Discussion
Well, I just returned from a 12 day roadtrip with the M7RRs mounted to my K1300S. I rode solo, empty panniers, and with the 50L Motorrad duffle on the back filled with personal belongings for the 12 day road trip.
Let me start by saying that the M7RRs are BEAUTIFUL tyres. Bump absorbtion is excellent - better than any other tyre I've tried before. They role and transition with consistency and at a perfect 'medium' rate: ie, quicker than Dunlops but slower than Michelin PP3s (note, PP3 vs PR3). In short, very similar to the Pirelli Rosso Corsa which remains IMHO one of the finest fast road/track tyres.
In the dry, M7RR grip is never lacking at pace. Abundant feel edge to edge! I tested these at 35C air temp on hot Pyrenean asphalt, and in the Austrian Alps up the Grossglockner where snow was falling. In the wet, there is more chemical grip than the vaunted PR3s. They were fantastic in damp conditions where traction and grip remained superb through tree lined high speed sweepers where the tarmac was not always dry. And they were ultra stable too - thankfully with none of the squirming of PR3s where the tread blocks move. In the pouring wet where water was still standing, the M7RRs showed some nervousness at speed - the Z8s and PR3s definitely clear more standing water.
BUT after just 2800 miles, the M7RRs are worn down to the wear bars. After 2200 miles (with about 1.5mm to the wear bars), there was a noticeable drop off in performance. Grip fell off significantly, and the carcass felt thin with some rear carcass deflection under high acceleration or tramlining when following crowned roads. They have worn very evenly with no cupping or flat spots, and I would recommend them as a fast road tyre. Just don't expect the mileage.
After 2800 miles, fairly evenly worn to the wear bars, although there is slightly more tread left on the sides (normal). No squaring. Time to change!
Let me start by saying that the M7RRs are BEAUTIFUL tyres. Bump absorbtion is excellent - better than any other tyre I've tried before. They role and transition with consistency and at a perfect 'medium' rate: ie, quicker than Dunlops but slower than Michelin PP3s (note, PP3 vs PR3). In short, very similar to the Pirelli Rosso Corsa which remains IMHO one of the finest fast road/track tyres.
In the dry, M7RR grip is never lacking at pace. Abundant feel edge to edge! I tested these at 35C air temp on hot Pyrenean asphalt, and in the Austrian Alps up the Grossglockner where snow was falling. In the wet, there is more chemical grip than the vaunted PR3s. They were fantastic in damp conditions where traction and grip remained superb through tree lined high speed sweepers where the tarmac was not always dry. And they were ultra stable too - thankfully with none of the squirming of PR3s where the tread blocks move. In the pouring wet where water was still standing, the M7RRs showed some nervousness at speed - the Z8s and PR3s definitely clear more standing water.
BUT after just 2800 miles, the M7RRs are worn down to the wear bars. After 2200 miles (with about 1.5mm to the wear bars), there was a noticeable drop off in performance. Grip fell off significantly, and the carcass felt thin with some rear carcass deflection under high acceleration or tramlining when following crowned roads. They have worn very evenly with no cupping or flat spots, and I would recommend them as a fast road tyre. Just don't expect the mileage.
After 2800 miles, fairly evenly worn to the wear bars, although there is slightly more tread left on the sides (normal). No squaring. Time to change!
jasesapphy said:
Great review
Given the choice for a a toy MZRR or PP3
M7RRGiven the choice for a a toy MZRR or PP3
but it's a close call. The PP3 offers similar life (I did 2000 miles last year on them, same roads, on the 1098R).
M7RR is more stable and grippy in the dry/heat. Better in the damp. Better 'feel', and offers more consistency in transition because of a less V-shaped carcass profile. Superior bump absorbtion.
PP3 provides a very strong sense of assurance to the average rider because the outer rubber is very soft and 'keys' into the road surface. Goes off quicker than the M7RR in high heat and starts sliding sooner. Better in standing water, not as good in the damp. Sharper carcass profile means the PP3 drops into corners more suddenly than the M7RR.
What you'll prefer depends on your riding style, bike, and typical conditions. But if you ride fast, the M7RRs are superior.
jasesapphy said:
Not bothered about milage or riding in very wet
Do like a bit of knee scraping track day stuff, (and a big roundabout just for fun)
My PP3s just coming to end of life on a 600 managed about 2300
Sounds about right. My PP3s were shagged after 2100 road miles on the Duc. (mostly fast cruising, not stop/go)Do like a bit of knee scraping track day stuff, (and a big roundabout just for fun)
My PP3s just coming to end of life on a 600 managed about 2300
Chipchap said:
spareparts said:
PP3 provides a very strong sense of assurance to the average rider
That'll be me then.
It's the outer soft rubber layer that feels like it is chewing into the road surface - it's quite unlike any other tyre I've experienced. I'm not convinced, however, that it is actually any grippier than other tyres like the M7RR or DRC in the dry. Hence it gives a strong sense of assurance.smack said:
3DP said:
Towards the end of the trip, I was not having to nurse the tyres like Spareparts as I still had tread and plenty of grip. They probably have the best part of 1000 miles left in them.
That is the problem with Eurotrips - tyres.... The options are:1. Get tyres that last the trip, so sports touring tyres if you are doing mega miles
2. Don't go as far
3. Replace them during the trip, but then you are going to get massively ripped of as you are not local, and British. And you can lose half a day messing about.
My first trip I had to nurse my brakes around the Alps as I couldn't find pads stopping in every bike shop in France and Italy. And had to nurse a rear tyre after on the 2nd day of a long weekend trip as I thought they had enough meat on them so didn't replace them, hitting the threads on the M25 home.
I am uncertain if I do sports 'touring' in the same way most riders do, hence my preference for performance over longevity. If there was an easy opportunity to change tyres for fresh hoops mid-trip, then that would be worth doing imho. Having the confidence to push and trust your tyres is everything when enjoying a bike imho.
Mr OCD said:
One thing I don't understand is how little mileage you are getting from modern sports rubber... is this due to the road surfaces abroad being more abrasive? ... the weight of the bike / rider... ?
I would have expected with fast road riding around 4k-5k miles otherwise.
I don't think the road surfaces were overly abrasive. Those M7RRs covered roads from Bilbao up to the Grossglockner and everything in between. The most I have ever gotten out of a modern tyre (including PP3, DRC, SportSmart, SC, SCv2, and now M7RR) is about 3k miles, and apart from the SC/SCv2 (1k miles), I've only gotten between 2-2.5k miles on average. 3DP will tell you that I am not an aggressive rider - in his own words... "conservative" I would have expected with fast road riding around 4k-5k miles otherwise.
I'm not sure why others often ride so slowly though. Weight? I'm between 90-95kg depending on time of year Chipchap said:
Yes, why do you think that is Spareparts ? [lol]
Al, come on. You will be the first to admit that the pace was quite leisurely as the 2014 focus was safety and scenery! Mr OCD said:
Strange so even on a tyre such a SC / SCv2's you get the same mileage? What is the bike?
No, I said I only get about 1k miles out of an SC. But that is not a fair comparison as that is a combination of track and road hence why I singled them out. Other tyres are almost purely road.Mr OCD said:
2000-2500 miles from something like a Pilot Power 3 is NOT atypical mileage.
The PP3s were box fresh at the start of my roadtrip to the Pyrenees in 2013. They were shot at the end (2100 miles)Mr OCD said:
spareparts said:
No, I said I only get about 1k miles out of an SC.
Missed that part... I guess it comes down to the style of bike... what sort of mileage do you get from the fronts?
Chipchap said:
It was certainly slower than last year but by no means can it ever be described as pedestrian. Over 12 days I cannot recall anyone, local or not overtake us or even stay with us anywhere. Even on roads that we were riding for the first time. We were not "On it" everywhere but we certainly made swift progress. We did see some wonderful scenery but we still needed to cover c270-300 miles each day whatever the weather or roads. We have possibly 1500+ images between us to show that we did stop and gawk a fair bit.
My experience was that in the really slow tight nadgery stuff [10-20 mph] I [not the bike] just could not live with 3 of you but on the 30-110 stuff I was in the hunt. Above that the Speed Triple was just the wrong tool for the job.
I need to learn how to ride those mountain hairpins as you 3 made me look decidedly below average. Perhaps that's why your tyres did not last. The slow turns with low gear big throttle exits ?
A
Al, you are being overly modest. I distinctly remember waving you through in a number of sections (Rio Eseras) and I have video to prove My experience was that in the really slow tight nadgery stuff [10-20 mph] I [not the bike] just could not live with 3 of you but on the 30-110 stuff I was in the hunt. Above that the Speed Triple was just the wrong tool for the job.
I need to learn how to ride those mountain hairpins as you 3 made me look decidedly below average. Perhaps that's why your tyres did not last. The slow turns with low gear big throttle exits ?
A
The K is a big ole bus that is new to me and I was learning to ride it all the way on this trip. As a result, I was happy sitting in the higher gears throughout, never less than 2nd on a tight hairpin, unless going downhill. Nothing could live with the Tuono aggressively dumping full V-twin throttle through shortened gearing on exit though.Mr OCD said:
spareparts said:
The PP3s were box fresh at the start of my roadtrip to the Pyrenees in 2013. They were shot at the end (2100 miles)
I always change my tyres in pairs. When the rear is shot, the front gets changed too.
Fair enough... have you done the same trip on a different bike but similar rubber before for comparison?I always change my tyres in pairs. When the rear is shot, the front gets changed too.
As for the M7 RR I've found out they are made by Pirelli... I wonder what tyre is a direct comparison to the M7RR?
3DP said:
Mr OCD said:
SAS Tom said:
I think your version of fast road riding and his may differ...
It doesn't matter if it does / does not ... 2000-2500 miles from something like a Pilot Power 3 is NOT atypical mileage.On a single compound older sports tyre... something more track biased such as supercorsa's or the like yes I'd accept that...
On a modern multi-compound sports road tyre - no
This route ruined me physically, caused the ZZR pads to smoke heavily twice and had the front PR3 with rubber hanging off all of the sipes across the full width of the tyre. The rear lost all of its leading edges on the blocks and using the ABS on the rear brake to back it in caused some chunking either side of the middle, even if it did make you feel like a hero.
Similarly in the foothills of the Pyranees. Constant radius lefts and rights that went on forever at 130+ with big lean had a visible affect.
Without the couple of days of rain we had I reckon the tyres would have been even worse! All of the edge of the Gorge du Verdon was taken carefully with mud on the road in torrential rain. That would have been another 100+ miles of very rapid open mountain roads in the dry.
The scenery was epic! 
Baldy881 said:
I could be very tempted to try some Metzeler rubber on the GSX-R1000 K4, the bike has Dunlop D209 Q's on it now but they appear quite well worn and my only previous experience of Dunlop tyres was mixed to say the least 
Been reading a number of reviews today (really off the back of this thread - thanks!) and it seems all the Metz's come rated.
But where do you turn? If I went solely on journo reviews and user reviews there'd be no need for more than the Sportec M3:
http://www.visordown.com/product-features/metzeler...
That's a blindin review right there and user reviews all over the WWW would support it. But then it's 2006 technology (which granted my bike is 2004 so tech is later than the bike). Obviously the newer tyres get equal or better reviews.
So you think maybe Sportec M5, but why not the M7RR as it's the newest tech? I think I can overcome the urge to buy something like a Racetec K3 as my use does not justify. Then there's the pricing... (using FWR as a comparison)
Sportec M3 pair £175
Sportec M5 pair £213
Sportec M7RR pair £226
(I see a trend forming here)
Racetec K3 pair £254
at which point I baulk
Always been a Bridgestone fan, and never felt I need more than the BT016 has to offer, but then I feel i'm daft to dismiss the Metzeler as they seem better reviewed overall and the Bridgestone does suffer fatigue quite early (sub 3k miles).
