F31 335d XDrive Handling
Discussion
A owner of a F31 335d MSport with non-adaptive suspension & 19" wheels, previously owned 535d, X540d. Completed a few thousand miles now. It's a fast , but flawed car. Point a shoot in a straight line, very impressive , grip is amazing, but set it up a few bends and the body control is poor. It appears to me that the car is over sprung , particularly in the rear and under damped both ends. It crashes over pot holes, but can't control the body at high speed. Worst of both worlds. First BMW I've been disappointed with the handling, doesn't deserve an M badge.
I expect it could be a great car with a re-map and chassis sorted, but I wouldn't remap the car without updating the suspension.
There doesn't seem to be many options on the upgrade route:
ASC do springs or coil overs, KW do coil over, and Birds do a B3X fixed rate kit of Billies and matched springs (a lot softer on the rear).
Does anyone have any experience of tuning the chassis on the car please?
I expect it could be a great car with a re-map and chassis sorted, but I wouldn't remap the car without updating the suspension.
There doesn't seem to be many options on the upgrade route:
ASC do springs or coil overs, KW do coil over, and Birds do a B3X fixed rate kit of Billies and matched springs (a lot softer on the rear).
Does anyone have any experience of tuning the chassis on the car please?
Little concerned regarding comments on Birds. They were my preferred choice. I feel the job is bigger than just springs, but don't want to go to the expense of ACS coil overs. Birds are some distance from my location so I was intending on getting a trusted local BMW indy garage to fit the parts. All parts have 3 years warranty and they insure anything that BMW will not. Do you think it's safer to get Birds to fit the kit?
JNW1 said:
Swapped Bridgestone run-flats for conventional Goodyear AS2's on my F31 335d; they improved the ride slightly but the main difference has been a significant reduction in road noise. I don't dispute that Pilot Super Sports are very good tyres but they were the best part of 30% more expensive for 18" wheels and, having experienced AS2's on both an E92 335i and an E91 335d, I had no hesitation in fitting them again!
I've just scrapped a front tyre from a pot hole. So decided to moved away from Bridgestone S001 to Contisport 6 in non-run flat. Getting two fronts fitted today. Planning using the other Bridgestone front tyre as spare wheel.JNW1 said:
wakaday said:
JNW1 said:
I've just scrapped a front tyre from a pot hole. So decided to moved away from Bridgestone S001 to Contisport 6 in non-run flat. Getting two fronts fitted today. Planning using the other Bridgestone front tyre as spare wheel.
Are you changing all four tyres or just the fronts? My hand was forced by a puncture to one of the fronts and I decided to bite the bullet and change all four even though the rears had over 4mm of tread left; didn't fancy mixing conventional tyres on the front with run-flats on the rear but that could just have been me being over cautious!Totally agree with you guys. It's not best practice, and I certainly wouldn't mix on an axle , but the ContiSport 6 in rear size isn't available until about June. Really want a matching set. Incidentally, covered about 100 miles, some fast road not noticed any issues, just the normal excessive body roll.
Recently got the Birds B3X suspension fitted to my F31 335d. Had an issue with the rear ride height sitting lower than expected, but Birds have sorted this issue with a custom adaptor. Really, very impressed with the kit. The car fast, and fluid, wet or dry with improved ride quality and major improvement in handling. Don’t see any point in comfort or sport mode, this kit does all. Traction control starts to work harder, weight transfer improved on acceleration, and tyres pushed harder. I’m a fussy customer, but really can’t fault it. Not cheap, but you’re paying for custom b8 monotubes and springs and the R&D to finalise the spec. The car is finally fun, just can’t understand why BMW got the standard car so wrong.
I've previously owned 2 x 535d Msports, 530d SE, X5 40d Msport. This car has the same suspension as an SE and is the worst handling BM I've owned. For a car that hits sub 5 sec to 60 , the handling doesn't match the performance. It came with the big brakes and massive grip, ultra low profiles , but the total car just didn't add up. If I had test driven the factory car for say 1000 miles I probably wouldn't have brought it. Having said that, now sorted with suspension that handles with improved ride, and a remap, it's a very fast point to point car, that could match an M3 in the dry, and leave for dead in the wet. Its looks conservative , the family fit in, the ride doesn't make the kids sick and it hit 40+ mpg on a run. I'm happy with that.
