Proper Sports Tourers and the K1300S
Discussion
So having used the KTM 1190 up and around darkest Africa, my mind is wandering to something new and less knobbly. Something to cover larger distances, exclusively on black top, with the Mrs aboard. This last requirement has come about as she loves going pillion, ( great rider see 
) and being able to take her on brekky runs and keep up with the sports bikes. Tried a pillion seat on the RSV4 and we made it a solid 377 yards before i was instructed to turn around and take her home!!!
The KTM is ok, but not sure i really love it that much to forge a long term relationship especially as it needs all the settings to be off to be properly quick, which seems a bit at odds with the basic concept.
But for some reason, i find myself drawn inexorably to the very Tuetonic k1300S. I have always like the bige barge and i think it calls to some of the Germanic blood coursing through my veins. Anyhoo, i find myself scouring the usual places and some very nice examples have popped up. Anything to look out for on these??
But rather than just concentrate on the big kraut, what else is there? 2 up. Luggage. Comfy. FAST!
) and being able to take her on brekky runs and keep up with the sports bikes. Tried a pillion seat on the RSV4 and we made it a solid 377 yards before i was instructed to turn around and take her home!!!The KTM is ok, but not sure i really love it that much to forge a long term relationship especially as it needs all the settings to be off to be properly quick, which seems a bit at odds with the basic concept.
But for some reason, i find myself drawn inexorably to the very Tuetonic k1300S. I have always like the bige barge and i think it calls to some of the Germanic blood coursing through my veins. Anyhoo, i find myself scouring the usual places and some very nice examples have popped up. Anything to look out for on these??
But rather than just concentrate on the big kraut, what else is there? 2 up. Luggage. Comfy. FAST!
Edited by bass gt3 on Monday 29th September 09:40
Jazoli said:
ZZR1400? plenty quick enough, or a VFR1200? pan European? That'll tick the comfy box, pin sharp handling isn't really an issue 2 up with luggage.
Forgot about the VFR. I did take a test ride one a while back and was very impressed. Could be a contender. Seems low mileage examples can be had for around 6-7k including full Honda luggage.
black-k1 said:
As you may have gathered from my posts, I love my K1300S and I think it’s the best “do everything” motorcycle you can get. When I bought it 18 months ago, I looked at both the VFR1200 and the ZZR1400. I ruled the VFR out on account of its looks (totally subjective) and the fact that I expected a sports tourer to easily manage 150 miles between fill ups.
The ZZR was a close second but lost out on the basis that it didn’t have EAS. While ESA seems like a gimmick, the ability to change the suspension set up at the press of a button, while on the move, to suit changing road conditions very quickly becomes an essential.
The K1300S is not without issue and suffers from the same problems that most modern BMWs suffer from of excellent build quality but less than good component quality. In particular, the switch gear that is being replaced at the moment is a problem that BMW should just not have.
As regards riding, it’s not the fastest but is still “bloody fast”. It handles really well for a big bike and can keep sports bikes in view on anything other than the track. I find it VERY comfortable having done a number of 600+ mile, 12+ hour days. It returns a genuine 48 – 52mpg at fast road speeds (95 – 100 mph on motorways) and carries its integrated luggage well. Pillions also get a comfortable deal and I’ve had not complaints from the back seat of mine.
It’s surprisingly good for commuting (without panniers) and will fit through gaps that are smaller than you would expect. It also has a reasonable low seat height (for a bike with touring pretentions) which makes low speed handling a lot easier than you would think.
If you want to “eat miles” on a mixture of (tarmac) roads and yet still have fun then there really isn’t a better option.
I know you are somewhat evangelical about your bike, but i can sort of see why. The ZZR was a close second but lost out on the basis that it didn’t have EAS. While ESA seems like a gimmick, the ability to change the suspension set up at the press of a button, while on the move, to suit changing road conditions very quickly becomes an essential.
The K1300S is not without issue and suffers from the same problems that most modern BMWs suffer from of excellent build quality but less than good component quality. In particular, the switch gear that is being replaced at the moment is a problem that BMW should just not have.
As regards riding, it’s not the fastest but is still “bloody fast”. It handles really well for a big bike and can keep sports bikes in view on anything other than the track. I find it VERY comfortable having done a number of 600+ mile, 12+ hour days. It returns a genuine 48 – 52mpg at fast road speeds (95 – 100 mph on motorways) and carries its integrated luggage well. Pillions also get a comfortable deal and I’ve had not complaints from the back seat of mine.
It’s surprisingly good for commuting (without panniers) and will fit through gaps that are smaller than you would expect. It also has a reasonable low seat height (for a bike with touring pretentions) which makes low speed handling a lot easier than you would think.
If you want to “eat miles” on a mixture of (tarmac) roads and yet still have fun then there really isn’t a better option.
Edited by black-k1 on Monday 29th September 11:06
Regarding the Honda, i have no issues with the looks or styling, but the range is a problem. Coming from the KTM where 250 miles between fill ups was possible, doing sub 150 seems a bit poor. Given that this bike wouldn't be hooning around the wilderness like the KTM was, and so petrol stations abound in SA , having to fill up the Honda so often seems at oddgic of the bike.
As for other bikes, the ZZR isn't readily available here so finding a decent second hand one is a real problem, same for the Pan- Euro. Although i'm not sure i'mm quite ready for a full dress tourer anyway. Same applies to the k133 GT's that are for sale. Bit to land barge for my tastes.
So everytime i look, the big beemer keeps making a compelling case for itself, especially as there are dealers all over the place here. They sold lots here so there's a good selection, although i am partial to the Burnt Orange and pukka BMW pannier sets can be picked up for 250 quid including mounting gubbins.
Hmmm, might need to grow a beard....................
terry tibbs said:
z1000 sx 2014 onwards
integrated givi luggage, i get 160/180 per tank full, s
t seat so needs swapping for a sergeant seat but otherwise, as fast as you want
i did consider a k1300 but the extras for the panniers etc took it way out of my budget
why the 2014 onwards?? integrated givi luggage, i get 160/180 per tank full, s
t seat so needs swapping for a sergeant seat but otherwise, as fast as you want i did consider a k1300 but the extras for the panniers etc took it way out of my budget
ZesPak said:
I was in a similar boat 2,5 years ago.
I was split between the K1300S and the VFR1200F. (I wanted a shaft drive which ruled out the Busa and ZZR1400)
Test rode both (managed to have both at home at one point
) and for me (a regular rider coming from a 600) they both felt very composed and balistic in terms of speed.
Though, in terms of fit & finish, paint and switchgear, the honda felt... on another level. I know there are a lot of K1300S owners here, but as good as a bike it is, in terms of perceived quality it's not a patch on the honda from my perspective.
Looks are subjective but me and the OH were completely sold on the VFR in black.
On top of that, over here the Honda came with 3 years unlimited miles warranty which the BMW didn't, which shows confidence in honda's own competence.
On meets, there's always a couple of interested people and a couple of pictures taken despite it being completely stock.
I've done about 30k miles now, and it feels like new.
I couldn't wish for anything else. My only complaint would be that it's a bit too much. All these bikes are, double the NSL in sub 10 secs and you can always feel it's there, it's very tempting and I'm very glad to still have my license after two years of riding on it (I ruined it now didn't I
).
Like I said, I can't imagine anyone getting a K1300S and being disappointed, but you owe it to yourself to look into the VFR1200F as well.
Thanks for that. I knew there was someone here with a decent amount of time on the VFR, couldn't remeber who!!I was split between the K1300S and the VFR1200F. (I wanted a shaft drive which ruled out the Busa and ZZR1400)
Test rode both (managed to have both at home at one point
) and for me (a regular rider coming from a 600) they both felt very composed and balistic in terms of speed.Though, in terms of fit & finish, paint and switchgear, the honda felt... on another level. I know there are a lot of K1300S owners here, but as good as a bike it is, in terms of perceived quality it's not a patch on the honda from my perspective.
Looks are subjective but me and the OH were completely sold on the VFR in black.
On top of that, over here the Honda came with 3 years unlimited miles warranty which the BMW didn't, which shows confidence in honda's own competence.
On meets, there's always a couple of interested people and a couple of pictures taken despite it being completely stock.
I've done about 30k miles now, and it feels like new.
I couldn't wish for anything else. My only complaint would be that it's a bit too much. All these bikes are, double the NSL in sub 10 secs and you can always feel it's there, it's very tempting and I'm very glad to still have my license after two years of riding on it (I ruined it now didn't I
).Like I said, I can't imagine anyone getting a K1300S and being disappointed, but you owe it to yourself to look into the VFR1200F as well.
Lithe Honda has many like, but what is your REAL world mileage between fill ups? And do you have the post 2012 bike with the larger tank and other tweeks?
terry tibbs said:
bass gt3 said:
terry tibbs said:
z1000 sx 2014 onwards
integrated givi luggage, i get 160/180 per tank full, st seat so needs swapping for a sergeant seat but otherwise, as fast as you want
i did consider a k1300 but the extras for the panniers etc took it way out of my budget
why the 2014 onwards?? integrated givi luggage, i get 160/180 per tank full, s
t seat so needs swapping for a sergeant seat but otherwise, as fast as you want i did consider a k1300 but the extras for the panniers etc took it way out of my budget
<2014 bikes did not have this + some minor upgrades
ZesPak said:
Ah yeah, I was thinking I forgot something!
I've got the 2012 MY.
The "bigger tank" is a ridiculous statement Honda makes, IIRC think the difference is like 0.5 L. I mainly got the newer model because I much preferred the LED rear lights and I did want traction control (AWR).
The engine is a gem and a refreshing change from the IL4, the V4 lets off a distinctive roar that I'd recognise out of 100 bikes.
Though, MPG is supposedly less than than on the K1300S (didn't spend enough time on one to know my real world mpg). Real world I get just under 7L/100km, which would equate to 40mpg, if I feather it I can get about 55mpg out of it but I rarely do.
The two things I put "against" the Honda when I was comparing it to the BMW were MPG (from sites like fuelly the BMW averages about 3mpg more so hardly a decision changer) and the fact that the BMW has more toys (like traction control) to modify, the VFR has a big on/off switch for the TC and that's about it .
Cheers for that. So you're getting around 260kms per tank in real world riding??I've got the 2012 MY.
The "bigger tank" is a ridiculous statement Honda makes, IIRC think the difference is like 0.5 L
. I mainly got the newer model because I much preferred the LED rear lights and I did want traction control (AWR).The engine is a gem and a refreshing change from the IL4, the V4 lets off a distinctive roar that I'd recognise out of 100 bikes.
Though, MPG is supposedly less than than on the K1300S (didn't spend enough time on one to know my real world mpg). Real world I get just under 7L/100km, which would equate to 40mpg, if I feather it I can get about 55mpg out of it but I rarely do.
The two things I put "against" the Honda when I was comparing it to the BMW were MPG (from sites like fuelly the BMW averages about 3mpg more so hardly a decision changer
) and the fact that the BMW has more toys (like traction control) to modify, the VFR has a big on/off switch for the TC and that's about it .spareparts said:
Here's my take. I picked up a K13S HP (a K13S with all the toys + lots of carbon) in March of this year. Since then, I've done 6.5k miles. I bought it to do a big Eurotrip with 3DP, ChipChap and a few others across the Pyrenees, France, the Alps, Dolomites, etc. I later did a trip to the B500 in Germany, the Ring, and general hooning around the Eifel mountains. I also used it with MrsSpareparts as pillion down to France.
The key word about the K13 is compromise. You need to set your expectations about what it can do, what it might do, what it should do, and simply what it can't do.
If you try and ride it like an agile superbike, you will be disappointed. I did this for much of the Eurotrip earlier this year (last year I did the trip on the same Pyrenean roads on my 1098R), and I came away frustrated that it simply wasn't hustling as I knew I could ride the same roads on the R. In my frustration, I forgot that I still finished everyday completely ache free, and still managed to cover 350 daily non-motorway miles fully loaded up without really thinking, whilst sipping SUL at an average of 50mpg despite using full bore acceleration out of every 2nd gear turn.
On my second trip to Germany, it suddenly all clicked together. On fast flowing A roads, where you can sight the bends ahead, mentally prep the turn, tilt, don't lift, power through... the Hossack front end and immense stability make the K13S SUPREME. The bike flows beautifully between bends as you -guide- it like a cruise missile along any given road. It is very obvious that BMW engineered the K13 on the roads through Germany... it is genuinely perfect there. From Nurburg to Baden-Baden in 2hrs flat including a fill up, outside lane of the Autobahn, and traffic always moves out of the way as you cruise through at 150mph, totally unruffled and unstressed. On a very wet Ring, it was the best 2 wheeled bike you could ask for... ABS, TC, ESA... it all added up to a Ring-Eater. I was surprised that amongst S1000RRs, Panigales, and other superbikes, it was the K13S that the local Germans kept looking at and admiring. Chatting to a few of them, they all said that it was the king of roadsportbikes in their eye. That took me by surprise.
At high Autobahn speeds, 175miles to a tank. At slightly reduced 100mph cruise, and you still hit 200miles out of 17.5L. That is immense given the 175hp engine that is perfectly gauged for fast road use. The brakes are superb. Stability over badly surfaced roads is excellent. ESA is not a gimmick - as Black-K1 says, it works really well. On a drag against 3DP's ZZR14, the ZZR14 is faster - but only above 150mph where top end power really makes it power shown. Lower down, the K13S is quicker out of the turns - probably gearing+engine mapping.
Things to do: Fit a 25 or 31mm dogbone riser. Drill the fuel filler neck to allow faster fillups at the petrol station (the last 2L takes FOREVER to fill up if you don't). Fit a Sargent seat if you ride with a pillion - it makes it more comfortable for both, and stops the pillion pushing into you. Fit the optional centrestand... not for cleaning the non-existent chain, but because it makes loading up the panniers much easier and keeps the bike footprint down... leant over with panniers on, the bike takes up quite a bit of space.
What I don't like. The throttle action could be quicker - I'm used to the QAT on my 1098R and don't like not being able to rotate to the throttle stop without having to reposition the hand. In fact, the throttle needs to be electronified so you can add cruise control. A useful feature when you can easily cruise at 150mph for 175miles straight. The seat is very comfortable, but only if you grip with your knees... I have Stompgrips on mine that help. Otherwise, the seat slopes too far forward and slams your gonads. I don't like the integrated sport panniers much... they don't really hold enough, even though they look pretty and integrate with the lines of the bike absolutely perfectly. The kickstand has too small a footprint. Be careful if the tarmac is soft or ground not quite solid. The Ricardo-engineered engine gets buzzy around 7k rpm, and if you hold this rev range for over 30mins, your hands can get affected.
All round, it took me quite a few miles to get used to the K13. Now I am, it is simply tremendous as a very fast road bike that can easily take a passenger. But I am considering the LC GS12 as a replacement... why? Because for touring with a pillion, I think the K13 still places both of you in a relatively sporty position that isn't really the point of leisurely 2-up touring, and it doesn't provide enough luggage capacity for 2 for anything more than a 'biker weekend'. It is a spectacularly well compromised bike that allows you to ride at 85% of what you would on a superbike, cover huge mileage at warp speed, and allow you to arrive ache free. It has the necessary toys for comfort, effortless brakes, and the suspension and chassis allows for stability no matter the road conditions. Imho, I think it could well be the ultimate Solo-tourer.
Ade,The key word about the K13 is compromise. You need to set your expectations about what it can do, what it might do, what it should do, and simply what it can't do.
If you try and ride it like an agile superbike, you will be disappointed. I did this for much of the Eurotrip earlier this year (last year I did the trip on the same Pyrenean roads on my 1098R), and I came away frustrated that it simply wasn't hustling as I knew I could ride the same roads on the R. In my frustration, I forgot that I still finished everyday completely ache free, and still managed to cover 350 daily non-motorway miles fully loaded up without really thinking, whilst sipping SUL at an average of 50mpg despite using full bore acceleration out of every 2nd gear turn.
On my second trip to Germany, it suddenly all clicked together. On fast flowing A roads, where you can sight the bends ahead, mentally prep the turn, tilt, don't lift, power through... the Hossack front end and immense stability make the K13S SUPREME. The bike flows beautifully between bends as you -guide- it like a cruise missile along any given road. It is very obvious that BMW engineered the K13 on the roads through Germany... it is genuinely perfect there. From Nurburg to Baden-Baden in 2hrs flat including a fill up, outside lane of the Autobahn, and traffic always moves out of the way as you cruise through at 150mph, totally unruffled and unstressed. On a very wet Ring, it was the best 2 wheeled bike you could ask for... ABS, TC, ESA... it all added up to a Ring-Eater. I was surprised that amongst S1000RRs, Panigales, and other superbikes, it was the K13S that the local Germans kept looking at and admiring. Chatting to a few of them, they all said that it was the king of roadsportbikes in their eye. That took me by surprise.
At high Autobahn speeds, 175miles to a tank. At slightly reduced 100mph cruise, and you still hit 200miles out of 17.5L. That is immense given the 175hp engine that is perfectly gauged for fast road use. The brakes are superb. Stability over badly surfaced roads is excellent. ESA is not a gimmick - as Black-K1 says, it works really well. On a drag against 3DP's ZZR14, the ZZR14 is faster - but only above 150mph where top end power really makes it power shown. Lower down, the K13S is quicker out of the turns - probably gearing+engine mapping.
Things to do: Fit a 25 or 31mm dogbone riser. Drill the fuel filler neck to allow faster fillups at the petrol station (the last 2L takes FOREVER to fill up if you don't). Fit a Sargent seat if you ride with a pillion - it makes it more comfortable for both, and stops the pillion pushing into you. Fit the optional centrestand... not for cleaning the non-existent chain, but because it makes loading up the panniers much easier and keeps the bike footprint down... leant over with panniers on, the bike takes up quite a bit of space.
What I don't like. The throttle action could be quicker - I'm used to the QAT on my 1098R and don't like not being able to rotate to the throttle stop without having to reposition the hand. In fact, the throttle needs to be electronified so you can add cruise control. A useful feature when you can easily cruise at 150mph for 175miles straight. The seat is very comfortable, but only if you grip with your knees... I have Stompgrips on mine that help. Otherwise, the seat slopes too far forward and slams your gonads. I don't like the integrated sport panniers much... they don't really hold enough, even though they look pretty and integrate with the lines of the bike absolutely perfectly. The kickstand has too small a footprint. Be careful if the tarmac is soft or ground not quite solid. The Ricardo-engineered engine gets buzzy around 7k rpm, and if you hold this rev range for over 30mins, your hands can get affected.
All round, it took me quite a few miles to get used to the K13. Now I am, it is simply tremendous as a very fast road bike that can easily take a passenger. But I am considering the LC GS12 as a replacement... why? Because for touring with a pillion, I think the K13 still places both of you in a relatively sporty position that isn't really the point of leisurely 2-up touring, and it doesn't provide enough luggage capacity for 2 for anything more than a 'biker weekend'. It is a spectacularly well compromised bike that allows you to ride at 85% of what you would on a superbike, cover huge mileage at warp speed, and allow you to arrive ache free. It has the necessary toys for comfort, effortless brakes, and the suspension and chassis allows for stability no matter the road conditions. Imho, I think it could well be the ultimate Solo-tourer.
Thats fantastic, thanks so much for taking the time.
But whats really interesting is your realisation that the GS might be the better tourer in most instances!! I have noticed the K series panniiers look small compared to the Trax itemsi'm used to on the KTM and maybe the sports biased pillion position isn't so good either...
Bugger me,i might be going around in circles here!! maybe i should hang with the KTM for a bit on decent tyres & roads and see how i feel. It's not lacking in the performance dept as cruising at 90/100 is easily achieved and maybe it's easier to fix some of the niggles than hoof the bike.
She's just been serviced and is in rude health, so maybe change for changes saake isn't the wisest choice...
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