Suzuki 500 2 stroke Cafe Racer
Discussion
I have been looking around for a while as a suitable bike to make into a café racer over the winter... problem has been that everything I look at has a high price!
Talking to a mate the other day and he commented that he has a Suzuki 500 twin from the mid 70's still in his garage! seems he took it off the road in the early 80's and stripped it down to paint the frame as it was going tatty... he never put it back together. It has been there ever since, the frame is in the roof, and all the parts are in boxes under the bench. He said it was running fine before taking it off the road.
I guess a lot will depend on the condition of the bits and pieces, mainly the chrome. If its all good, it may be a restoration job back to standard, or if things are tatty maybe a café racer?
any thoughts welcome before I go and see it tomorrow night!
Talking to a mate the other day and he commented that he has a Suzuki 500 twin from the mid 70's still in his garage! seems he took it off the road in the early 80's and stripped it down to paint the frame as it was going tatty... he never put it back together. It has been there ever since, the frame is in the roof, and all the parts are in boxes under the bench. He said it was running fine before taking it off the road.
I guess a lot will depend on the condition of the bits and pieces, mainly the chrome. If its all good, it may be a restoration job back to standard, or if things are tatty maybe a café racer?
any thoughts welcome before I go and see it tomorrow night!
kev b said:
You know what they say? - Never buy anything in boxes.
Parts for classic Japanese bikes are very expensive and often hard to find, so my advice is to do a deal with your mate whereby he has to refund you for any missing parts.
I am currently helping a friend to restore an old Lambretta from a pile of boxes, the seller, another friend, swore everything was present.
He was badly mistaken, though Lambretta parts are remarkably cheap, the hassle and expense of identifying, sourcing and buying a large number of insignificant but vital parts has spoiled the experience and trebled the restoration time.
Years ago my brother acquired a Stag, in bits, the seller, an acquaintance, swore everything was there, it was not, adding a year to the build time. Can you see a pattern emerging?
I can, and I agree. I guess my plan is to check it out, see what its like and how much appears to be missing, if any, and make an offer based on that and condition. If all else fails, I don't intend to spend any more than I think I can recover in selling the parts if I need to.Parts for classic Japanese bikes are very expensive and often hard to find, so my advice is to do a deal with your mate whereby he has to refund you for any missing parts.
I am currently helping a friend to restore an old Lambretta from a pile of boxes, the seller, another friend, swore everything was present.
He was badly mistaken, though Lambretta parts are remarkably cheap, the hassle and expense of identifying, sourcing and buying a large number of insignificant but vital parts has spoiled the experience and trebled the restoration time.
Years ago my brother acquired a Stag, in bits, the seller, an acquaintance, swore everything was there, it was not, adding a year to the build time. Can you see a pattern emerging?
Guess it depends on how much he wants for it...
yes, very nice!
re the box of bits and parts missing... My mate bought a sanglas from a guy in a local village a few years ago. It was all in bits, but the guy assured him it was all there... And it was! to every last bolt! he did a dry build on it first and got it running before a full strip and rebuild.
all excited now!
re the box of bits and parts missing... My mate bought a sanglas from a guy in a local village a few years ago. It was all in bits, but the guy assured him it was all there... And it was! to every last bolt! he did a dry build on it first and got it running before a full strip and rebuild.
all excited now!
Well…. It’s bad. Last on the road in 1986, it’s a GT 500 with the front disc brake. The frame and many of the parts are in the roof of the one garage which is dry; the exhausts are pitted but seem sound. Fork legs look OK where the seals run, but pitted above that. Tank looks OK, as does the oil tank, clocks, and all the bits. Frame is not too bad. All the nuts and bolts are there in a box, and from what I can see it’s complete.
The engine and wheels have been in another shed which is damp, the engine has been covered and it looks as if it will clean up. I couldn’t get to it fully to see if it will turn over. The wheels are the worst bit as they have been against the wooden wall, and the rims are very poor.
As a restoration project its simply a no go… However, as a basis for a Café Racer project I think it may be OK. So I have bought it for £200. I will strip the engine down first and have a look, if that’s no good; I will break it for parts and should easily make more than my £200 back.
I will keep you all posted!