In brief, and I benchmark may cars in my day job, my opinion is that BMW could have developed a better handling car, better primary and secondary ride, which would have been in line with their previous SE & MSport cars chassis achievements, and ultimately made a more balanced car. It's odd to me how Birds with a tiny R&D budget compared to BMW can deliver a solution which is better on the on a track or going to the shops. No need for adaptive dampers, but off course BMW like to sell though as an expensive option.
On drivetrain, I've had 2 RWD 535ds, and they simply can't put the power down in the wet. XDrive is the way to go, total grip.
On drivetrain, I've had 2 RWD 535ds, and they simply can't put the power down in the wet. XDrive is the way to go, total grip.
Current Xdrives are poor on rough surface because underdamped and rear over sprung. Just not set up for UK tarmac. Great for Autobahn. But why is 4WD dull in a sports car? Been very successful in Audi RS, Impreza, Evos, Ford RS .....BMW have some big M badged 4WD saloons, M550xd , M135xi, Alpina D3 Xdrive. RWD is great until the surface is wet. I'm sure BMW will get better at future Xdrive saloons products.
ratty6464 said:
Honestly though, the suspension on the 435d is pretty rubbish as standard. I've never felt the need to modify one of the other 3 BMWs i've had, but this one manages to fidget and wallow, squirm under braking and corkscrew under acceleration. I'm not expecting sports car levels of handling but they could have done a lot better. it smacks of a lack of proper development. It's ok if you cruise about, although it does bounce along bit. When pushed it falls apart.
for a £45k+ car i think it's perfectly reasonable to expect better, especially when BMW have pedigree of making some decent handling "non-M" cars - 330ci anyone?
Spot on comment, and that's where my post started. for a £45k+ car i think it's perfectly reasonable to expect better, especially when BMW have pedigree of making some decent handling "non-M" cars - 330ci anyone?
Osinjak said:
I was going to reply to this as my dog sits quite happily in the back of my unmodified 335d Touring without vomiting everywhere but then I realised that the post makes no sense whatsoever so I won't bother.
Why did you reply then?Point is not all tourer owners are dog people and bmw understand this too.
My standard 335d make my kids feel sick, but when modified with b3x is fine.
Welshbeef said:
wakaday said:
Why did you reply then?
Point is not all tourer owners are dog people and bmw understand this too.
My standard 335d make my kids feel sick, but when modified with b3x is fine.
Are you being serious?Point is not all tourer owners are dog people and bmw understand this too.
My standard 335d make my kids feel sick, but when modified with b3x is fine.
With standard suspension your children would be sick in the car often but with the modification not sick ever?
Or ... Is it figurative ?
Fixed rate dampers from factory. Now set up has lower spring rate on rear and non linear damper rate. Standard car felt like ice truckers in rear. Kids prefer modified car. I originally thought you had to make a car bone hard to handle, but you can have handling and respectable ride too. The front spring are about 15% higher rate
Osinjak said:
wakaday said:
Osinjak said:
I was going to reply to this as my dog sits quite happily in the back of my unmodified 335d Touring without vomiting everywhere but then I realised that the post makes no sense whatsoever so I won't bother.
Why did you reply then?Point is not all tourer owners are dog people and bmw understand this too.
My standard 335d make my kids feel sick, but when modified with b3x is fine.
Osinjak said:
wakaday said:
You were right first time. You shouldn't have bothered
Ooh, did somebody go out and buy a big boy's spine? Try posting like a coherent adult instead of a drooling infant and you might get a sensible reply. Until then, let the grown ups have a proper conversation. Osinjak said:
aeropilot said:
wakaday said:
RWD is great until the surface is wet.
Never had a problem in the wet in a 300+hp rwd BMW......but then I was taught to always drive appropriate to the road conditions at the time.ds666 said:
I did about 450 miles over the weekend and my dog has confirmed that the ride is acceptable ( he did mutter something about run flats ) . He wasn't sick .
He says anyone who wants to drive their 335d like it was a proper M car needs to buy one of those and stop moaning .
Woof
You must drive very carefully. That i3 is definitely the car for you. He says anyone who wants to drive their 335d like it was a proper M car needs to buy one of those and stop moaning .
Woof
( around 500bhp/ton ) Woof Woof Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff