm aiming for one of those. Good to hear first-hand about improvements without RFTs, too. I don't believe there's anywhere to store a spare on these, though? I don't consider having one actually in the boot space as a reasonable option.
I'm certainly planning on either tan interior or the glass roof, preferably both, I like airy interiors and it's already going to be lower and more enclosed than my E46 (which is tan with sunroof!). There are quite a few 650is that fit in the £290 tax bracket, about a year's worth of production so I'm aiming for one of those. Good to hear first-hand about improvements without RFTs, too. I don't believe there's anywhere to store a spare on these, though? I don't consider having one actually in the boot space as a reasonable option.
That's what I was thinking about the valve stem seals, really, it's hard to tell how many cars it really afflicts just by forum searches - thanks for the advice on checking for potential trouble though, very useful. Seems what I'd read about the spare wheel is correct, I think you're right, carry tyre foam for mild incidents and have breakdown cover for bigger ones. I might buy a spare full-size wheel and keep that at home for convenience too - I'm used to having loads, as my track day car is the same fitment and tyre size as my road car, but they won't work on a 6er!
My biggest problem so far is knowing how to even find all of the options, there are so many! Best bet seems to be feeding the chassis number into the online build checker and working from that. How does one test the adaptive headlights? Do they still move when applying lock while the car is stationary?
Fuel-wise, I only do around 8000 miles a year so if I can average 20mpg then I'm not bothered. It'd be nice if it'll do 30ish at an 80mph cruise, especially as I do a 420-mile run up to Scotland once a year and would consider it a failing if it wasn't possible on one tank! As for tyres, obviously it depends on the compound but maybe 8k from rears in normal use, bit more from fronts? I would hope to run the 18s for cost and ride quality anyway, so long as there's no issue retrofitting these to a Sport that came with 19s.
My biggest problem so far is knowing how to even find all of the options, there are so many! Best bet seems to be feeding the chassis number into the online build checker and working from that. How does one test the adaptive headlights? Do they still move when applying lock while the car is stationary?
Fuel-wise, I only do around 8000 miles a year so if I can average 20mpg then I'm not bothered. It'd be nice if it'll do 30ish at an 80mph cruise, especially as I do a 420-mile run up to Scotland once a year and would consider it a failing if it wasn't possible on one tank! As for tyres, obviously it depends on the compound but maybe 8k from rears in normal use, bit more from fronts? I would hope to run the 18s for cost and ride quality anyway, so long as there's no issue retrofitting these to a Sport that came with 19s.
Ah, thanks philmots. Was hoping there was a way to check them without driving the car at night, as I'm obviously hoping to do viewings in the daytime, but if any faults usually show up then it should be OK. How have you found the ownership experience with your 550i? Am I about right on fuel/tyre consumption mentioned above? Do you get yours serviced at BMW, specialist, DIY?
I'm wondering what the impact of DIY servicing would be on residuals. Most of the cars for sale seem to be very much dealer-kept, and only a tiny proportion are being sold privately. I suppose if I'm keeping it for the foreseeable future it won't matter quite so much, but otherwise I'm curious how an "enthusaist owned and maintained" car would stack up against one with dealer/specialist history.
I'm wondering what the impact of DIY servicing would be on residuals. Most of the cars for sale seem to be very much dealer-kept, and only a tiny proportion are being sold privately. I suppose if I'm keeping it for the foreseeable future it won't matter quite so much, but otherwise I'm curious how an "enthusaist owned and maintained" car would stack up against one with dealer/specialist history.
Theophany said:
I did a run up to Edinburgh from central London a few weeks ago. On a full tank I got to the Abingdon junction of the A74 and refuelled as I had about a 20 mile range left. That being said, a long empty stretch of the M6 through Cumbria didn't help my economy on that particular run... 
Heh, yes, that section does flow rather nicely at high speed Thanks Phil, more valuable info, much appreciated! I did notice how cheap Pilot SuperSports are in the 18" size, they would be great on it.
As a car I was quite keen on has unfortunately sold before I could get down to view it, I'm waiting for another ideal one to come up.. it's amazing how quickly you can get really picky on spec!
As a car I was quite keen on has unfortunately sold before I could get down to view it, I'm waiting for another ideal one to come up.. it's amazing how quickly you can get really picky on spec!
Merry Christmas, everyone!
I hate it when a thread like this disappears without a conclusion, so here's mine a 2004 645Ci, picked it up two days ago and I'm already in love. Thank you very much indeed for your collective experience, it was a great help in knowing what to look out for and I think - hope! - I've ended up with the right car. After a viewing and near commitment on a 650i that turned out to be a complete nightmare, I realised that a properly nice one would be both rare and probably out of my budget, so I've plumped for a 645Ci in a colour combination and spec that I really like instead. Readers' Cars thread to follow!
Thanks once again for all your input, and have a V8 Christmas!
I hate it when a thread like this disappears without a conclusion, so here's mine
a 2004 645Ci, picked it up two days ago and I'm already in love. Thank you very much indeed for your collective experience, it was a great help in knowing what to look out for and I think - hope! - I've ended up with the right car. After a viewing and near commitment on a 650i that turned out to be a complete nightmare, I realised that a properly nice one would be both rare and probably out of my budget, so I've plumped for a 645Ci in a colour combination and spec that I really like instead. Readers' Cars thread to follow!Thanks once again for all your input, and have a V8 Christmas!
Thanks all, great to hear kind words about the car 
there's a bit of a to do list but it still feels fantastic, I'm thoroughly enjoying it and not quite used to seeing it on the drive yet!
there's a bit of a to do list but it still feels fantastic, I'm thoroughly enjoying it and not quite used to seeing it on the drive yet!gf15 said:
Best photo I have seen of the difference a glass roof makes on the interior.
It turns out rear passengers are getting an even better view!Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff