A meeting with the Japanese
Discussion
Te latest in my series of test rides and perhaps the most important yet, revelations abound today. This morning I rode a 2015 Honda Fireblade in Repsol colours. First impressions looking at the bike as I got ready to ride it; it is both attractive and sort of ugly too. I actually think the 600RR has a better looking front end these days, but the blade isn't a bad looking bike, but it does have quite a short visual appearance thanks to it's blunt nose. The tail unit looks a bit naff, with a silly little pillion seat I wouldn't inflict on my worst enemy. I'd have rather had a cowl, I suppose they are available at a price. The Repsol colours look good, I think Honda have struggled to come up with interesting colour schemes for the blade in recent years, so while a lot of the other options are a just a bit drab, the Repsol colours liven the bike up and give it some pop against the scenery. The 2015 BSB special edition and the Urban Tiger 2015 looks good too, I must admit. The bike on the whole isn't that exciting to look at, I'd say it's the least visually appealing of the current 1000cc crowd, perhaps battling for a bottom spot with the GSX-R1000. If I sound like I'm being down on it, I'm not, it's just that there are some very pretty bikes in this class!
Firing it up, the idle sounds flat and dull. The bars are a reasonable height, and I've got plenty of leg room. The seat goes a long way back so there is plenty of room to get a decent seating position and the reach to the bars isn't massive. I'm 6 foot, 34" inside leg, 14.5 stone - I'm lucky to be able to fit most bikes without discomfort, being neither too short or too tall for anything I've sat on so far.
The salesman very kindly said I could go as far as I wanted as long as I brought it back with the same amount of petrol I left with - excellent! Riding off from the dealership, I am impressed by the incredible light clutch, the smooth fueling and road-friendly gear set. At a guess from the rev counter, I think 1st would redline at about 85mph, so it didn't need as much clutch slipping to move it off as the RSV4, coupled with the smooth, predictable throttle response meant it was very easy to get comfortable on the bike. A quick stop for petrol and it was off to the good roads.
Arriving at the first NSL sign out of town, I gave the bike the obligatory handful of throttle through the gears. My first thought was "This engine is 181bhp? Really?" - I never thought I'd be thinking that! I am no John McGuinness, but this engine is deceptive in the extreme. It's smooth, incredibly so and quiet too. The power builds with vigour from 6000rpm up with a swell at 10,000rpm that hurls the bike towards the redline, but the effect is curious; there is almost no exhaust or induction noise at all, in fact the noise of the engine reminded me a bit of a washing machine on a spin cycle. It's fast, we know that, but even when giving it a good twist of the throttle and holding it through the gears, it never shows any real aggressive character, it just quietly, smoothly goes. I've heard people describe this thing as having an engine like a turbine or a nuclear power plant, that is spot on. I don't know why it needs to be so quiet, I suppose Honda feel some social responsibility about exhaust noise, but could they not have given it some induction bark? That's a bit of a treat for the rider, but it's missing here - why?. At times I could hear the sounds of an engine trying to escape and I think a decent exhaust system would liven things up immensely here. Whether or not an Akrapovic end can would do it, or whether you'd need a fully system to get that strangling collector box off I don't know. The other bikes I've ridden so far sound like they've got full systems on from the showroom, the Honda is far too sensible imo.
The gearing is worth a mention again, as the short(er) first makes this bike so easy to use, coupled with 5th and 6th gears that didn't feel too long for motorway cruising. Coming back down the A1 on the way home, 6th at cruising pace had the engine feeling perky on the throttle, whereas the RSV4 and F4 both felt flat and chuggy due to their gearing and throttle response at lower revs. It really highlights the difference in the design brief between the bikes in this class.
The suspension was Showa Big Piston stuff, felt great for the road - bumps and rippled surfaces didn't upset the bike at all. I love the way these new bikes have the little adjustment dials on the top of the forks with little etched labels, would be amazing for a track / road bike, or for a dedicated track bike. I doubt I'd feel compelled to fiddle at least until I'd done a decent amount of miles to really learn the bike, but it's a nice touch to have.
The handling was very nice, I didn't tax the limits of grip but the Honda's lack of electronic aids was not missed. The front wheel felt nicely planted and hard acceleration over undulations didn't make the front wheel go light like the RSV4 RF or the M4. The bike felt very stable even at a decent amount of lean and gave no complaint at me requesting a decent amount of power on the way out of corners. The brakes were Nissin with ABS, I didn't trigger the ABS, but if I was ordering the bike I'd happily pay extra to have it. Needless to say they offered good stopping power and coupled with the front suspension the bike felt nicely settled even under hard braking - or at least as hard as you'd go on a fast road ride short of an emergency stop. Obviously, this doesn't give an indication of what they'd be like on track. An odd quirk I found on the more open sections as the lack of an arse rest - when getting up through the gears I like to tuck in when it gets blowy, normally scooting my arse back in the seat to the stop. This bike doesn't really have one; while you're not exactly going to fall off the back of the bike even on track, I missed that locked-in feeling that I get with bikes with my a more substantial arse stopper. The tucked position was nice, the screen doing a good job of keeping my head in the bubble and the tank supporting my chest.
The display screen is nice enough, easier to read than the MV unit and with plenty of useful info on it, but I'd still rather have a needle tacho and a digital speedo. That's just me. I think, or hope that with the full colour displays on the new R1 and the Panigales, that the days of these drab little LCD displays are numbered.
The practicality of the bike is undeniable, I could ride it all day and not feel discomfort I think, and the nice tucked position would make it a better place to sit on the Autobahn compared to say, the RSV4 RF, which blasted wind at my face no matter where I sat. For a bike to go to work, go fast on the road, go on track and go to Europe, this would be the perfect tool I think.
And yet, despite the incredibly impressive engineering work, I never felt that excited by the bike. The lack of noise and the amazingly smooth engine may play a large part in that, but I never got the "devil on the shoulder" feeling, the bike never responded like it wanted to go faster or be pushed harder, it was just quiet and business-like no matter what was asked of it. How typically Japanese! It's massively confidence inspiring as it's so predictable, and I rode some bits of road more quickly than I have done previously. Whereas the RSV4 RF and the F4 had the characters of wild beasts desperate to break their leads and run wild, the Honda never gave me that impression. An incredible bike in many ways, but as I only need a bike to put a smile on my face and let me have fun, I wouldn't have a Fireblade.
I realise this opens the arguments of "bikes don't have character" etc, which in particular is leveled at Japanese bikes. For a start, I don't believe that to be true, much like I don't buy into the whole "Ducati is the Ferrari of the bike world", nor do I believe that MV's are somehow "special" because they're not Japanese. I believe it is the case that the responses of a bike can be tuned so that the feedback will be interpreted by the rider in a certain way; in this instance I think Honda have tried to reduce the NVH of the bike so much they've killed the flair of it. Maybe it just needs to look a bit sexier, make a bit more noise and perhaps give a little more tingle through the bars and it would be right up there.
Firing it up, the idle sounds flat and dull. The bars are a reasonable height, and I've got plenty of leg room. The seat goes a long way back so there is plenty of room to get a decent seating position and the reach to the bars isn't massive. I'm 6 foot, 34" inside leg, 14.5 stone - I'm lucky to be able to fit most bikes without discomfort, being neither too short or too tall for anything I've sat on so far.
The salesman very kindly said I could go as far as I wanted as long as I brought it back with the same amount of petrol I left with - excellent! Riding off from the dealership, I am impressed by the incredible light clutch, the smooth fueling and road-friendly gear set. At a guess from the rev counter, I think 1st would redline at about 85mph, so it didn't need as much clutch slipping to move it off as the RSV4, coupled with the smooth, predictable throttle response meant it was very easy to get comfortable on the bike. A quick stop for petrol and it was off to the good roads.
Arriving at the first NSL sign out of town, I gave the bike the obligatory handful of throttle through the gears. My first thought was "This engine is 181bhp? Really?" - I never thought I'd be thinking that! I am no John McGuinness, but this engine is deceptive in the extreme. It's smooth, incredibly so and quiet too. The power builds with vigour from 6000rpm up with a swell at 10,000rpm that hurls the bike towards the redline, but the effect is curious; there is almost no exhaust or induction noise at all, in fact the noise of the engine reminded me a bit of a washing machine on a spin cycle. It's fast, we know that, but even when giving it a good twist of the throttle and holding it through the gears, it never shows any real aggressive character, it just quietly, smoothly goes. I've heard people describe this thing as having an engine like a turbine or a nuclear power plant, that is spot on. I don't know why it needs to be so quiet, I suppose Honda feel some social responsibility about exhaust noise, but could they not have given it some induction bark? That's a bit of a treat for the rider, but it's missing here - why?. At times I could hear the sounds of an engine trying to escape and I think a decent exhaust system would liven things up immensely here. Whether or not an Akrapovic end can would do it, or whether you'd need a fully system to get that strangling collector box off I don't know. The other bikes I've ridden so far sound like they've got full systems on from the showroom, the Honda is far too sensible imo.
The gearing is worth a mention again, as the short(er) first makes this bike so easy to use, coupled with 5th and 6th gears that didn't feel too long for motorway cruising. Coming back down the A1 on the way home, 6th at cruising pace had the engine feeling perky on the throttle, whereas the RSV4 and F4 both felt flat and chuggy due to their gearing and throttle response at lower revs. It really highlights the difference in the design brief between the bikes in this class.
The suspension was Showa Big Piston stuff, felt great for the road - bumps and rippled surfaces didn't upset the bike at all. I love the way these new bikes have the little adjustment dials on the top of the forks with little etched labels, would be amazing for a track / road bike, or for a dedicated track bike. I doubt I'd feel compelled to fiddle at least until I'd done a decent amount of miles to really learn the bike, but it's a nice touch to have.
The handling was very nice, I didn't tax the limits of grip but the Honda's lack of electronic aids was not missed. The front wheel felt nicely planted and hard acceleration over undulations didn't make the front wheel go light like the RSV4 RF or the M4. The bike felt very stable even at a decent amount of lean and gave no complaint at me requesting a decent amount of power on the way out of corners. The brakes were Nissin with ABS, I didn't trigger the ABS, but if I was ordering the bike I'd happily pay extra to have it. Needless to say they offered good stopping power and coupled with the front suspension the bike felt nicely settled even under hard braking - or at least as hard as you'd go on a fast road ride short of an emergency stop. Obviously, this doesn't give an indication of what they'd be like on track. An odd quirk I found on the more open sections as the lack of an arse rest - when getting up through the gears I like to tuck in when it gets blowy, normally scooting my arse back in the seat to the stop. This bike doesn't really have one; while you're not exactly going to fall off the back of the bike even on track, I missed that locked-in feeling that I get with bikes with my a more substantial arse stopper. The tucked position was nice, the screen doing a good job of keeping my head in the bubble and the tank supporting my chest.
The display screen is nice enough, easier to read than the MV unit and with plenty of useful info on it, but I'd still rather have a needle tacho and a digital speedo. That's just me. I think, or hope that with the full colour displays on the new R1 and the Panigales, that the days of these drab little LCD displays are numbered.
The practicality of the bike is undeniable, I could ride it all day and not feel discomfort I think, and the nice tucked position would make it a better place to sit on the Autobahn compared to say, the RSV4 RF, which blasted wind at my face no matter where I sat. For a bike to go to work, go fast on the road, go on track and go to Europe, this would be the perfect tool I think.
And yet, despite the incredibly impressive engineering work, I never felt that excited by the bike. The lack of noise and the amazingly smooth engine may play a large part in that, but I never got the "devil on the shoulder" feeling, the bike never responded like it wanted to go faster or be pushed harder, it was just quiet and business-like no matter what was asked of it. How typically Japanese! It's massively confidence inspiring as it's so predictable, and I rode some bits of road more quickly than I have done previously. Whereas the RSV4 RF and the F4 had the characters of wild beasts desperate to break their leads and run wild, the Honda never gave me that impression. An incredible bike in many ways, but as I only need a bike to put a smile on my face and let me have fun, I wouldn't have a Fireblade.
I realise this opens the arguments of "bikes don't have character" etc, which in particular is leveled at Japanese bikes. For a start, I don't believe that to be true, much like I don't buy into the whole "Ducati is the Ferrari of the bike world", nor do I believe that MV's are somehow "special" because they're not Japanese. I believe it is the case that the responses of a bike can be tuned so that the feedback will be interpreted by the rider in a certain way; in this instance I think Honda have tried to reduce the NVH of the bike so much they've killed the flair of it. Maybe it just needs to look a bit sexier, make a bit more noise and perhaps give a little more tingle through the bars and it would be right up there.
Jazoli said:
Nice write up, I think the blade looks bloody awful, especially in those Repsol colours, who wants to look like a Spanish petrol station advert? its gopping and I personally wouldn't ride that as I'd feel a t
t everytime I got off it, but that's just me 
I like the Repsol colours, but there is an option for the "Champion Pack", which puts a load of giant "93" stickers on the bike. If I saw one of those in my mirrors on a ride out I'd be worry he'd was going to try and stuff me up the inside and end up running wide into a hedge! I've got a Rossi replica helmet and a Lorenzo rep, but giant "46", "99" or "93" stickers on the bike are a step too far even for me.t everytime I got off it, but that's just me Hopefully riding the BMW next, there is a BMW Motorrad dealer in Sunderland (urgh) so hopefully they'll have an S1000RR in I can have a shot on. I've tried to the local Ducati place but tbh the price of the 1299 puts me off, they are mightily expensive for what they are, but it's moot as they've run out of their allocation of 1299s, so the manager's boss gets parked on the showroom floor. They are also a Kawasaki dealer but don't have a ZX-10R demo bike, which is a shame, as that was the one I really had my eye on, it's well priced, seems reliable, looks and sounds great in my opinion and seems to have that bit of aggression in it that the Fireblade lacks.
The more I ride of these things, the more I know they're way better than I am, so I am considering the options, I can PCP and effectively lease for life, or buy on outright purchase spread over a few years, but then there is the depreciation to think of. Then when I think about the likes of the K5 GSX-R1000, the first gen ZX-10R etc, they're all so much better than me I could buy one for a few grand and spend the saving over a new bike on tyres, petrol and learning to ride the thing better and do it justice.
What I've definitely learned today is that no amount of power can make up for a lack of character. EVeryone's idea of character is different, but a bike can be utterly unflappable, massively confidence-inspiring and yet still not get you hooked on it. I honestly thought it was a cliche when people said Fireblades can be a bit dull, but I can sort of see where they're coming from.
John D. said:
I generally like the Repsol Blades. Somehow that one doesn't look so great. Not sure why.
Same, I don't mind race replica bikes, I quite like seeing them and wouldn't mind too much riding one. The liveries seem to be a bit dull these days on the most part, bikes looked better in the 80s when tobacco companies ruled the advertising roost.I think the problem with the 2015 Repsol blade is the that there is too much white on it. The older ones had a better black / orange / white mix. The 2015 Repsol CBR600RR is a better looking bike - in fact I think the 600RR is a better looking bike overall, it has a nicer front end and from a functional point of view, a proper tail until with an arse rest. It does look like the exact same tail unit they've been using since 2004 though, and it's due a restyle imo. But I digress, the 600RR has a better balance of colours on the Repsol livery.
mga32 said:
Didn't try anything else, most of the competition are pushing 15k now, which is too much for a bike for me. I had a yoshi exhaust on my last one which was good, but not available on th 2015s . The demo had a akra on it which sounded good, but was quite expensive, I may try the scorpion GP, but don't want it too loud.
I was told there was no running in required by the dealer, but have been taking it easy. The position is a bit different from the 2012, only because different muscles are aching now!
You may want to consult your owners manual, I think it's under 6000rpm for 300 miles, then 9000rpm for the next 300 then the first service and it's good to go. Have a look, it will be in the book.I was told there was no running in required by the dealer, but have been taking it easy. The position is a bit different from the 2012, only because different muscles are aching now!
Spareparts, good shout on the Suzuki, I think it's a very attractive package now.
Momentofmadness said:
Do you actually want a 1000cc Mastodon2?
I've got both, but the 600 is the one I love for the thrash feeling rather than the effortless power (to me the 1000 is like an automatic car cos it doesn't matter what gear it's in
)
Keep the SRAD and go trackday crazy
Yep, next bike will definitely be a 1000cc bike, no question about that, I love the torque and the muscular midrange that 600s don't have, not to mention the enormous amount of top end power. It definitely not a forgone conclusion that 1000cc is more fun than a 600cc on the road though, for example I have a friend with a CBR600RR and he loves it, but never really hits big speeds on it. If he was riding a 1000cc bike however, the he'd barely use half of the revs in any gear on a any ride and I think that would be a bit dull for him, knowing what he likes about his CBR, not to mention the additional cost of ownership of a 1000cc bike being a waste if you weren't at least giving it a decent bit of welly now and then.I've got both, but the 600 is the one I love for the thrash feeling rather than the effortless power (to me the 1000 is like an automatic car cos it doesn't matter what gear it's in
)Keep the SRAD and go trackday crazy
I've mentioned in other threads the better touring potential of a 1000cc bike over a 600, and I think that goes for all sorts of bikes, larger displacement generally meaning more torque and longer gearing, if I was crossing Europe I'd much rather do it on a litre bike, my SRAD is doing about 7500rpm at 80mph in 6th gear, on a bigger bike the revs will be much lower which would be more pleasant for the long, boring motorway bits.
Esceptico said:
Mastadon2 - have you also tried the 675 Daytona? Maybe you have your heart set on a litre bike but I rode on a couple of weeks back and was very impressed. Seemed to have a lot of lowdown power and also a nice top end kick as well. Was comfortable for me and handling was nice too. Doesn't have the electronic trickery on offer with the litre bikes but didn't feel
like it needed it. I think the 675 R looks good, has some nice bits and massively cheaper than (say) the BMW RR or MV. Worth a test ride before you make a decision.
I have not ridden one but I've always been impressed when I've sat on them, some people seem to find them a bit tall and thin but I've always liked the seating position. I haven't ridden a triple before so I'm interested in having a go for that reason at least, but I'll be having a ride on a friend's T595 to tick that off soon anyway. I've always red glowing reviews of Triumph bikes, perhaps a little too glowing - some of the bike mags feel a bit like EVO did with Porsche, where any group test becomes a battle for second place as there is already a winner before they've even ridden the bikes.like it needed it. I think the 675 R looks good, has some nice bits and massively cheaper than (say) the BMW RR or MV. Worth a test ride before you make a decision.
John D. said:
Or maybe it is just best of the 600 super sport bunch? Not hard to see why when it nicks 75cc.advantage!
I remember it cleaning up at the TT in the 600 class, again not surprising given it's advantage over the other bikes in it's class. Much like Ducati and their spiraling CCs. I'm sure the Daytona 675 is a great bike, I will endeavour to have a go at one point, all the good press in the world can't make up my mind for me, but their owners seem very happy with them and those opinions mean more to me than press.Momentofmadness said:
Well if you're set on a 1000 then get yourself back to Newcastle Honda and try this baby out http://www.newcastlemotorcycles.co.uk/pages/used/u...
Coopers always have something nice too http://www.bmwapprovedusedbikes.co.uk/bmwuk/aub/bi...
I had a look at that GSX-R Graham, it's very tidy indeed and quite sensibly priced too. I did hoy a leg over it as the bikes in there are parked so close you couldn't get a fag paper between them, but it looks like a top ride. Coopers always have something nice too http://www.bmwapprovedusedbikes.co.uk/bmwuk/aub/bi...
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