Indian 'what's in the box' reveal - it's a NEW Scout

[tvrolet]

Not surprisingly the Indian ‘What’s in the box’ teaser slipped under the PH radar. But the reveal was last night at Sturgis and all the Indian web sites have now been updated to co-ordinate – so it’s a new Indian Scout



Details here : http://www.indianmotorcycle.co.uk/indian-scout

In fairness that’s what was expected (or hoped) – the classic line-up had a big v-twin (Chief), lightweight v-twin (Scout) and a longitudinal inline 4…and not too many folks thought a 4 was coming.

I have to say Polaris have done an absolutely outstanding job since they acquired the brand. The Chief (and Chieftain…and now joined by the Road Master) was a brand-new ground-up design with a new engine and transmission just for that bike, new chassis…in fact everything is new specifically for the bike even down to the switchgear and mirrors. The attention to detail and quality is exemplary. I gather from design brief to launch was 27 months. From the forums I’m thinking about 10,000 were sold, and unlike HD there have been no recalls, no significant issues and no TADTS.

And looking at the information available on the Scout it’s another brand new engine, new chassis (looks like exposed aluminium sections), new wheels etc. They’re saying 100hp, which is fine for the style of bike and I note a lot in the marketing pushing it to new riders and women riders – there’s a reduced-reach setup available. But at almost half the price of a Chief, I guess something has had to give quality or equipment-wise.

Looks a nice bit of kit and I’m sure folks looking at sportsters AND V-Rods will both give this think a look. Obviously not to everyone’s tastes and certainly not an out-and-out sports bike.

I probably sound like an advert for Indian but I’ve always had a soft spot for the brand and it’s good to see a corporation take on a famous name and do right by it – keep the heritage, but bring it up-to-date and do it PROPERLY irrespective of the costs involved. TVR anyone? I’d certainly rather have Polaris shares then HD shares right now. And more pressure on HD with the new Road Master (also slipped in under the PH radar).

…and a very cool video – stick with it until the end. As well as knowing how to build a bike, the guys at Polaris certainly know how to trade on heritage and have their marketing spot-on…IMHO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zny8Wdpk9Gk&fe...


I’ll keep the Chief though. My days for a sporty ride are long gone!

So PH Mods and Admins…this is an Indian – that’s I – N – D – I – A - N. I’ve been requesting you add INDIAN to the list of marques in the ‘your garage' list since December. You’ve even got Silk, Triton and TriBSA in there. With a heritage back to 1901 and now a 5-model line-up how about it?

[tvrolet]

TLandCruiser said:

How do you think this will be compare to a Harley Davidson sportser? I think the scout looks beautiful but think the harley will make a nicer sound

Not surprisingly I haven't heard a Scout since I've never seen one in the flesh...but I'd be surprised if the Scout sounded less impressive than the HD. Lets remember Polaris have HD firmly in their sights and set out to build bikes to compete head-on with every base covered. The only thing right now is there are loads of after-market pipes for the HD, and it'll take a while for the Indian stuff to come through (although I'd be surprised if there wasn't a set of Stage 1 pipes by the time the bikes hit the dealers...that was certainly the case with the Chiefs). Pretty much every comparison I've seen of Glides vs Chiefs has the Indian out front. I'd be surprised if they'd dropped the ball with the Scout vs Sportster...logic would suggest Polaris had whole shedload of Sportsters and V-Rods to test against. Let us know how it rides and sounds vs a Sportster when you get the chance.

Plus, with an Indian, the T-shirts are waaay cooler, and you don't have to cut the sleeves off your jacket and sew patches on the back, nor grow a beard and a pig-tail and ride with a permanent scowl

[tvrolet]

Wacky Racer said:

How are you liking your new bike William?

It looks lovely.......

Faultless. And not just that it hasn't broken, but the more time I've spent with it the more I see there's really noting I can do to make the bike better. No surprise the Indian accessory list isn't very big, and most of it is just styling. I haven't come across anything that looks built down to a price. The chrome is perfect. The build is spot-on. The quality of every single component is great and there are so many nice touches. I was sure I would like it (I bought it before any were available in the UK to test ride) but it has been a revelation. I've done 3000 miles since April in all weathers on everything from single track roads in the North of Scotland to motorways and it's just so capable.

So from a bit of initial concern buying a bike I hadn't ridden I'm very very pleased with it

[tvrolet]

First ride report/video from some US journos...cool dude etc...

http://m.motorcycle-usa.com/155/18963/Motorcycle-A...

Interesting all the talk of marketing to new riders. I remember having a Z900 in 1976 and it was THE fastest thing pennies could buy, and major bragging rights with 82 horsepower since the Honda 750/Trident/Commando 850 were all sub 60hp and all classed as bikes suitable for only the hairy of chest.

This thing has 100hp.

Hell a Ducati 916 only has 14 more... Have 100hp bikes really gotten that easy to ride these days? My first 'big' bike was a Commando, and at maybe 60hp it scared me sh!tless until I got used to it...and I'd been riding for a couple of years.

[tvrolet]

Russ T Bolt said:

mrmaggit said:

bimsb6 said:

mrmaggit said:

I think they look superb, and I reckon the nail has just entered the coffin of the Dyna range. H-D will struggle selling the 1200 Sportster as well, as it looks like the Scouts will be around £10,300. It may even kill the V-rod too. As I said earlier, if I was H-D, I'd be bricking it.



maggit

Not going to happen , that's like saying"'that's it for suzuki/kawasaki/honda " as yamaha have bought out the latest greatest r1 ! Makes no sense especially the v rod which already makes over 14 hp more than the scout !

We'll see.

HD must be terrified.

Victory Motorcycles revenue Q4 2013 $68.8 million
Harley Davidson revenue Q4 2013 $1.19 billion

Interestingly Polaris revenue Q4 2013 $1.08 billion

I wonder how much of the HD revenues are in clothing and accessories? Anyway, since Indians were only relaunched last August it's been pretty impressive from a standing start.
2012/13 no.of Indian Chiefs/Chieftains sold - 0
2013/14 no.of Indian Chiefs/Chieftains sold - est 10,000
2013/14 no.of HDs recalled - 25,000 with 'do not ride' + 3,000 this month
2013/14 no.of Indian Chiefs/Chieftains recalled - 0

As above, I'd rather have shares in Polaris than HD. Exciting times ahead. Absolutely nothing against HD and came oh-so-close to buying a new Road King...but it's nice to see some solid competition from the new kid on the block

[tvrolet]

Russ T Bolt said:

Why are the FY 13/14 sales figures estimated, don't they know how many they sold ?

I'm sure they do - but not figures I have. I was going on the VIN numbers that are now coming through to the dealers. Remember the bikes were only revealed at Sturgis this time last year and didn't appear in the dealers until September I guess. There were none available to ride/demo in the UK until January IIRC? The first 1901 bikes were numbered (mine's #1717 ), and they pretty much sold out by December. I'd say it's mighty impressive to go from 0 units to 1901 units sold of a £20,000 product when all potential purchasers had to go on was the name, the looks, and the reputation for a quality build that Polaris and Victory brought to the party. THAT's what Victory did for Indian - I've never heard anyone have a bad word so say about a Victory; it's praise all the way. And that's what's given folks the confidence with Indian initially I'd say.

Russ T Bolt said:

My point was that Victory haven't had much of an impact on HD, why do you think it will be significantly different with Indian.

Heritage, Heritage and Heritage. Folks can argue as much as they like that the current bikes aren't true Indians (although in fairness, that's really only from the HD camp), but it says Indian on the tank (and on 36 other places...I counted ) who outside the motorcycling community has heard of Victory? Great bikes but zero heritage.

Why is heritage important? Well I can't have been alone in looking for my own chunk of heavyweight V-twin Americana. I was absolutely going to buy a Road King...in blue...hell I even bought a T-shirt with a blue Road King in advance of ordering. I was under no illusions that the Victory was a better bike, together with some of the Japanese cruisers. But I wanted proper American.

Then I saw the Indians just after the launch. The name had all the same kudos to me as Harley - more so in fact. My late dad has always talked of how he liked the Indians he'd come across that some of the American forces had; I know the history, I knew the brand, I'd seen The World's Fastest Indian

So without even swinging a leg across one I'd placed an order...with confidence in build quality coming pretty much exclusively from what Polaris had done with Victory.

If you're in the market for a bike like this then you're either just looking for a generic cruiser, in which case anything will do, or you're looking for 'an American V-twin'. And loads of folks are in the latter category. And despite being an 'American V-twin' Victory just didn't have the heritage. Indian does, and so pretty much every Indian sold isn't a lost sale of a Honda, Kawasaki, Ducati or whatever - most Indian sales are lost Harley sales.

So yes - I am a paid-up Indian fan-boy, but supported by the quality of the bikes. Park the Indian beside anything else (including HDs) and unless they're real out-and-out custom jobs it's the Indian that gets the attention. And the brand recognition from non-bikers is amazing.

I like Harleys, and if Indian hadn't launched the Chief last year I'd be riding one now. But I also like what Polaris have done with the Indian brand and of course the bikes, and I think it's a real wake-up call for HD. And unless HD pull something else out of the hat rather than parts-bin specials or different paint jobs then Indian is going to take a big part of their market in years to come...although from a purely selfish perspective I'd be happy to have he only Indian in town; I don't need to see any more on the roads.

I think its exciting times ahead if you are in to American motorcycles, with HD and Indian back in the market together. A bit like the American muscle-car revival I guess where after a few relatively stagnant years we've got Mustangs (OK, Pony car), Camaros and Challengers slugging it out. It can only be good, IF HD raise their game.

And so back to the Scout. It's a classic name with great recognition, and with the first ride reports starting to filter through it seems to be a quality bit of kit with good power, handling and manners.

[tvrolet]

srob said:

Now come on Indian, build another four

Like this?



OK, OK, it's not a 'Polaris' Indian, but I another branch of the Indian family tree.
No idea what's happened to that business now, but it used to be in Edinburgh...
http://www.p2r.se/mc/dakota4/

[tvrolet]

mrmaggit said:

Just out of interest, what mpg are you getting from the Chief? I ask because I had a test ride on a Vintage last Friday, and the Roadmaster is exactly what I'm looking for (couldn't get hold of a Chieftain to test, the Press have them). On the way home, worked out that the Vegas did as near 60mpg as makes no difference, and not much came past on the A1, but it was sodding uncomfortable after an hour at 70+ leptons.

In the 40s MPG range. I've never seen it better than 48mpg (off the dash read-out), but never worse than 42mpg...although in fairness I don't look at it the whole time. I'm 99% sure the display is proper Imperial gallons and not US gallons as there's a Gallon option in the non-US configuration...and it ties-up with my back-of-fag-packet calculations. The tank is about 4.5 Imperial gallons and I can get 200 miles before it says low-fuel.

Not sure how much is left at that point as I've never ran it to empty, and about the only real pain on the bike is that the 'range left' display switches to 'Lo Fuel' once you're low. So when you don't really care it will happily say there's 187 miles left...but when it's real important and you want to know if you've a teaspoon or a cupful of fuel left it doesn't say the range. But then I've a car that's just the same so I guess it's a fairly common design.

How did you like the Chief Vintage? As I guess you know the motor and the running gear is the same as the Chieftain/Road Master, but they have a slightly steeper steering angle. With 'just' the standard screen on the Vintage there's no wind pressure at any speed (as I guess you found out) - but I found quite a lot of helmet buffeting (ooh er missus) at 70+...regulations permitting. I fitted the lower wind deflectors, which are fairly discrete on the Vintage, and it pretty much cured it. Regulations permitting bike and rider would be happy enough to sit at 3-figure-speeds until the fuel runs out. But an indicated 85 (where allowed) seems to be a pretty good compromise with no wind (I ride with a full face but no visor), and still some performance in reserve. I'd have to assume the Road Master would offer at least the same wind protection if not a whole lot more. But I do know some folks with Chieftains have also fitted the lower wind deflectors so maybe there's a helmet buffet issue at speed there too? I'd guess the lowers on the Road Master would negate their use though.

The ability to haul miles at decent speeds without physical effort is an unexpected bonus for me (and of course not unique to the Indian, but I've never had a bike with a barn-door screen before). Previously I would have planned routes to avoid motorways, but now I'm happy to set it on cruise and watch the miles tick by. It puts a lot more nice riding roads in reach if you can get to and from them quicker.

Coming from the Victory I wonder if you felt the 111 motor was a bit more, er, characterful...as on paper I'd guess the Victory motor is more sophisticated? And I guess the bike is a fair bit heavier too...but I think the Vintage certainly is quite agile for its size.

Edited by tvrolet on Tuesday 19th August 13:46

[tvrolet]

mrmaggit said:

The Victory engine is a little more "revvy" than the 111, but both have a lot of stomp. Certainly a lot more than a standard H-D, and more than the standard "Stage 1" kit that H-D seems to think that every one of their products needs. Not so with the Indian. All it needs in my opinion is the option for a heel/toe gearchanger, as the reach for the gear lever for my 5ft 8 frame means there is a loading on the top of the foot/ankle, which would get tiring after a while. Otherwise, I can't think of anything else that you would need to spend any money on for the bike.

All I 'needed' was the Fishtails which came with a stage 1 flash update, and a different tank logo Oh, and the wind deflectors. I couldn't think of anything else I'd want to add...but I do like the look of the round 'big sucker' air filter they've just released...so that's maybe the only other thing I would do to the bike.

I'm happy with just a toe shifter, but I see there is a heel shifter option from Indian now. I don't know what the 'extras' availability is like now but for a while there were shortage of some of the goodies as they were getting up to speed manufacturing. But I know there's a heel shifter option from Aeromach http://www.aeromachmfg.com/Indian_Motorcycle_s/41....

...and back on topic - as well as reading a few of the Scout reviews, which all seem real positive, I was talking to a guy who's had a test ride at Sturgis and he was mighty impressed.

Edited by tvrolet on Tuesday 19th August 20:43

[tvrolet]

Quite a good road test against pretty much all of the other cruisers in the [US] market.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/shootout-mo-c...

I admit to have never seen the Honda before and it looked really neat. Do they sell it in the UK? Never seen one. Quite liked the Guzzi too...