What to do?!
Don't bother with the M3. They are like concrete in comparison to the latest M7RR. The M5 was a top rated tyre, and the M7RR builds on this. In the Metzeler range, the current tyres are Z8 M/O for sports touring, the M7RR for road sports, and Racetecs for track. Everything else has been superceded.Been reading a number of reviews today (really off the back of this thread - thanks!
) and it seems all the Metz's come rated.But where do you turn? If I went solely on journo reviews and user reviews there'd be no need for more than the Sportec M3:
http://www.visordown.com/product-features/metzeler...
That's a blindin review right there and user reviews all over the WWW would support it. But then it's 2006 technology (which granted my bike is 2004 so tech is later than the bike). Obviously the newer tyres get equal or better reviews.
So you think maybe Sportec M5, but why not the M7RR as it's the newest tech? I think I can overcome the urge to buy something like a Racetec K3 as my use does not justify. Then there's the pricing... (using FWR as a comparison)
Sportec M3 pair £175
Sportec M5 pair £213
Sportec M7RR pair £226
(I see a trend forming here
)Racetec K3 pair £254
at which point I baulk
Always been a Bridgestone fan, and never felt I need more than the BT016 has to offer, but then I feel i'm daft to dismiss the Metzeler as they seem better reviewed overall and the Bridgestone does suffer fatigue quite early (sub 3k miles).
What to do?!
I must admit that I have long been a Pirelli fan, but to me the unique carcass construction of the Metzeler range gives a very user-friendly tyre in terms of stability and comfort without sacrificing performance/turn-in. Their focus on wet weather compounds also seems to be setting the bar for manufacturers as both their Z8 and now M7RR have been top rated in the wet for their respective categories.
SVS said:
That's (more) great info. Where/who rated the M7RR top in the wet? Was it a magazine test?
Motorrad recent test. http://de.auto.de/magazin/showArticle/article/1307...Here is the Google Translate excerpt -
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
If 7/10ths, any touring tyre will do really. I've been running the new Dunlop RoadSmart 2 tyres on my GS (3DP knows how I ride), and they've been great. Not the quickest turning tyre due to their rounded carcass profile, but copious dry grip for the road to wheelie off the throttle and huge wet grip (equivalent to PR3/4). And without the squirming movement that afflicts all the PR3/4 tyres due to their sipes.I also ran Metzeler Z8 touring tyres which look almost identical to the M7RRs in terms of tread design, but are more touring oriented. M7RRs are still fantastic road sports bike handling tyres, but they come at the expense of longevity. The latest touring tyres are more than enough imho for proper pace on the road.
As a comparison to the M7RR, I still rate the Diablo Rosso Corsa as a fantastic sports bike tyre - very similar to the M7RRs in concept, but offering more responsiveness in the dry (sharper profile) without giving up much in wet grip stakes.
3DP said:
This was a loaded up ZZR1400. 600s are much easier on the tyres. I managed 2800 miles on the Pilot Power 3 on the 600RR, which I was happy with. Pirelli Rosso Corsa rear lasted 2300 miles on the 600. Conversely they were on target to last 1200 miles on the Ducati 996S. I reckon it will be max 900 miles out of the rear Qualifier 2 on my Blade, which is nuts.
I need non-sports touring tyres on the Blade for a Euro hoon in Spain/Portugal next year, with a rear that must last 2500 miles. Not sure what the best option will be, but don't want to go for PR4 or PR3 again, just to get the tyre life. Probably Pilot Power 3, or possibly M7RR.
It won't be quite so bad on the trip, Pete... as it was in 2013, each 'stint' on the angry bikes is very little start/stop, and a bit like a long track session: the few times we braked to a stop was at each petrol station every 100 miles or so I need non-sports touring tyres on the Blade for a Euro hoon in Spain/Portugal next year, with a rear that must last 2500 miles. Not sure what the best option will be, but don't want to go for PR4 or PR3 again, just to get the tyre life. Probably Pilot Power 3, or possibly M7RR.
In 2013, PP3s lasted me the whole trip (2300mi) on the R, but only just. They were a compromise though - they weren't fully up to the task on the N260: they melted in the Spanish heat and started sliding to the point where I just had to back off the pace. However, the Blade will be easier on them with the IL4 compared to the VTwin. The downside to PP3s is knowing that DRCs are just a far superior handling tyre and perform much better at high temps. I'm tempted to use DRCs for next year, unless something better comes out. I don't think M7RRs last as long... that's a hunch, and I'm running DRCs at the moment on the R as an experiment.
In summary, all for road use:
DRCs: best fast road tyre for mainly dry, but also good if caught out in the wet. Great sportsbike handling. Decent mileage. Can do trackdays.
M7RRs: Probably best all round fast road tyre, especially if running in the wet more often. Not as good handling as DRCs due to slower carcass radius, but it's a compromise. Can do trackdays.
PP3s: Good compromised sports tyre - wet weather is great, mileage better than DRCs/M7RRs, not as good for handling compared to DRC/M7RR, and struggles in high heat conditions including dry track conditions.
PR3/PR4s: Great commuting tyre. Great in the soaking wet. Rubbish handling when pushing on, not really a sportsbike tyre.
RoadSmart2s: Great touring tyre, superb wet weather performance and chemical grip for damp conditions, better handling than PR3/PR4, does good mileage.
Z8s: Same as RoadSmart2s.
SC SP: road biased compound, more extreme version of DRCs. Pointless really.
SC 0/1/2: track biased compound, pointless on the road as you won't be getting enough heat in them for them to work at their optimum. And if you are, you should be riding the IoM TT, and you're probably waiting to be taken home in an ambulance/coffin. Best looking tyre though
DRCs: best fast road tyre for mainly dry, but also good if caught out in the wet. Great sportsbike handling. Decent mileage. Can do trackdays.
M7RRs: Probably best all round fast road tyre, especially if running in the wet more often. Not as good handling as DRCs due to slower carcass radius, but it's a compromise. Can do trackdays.
PP3s: Good compromised sports tyre - wet weather is great, mileage better than DRCs/M7RRs, not as good for handling compared to DRC/M7RR, and struggles in high heat conditions including dry track conditions.
PR3/PR4s: Great commuting tyre. Great in the soaking wet. Rubbish handling when pushing on, not really a sportsbike tyre.
RoadSmart2s: Great touring tyre, superb wet weather performance and chemical grip for damp conditions, better handling than PR3/PR4, does good mileage.
Z8s: Same as RoadSmart2s.
SC SP: road biased compound, more extreme version of DRCs. Pointless really.
SC 0/1/2: track biased compound, pointless on the road as you won't be getting enough heat in them for them to work at their optimum. And if you are, you should be riding the IoM TT, and you're probably waiting to be taken home in an ambulance/coffin. Best looking tyre though
hebegb said:
spareparts said:
In summary, all for road use:
DRCs: best fast road tyre for mainly dry, but also good if caught out in the wet. Great sportsbike handling. Decent mileage. Can do trackdays.
M7RRs: Probably best all round fast road tyre, especially if running in the wet more often. Not as good handling as DRCs due to slower carcass radius, but it's a compromise. Can do trackdays.
PP3s: Good compromised sports tyre - wet weather is great, mileage better than DRCs/M7RRs, not as good for handling compared to DRC/M7RR, and struggles in high heat conditions including dry track conditions.
PR3/PR4s: Great commuting tyre. Great in the soaking wet. Rubbish handling when pushing on, not really a sportsbike tyre.
RoadSmart2s: Great touring tyre, superb wet weather performance and chemical grip for damp conditions, better handling than PR3/PR4, does good mileage.
Z8s: Same as RoadSmart2s.
SC SP: road biased compound, more extreme version of DRCs. Pointless really.
SC 0/1/2: track biased compound, pointless on the road as you won't be getting enough heat in them for them to work at their optimum. And if you are, you should be riding the IoM TT, and you're probably waiting to be taken home in an ambulance/coffin. Best looking tyre though
Read this with interest over the last couple of evenings, didn't have the energy to respond with input...I do have now :DRCs: best fast road tyre for mainly dry, but also good if caught out in the wet. Great sportsbike handling. Decent mileage. Can do trackdays.
M7RRs: Probably best all round fast road tyre, especially if running in the wet more often. Not as good handling as DRCs due to slower carcass radius, but it's a compromise. Can do trackdays.
PP3s: Good compromised sports tyre - wet weather is great, mileage better than DRCs/M7RRs, not as good for handling compared to DRC/M7RR, and struggles in high heat conditions including dry track conditions.
PR3/PR4s: Great commuting tyre. Great in the soaking wet. Rubbish handling when pushing on, not really a sportsbike tyre.
RoadSmart2s: Great touring tyre, superb wet weather performance and chemical grip for damp conditions, better handling than PR3/PR4, does good mileage.
Z8s: Same as RoadSmart2s.
SC SP: road biased compound, more extreme version of DRCs. Pointless really.
SC 0/1/2: track biased compound, pointless on the road as you won't be getting enough heat in them for them to work at their optimum. And if you are, you should be riding the IoM TT, and you're probably waiting to be taken home in an ambulance/coffin. Best looking tyre though
I returned from an 8 day Euro trip on Sunday, having bought a new set of M7RRs and trailered the bike down to Dover, didnt want ( 1.) 700 miles(return) of useless motorway squaring off riding to Dover on a Friday night after a long working week and 2. the sorry trawl home up motorways when riding , by then, would be tortuous .....so the trailer it was.
The first time the tyres touched tarmac was the half mile to the ferry from the guest house and up the slippery metal ramp in the wet. I knew they were good right then. No need for any real "scrubbing in" and two hours later hauling down towards Troyes on purely N roads and smaller, these tyres felt seriously good , in fact, confirmed to me as the best road tyre I have ever used in approx. 30,000 Euro miles over the last ten years. Not trying to be clever , but, having broken the back of run down to Troyes and it having dried up and become warm and sunny, I was leading the group and waited at a roundabout for a couple of minutes, decided to scrub them some more and with 30kg Ventura bag on back of bike etc, ever so easily found left-hand kneedown round roundabout came about without even "trying" - I do NOT ever set out to do kneedown on the road and actually try hard not to on track- (expensive sliders to replace- no thanks...)
Continued to enjoy them across to the Dordogne, our regular stomping ground with some gorgeous flowing twisties in every direction for a week , then home. Some wet, damp, dry and some seriously hot and sticky....
superb everywhere and only felt tiny movement on damp white lines when hard over and or gassing, and the momentary dry movement on hardest pushing, probably just grit/dust on white lines, but on edges of tyres only.
Massively confidence inspiring and very quick warm-up and far preferable, for me anyway, to Rosso Corsa everywhere, certainly the way I have my S1000 set up .
Came home via Rouen overnight and now with bit of wear showing on rear centre mainly , worsening conditions, colder , rain, back into Calais, still no issues.
Total mileage ,( 2 rest days out of 8 ,) 2,200 miles, will check tread depth tonight as got to do chain now its been washed properly and dried, shall post it up then , but some serious hard charging miles on S1000 done, , so , in brief, I applaud Spareparts appraisal and I wholeheartedly recommend these tyres for value and performance above all others for road use - oh and a mate didnt exactly disgrace himself on them in the Fast group at Croft on his HP4 with 4,000 miles on them either ........thumbs up.
Tell us more about your roadtrip with pics! Sounds great!
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