The engine and wheels have been in another shed which is damp, the engine has been covered and it looks as if it will clean up. I couldn’t get to it fully to see if it will turn over. The wheels are the worst bit as they have been against the wooden wall, and the rims are very poor.
As a restoration project its simply a no go… However, as a basis for a Café Racer project I think it may be OK. So I have bought it for £200. I will strip the engine down first and have a look, if that’s no good; I will break it for parts and should easily make more than my £200 back.
I will keep you all posted!
Well it’s here... It’s all there as far as I can see; all that's missing is the down pipes, headlight brackets and number plate bracket. The last owner assures me these are in his loft and he will sort them out. No big deal either way.
I have had chance to assess the condition and every piece of chrome is very poor… I guess I could restore it but to bring it up to mint, it would cost a fortune, and I would never see my money back. So a Café Racer it is.
First job was to look inside the engine, where I was pleasantly surprised! The fact he had put tissue paper in the inlet and exhaust ports probably saved it, it was all free, apart from the kick-start shaft which had sized in its bush. I have now pulled the engine apart and all is good, I will just rebuild with some new seals and rings.
I have started a page on my website which I will update periodically if anyone is interested.
https://jtccc.wordpress.com/
I have had chance to assess the condition and every piece of chrome is very poor… I guess I could restore it but to bring it up to mint, it would cost a fortune, and I would never see my money back. So a Café Racer it is.
First job was to look inside the engine, where I was pleasantly surprised! The fact he had put tissue paper in the inlet and exhaust ports probably saved it, it was all free, apart from the kick-start shaft which had sized in its bush. I have now pulled the engine apart and all is good, I will just rebuild with some new seals and rings.
I have started a page on my website which I will update periodically if anyone is interested.
https://jtccc.wordpress.com/
tricky1962 said:
No problem. I've used the forum and the Dutch guy - Marcel - a fair bit to keep my T500 on the road, as it's my daily workhorse.
Hi Tricky, I have placed an order with the Dutch guy... Is there any other supplier you use, or do you have any other links to share, those were very useful!podman said:
Look forward to seeing the end result mate, I had a look around your website, the Jota was a stunner..I bet you still miss that.
To be honest i dont miss the Jota. I bought it around 1980 and sold it 27 years later... Bought as a poor condition bike and built it up over the years... I sort of out grew it and stopped riding it. One of my better buys though as it sold for £10 Kgareth_r said:
That definitely has potential. The problem, or at least the expense, in making that into a cafe racer will be the tank. To look good (in my not-so-humble opinion 
) it needs a long tank and a short seat, and an alloy tank won't be cheap.
There was a decent looking drum brake T500 for sale recently for £1800. Can't remember where I saw it, but if memory serves it was in the north east of England, the ad said it had been restored using NOS parts, and it was missing the silencers and had pod filters on the carbs. Might be worth a bit of Google time if anybody wants one.
I know what you mean about the tank... I can get a new race fibre glass on for £250, and maybe recover around a third of that off the old tank. However, I have to say I like the look of this, and I can get the seat for around £70...) it needs a long tank and a short seat, and an alloy tank won't be cheap. There was a decent looking drum brake T500 for sale recently for £1800. Can't remember where I saw it, but if memory serves it was in the north east of England, the ad said it had been restored using NOS parts, and it was missing the silencers and had pod filters on the carbs. Might be worth a bit of Google time if anybody wants one.
gareth_r said:
'm not a big fan of fibreglass tanks, unless they've improved a lot in the last 40 years (slimline Norton 88, clip-ons, a gale, and the usual dodgy Featherbed centre stand = going home on the bus ). Plus you need to be sure that the GRP is ethanol-proof.
Yes, I know what you mean... These are coated inside I believe. Looking favourite for the look above at the moment though!). Plus you need to be sure that the GRP is ethanol-proof.A little more progress on the build... I have decided to replace the centre crank seals as they are 40 years old... I have split the crank after carefully marking it to make sure it goes back the same way, but I will check the run-out before its installed. It came apart reasonably easy with the two bolt method. I have managed to get some pipe that I can use to support the webs when I press it back together. The brass bars have been turned so they were a snug fit in the gap, so I can be sure the crank goes back as it was.
the gearbox is fine, I have stripped, cleaned and rebuilt it, it just needs seals. I have bead blasted the cases as well.
The bores are surprisingly good, and its still standard! I wanted to hone it for the new rings but I am always wary about using a three leg hone in a 2 stroke due to the ports... so I turned up a block of wood and used that with a bit of emery paper. it did the job a treat. I will bead blast the heads and barrels next, after masking off the bores.
the gearbox is fine, I have stripped, cleaned and rebuilt it, it just needs seals. I have bead blasted the cases as well.
The bores are surprisingly good, and its still standard! I wanted to hone it for the new rings but I am always wary about using a three leg hone in a 2 stroke due to the ports... so I turned up a block of wood and used that with a bit of emery paper. it did the job a treat. I will bead blast the heads and barrels next, after masking off the bores.
Yazza54 said:
That to me illustrates Gareth's point perfectly, that seat is far too long and the tank a tad too short - in my eyes anyway, it just looks wrong. Good find on the seat because it's that long it can be cut down to whatever size you want but IMO it doesn't work with that tank, unless you could take a few inches out the seat and still get away with it in relation to the rear wheel.
The plate and light bracket is a good idea because that would add a bit more length at the back so the hump doesn't look too far forward of the wheel. If that makes sense..
I agree, the seat is too long, they do sell a shorter one as well. I have plenty of time to see if any seat and tank units come up on Ebay... In the mean time I will be doing a "dry build" to make sure everything fits well and works, before painting anything. I like the idea of the seat hump to house the battery with the bigger hump seats. The plate and light bracket is a good idea because that would add a bit more length at the back so the hump doesn't look too far forward of the wheel. If that makes sense..
I really like the minimalist look and will be trying to achieve that. I was in the fabrication shop today and picked up some nice thin wall alloy tube to make the round oil tank... I am going to have a go at spinning some alloy ends, to dome them, which I have never done before!
Well the rebuild continues... I am waiting for some engine seals and gaskets to finish the engine, so while I wait I turned my attention to the front and rear hubs as I will be taking the wheels to have them rebuilt next week.
I spent a pleasurable couple of hours turning the hubs on the late, although I did have to visit my mate as my own lathe is not big enough! I will be polishing the outer surfaces later, but leaving the inside ribs a nice bead blasted matt finish.
I spent a pleasurable couple of hours turning the hubs on the late, although I did have to visit my mate as my own lathe is not big enough! I will be polishing the outer surfaces later, but leaving the inside ribs a nice bead blasted matt finish.
I took the crank to a mate today and used his 30 ton press to put the crank back together with the new seals on the inner bearing. It pressed together quite easily. To ensure it went back in exactly the same position I had carefully marked it with a centre punch mark. I did this by using a 9mm piece of silver steel which I turned down to a point and then hardened the tip. By passing this through the holes in two webs and tapping it to make a mark in the third web, it was very easy to accurately align the crank to where it was originally. I had a backup of a scribed line on the webs as well!
The brass spacers were used to ensure the crank went back to where it was. Tight fitting spacers were also used in between the crank webs to ensure the crank pins were not stressed during pressing.
Just to be sure, the crank was checked with a dial gauge. What is not evident from the picture is that the crank is supported by the end two bearings only in the crankcase. To facilitate this, two pieces of 1mm silver steel were used to support the bearing at each end, effectively replicating support on two V blocks. Thankfully it was well within tolerance!
The brass spacers were used to ensure the crank went back to where it was. Tight fitting spacers were also used in between the crank webs to ensure the crank pins were not stressed during pressing.
Just to be sure, the crank was checked with a dial gauge. What is not evident from the picture is that the crank is supported by the end two bearings only in the crankcase. To facilitate this, two pieces of 1mm silver steel were used to support the bearing at each end, effectively replicating support on two V blocks. Thankfully it was well within tolerance!
Bit of an update. I have been doing a few cleaning up jobs and made a start on making a tank, not its final shape, but its coming on. I have also made some clip ons and fitted them on to make sure they clear the tank. I have also added a couple of extra tubes to the frame as I think it looks better on a Café Racer. Just tacked into place at the moment as I am sure there will be other brackets that need to be welded on the frame as I continue with the dry run build. Wheels should be back with me tomorrow!
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