Was at the scene of a bike crash this evening
Discussion
Came across the scene of an accident I hoped would never see involving a car and motorbike. Pulled up and got off the bike to lend a hand. Rider was conscious and lucid, he was surprisingly calm. It looked like the car had pulled out of a side road and the biker hit it. Near side front wing of the car was demolished and the bike was in a right state. Looked like a Honda CB400. The car driver didn't seem too upset either. There was a smell of petrol, but none of it was too close to the rider fortunately.
A small group of us kept him comfortable until the paramedic arrived, who promptly cut the riders gear off. That was when he found a nasty laceration on his lower back, on the right. We stayed with him until he was taken away in an ambulance, which seemed to take forever to arrive. We learnt from the rider he has only been biking for a year. Luckily he had all the right clothing on which saved him from more serious injury. It was in a 30mph speed limit right next to a housing estate. Classic SMIDSY, but it certainly pays to anticipate drivers pulling out of side roads. Fortunately this time there were no serious injuries.
A small group of us kept him comfortable until the paramedic arrived, who promptly cut the riders gear off. That was when he found a nasty laceration on his lower back, on the right. We stayed with him until he was taken away in an ambulance, which seemed to take forever to arrive. We learnt from the rider he has only been biking for a year. Luckily he had all the right clothing on which saved him from more serious injury. It was in a 30mph speed limit right next to a housing estate. Classic SMIDSY, but it certainly pays to anticipate drivers pulling out of side roads. Fortunately this time there were no serious injuries.
Well I imagine many would have done the same. As I am a fellow biker thought I could add something to the help he was receiving. As it turned out he had one of those micro metric buckles on his helmet neck strap. One of the people helping was trying to undo it as if it was a d-ring type, so I released the buckle for him as he said it was tight round his neck.
It's quite alarming walking up to the scene of a crash with a rider lying on their back a few feet away from their mangled bike. One of the women helping had to get up and go sit down as it was getting a bit too much for her.
It's quite alarming walking up to the scene of a crash with a rider lying on their back a few feet away from their mangled bike. One of the women helping had to get up and go sit down as it was getting a bit too much for her.
DuraAce said:
Gavia said:
You unclipped his helmet? You really should leave that well alone, tight or not it needs full medical supervision before you start messing with it.
PS - hope he was wearing gloves
To be fair, I would have done the same. PS - hope he was wearing gloves
What do you want me to do? Sit and watch him potentially choke to death whilst waiting for a paramedic to arrive?
If the person had no difficulty breathing then I'd leave the helmet alone. Struggling to breathe then I'd losen it. If he wasn't breathing at all then I'd remove it completely.
Just to add another point, and not having a go at anyone. Whilst the rider was conscious and seemed fine, you never know how long they will stay like that. Lying on his back in the road for the time that he was meant fluid, phlegm or whatever can start building up at the back of his throat. At some point he may start choking, do you want to then be fiddling around trying to undo his neck strap when he could possibly start thrashing about. There is also the real possibility that he might start vomiting when the shock kicks in. Again I don't think you want to be trying to undo the neck strap when he is emptying his stomach inside his helmet.
Its a fair point that has been brought up as some of the people present at the accident were initially very reluctant to undo the strap, so if this educates a few people then some good has come out of it. We supported his helmet while the strap was undone, so no unnecessary movement was caused. The helmet itself was a very snug fit and when the ambulance crew arrived it took a bit of effort for them to get it off.
To answer another query above, yes the rider was wearing all the gear including gloves, other than the gash in his back and a mark on his knee the protection he was wearing did its job. Poor bloke had his jacket and riding jeans cut off him, the paramedic even apologised to him for having to do so.
Its a fair point that has been brought up as some of the people present at the accident were initially very reluctant to undo the strap, so if this educates a few people then some good has come out of it. We supported his helmet while the strap was undone, so no unnecessary movement was caused. The helmet itself was a very snug fit and when the ambulance crew arrived it took a bit of effort for them to get it off.
To answer another query above, yes the rider was wearing all the gear including gloves, other than the gash in his back and a mark on his knee the protection he was wearing did its job. Poor bloke had his jacket and riding jeans cut off him, the paramedic even apologised to him for having to do so.
tom_e said:
I've done a lot of training in terms of first response to potential spinal injuries and personally if the rider was conscious and wanted to remove their own helmet then I can advise against it but I'm not going to wrestle them into submission if they decide to do it.
If they're unconscious but their breathing/airway appeared to be fine I'd leave everything as is, if they stopped breathing/started vomiting in their helmet then ideally I'd want another person there to enable stabilizing their neck while removing the helmet.
If that's not an option then try and be as gentle as possible but it's got to come off either way.
I see no problem with undoing either a micro ratchet or d ring strap though if the person feels it's constricting their airway though as long as it's done carefully, it minimises the risk of them starting to panic and grab at it potentially causing more injury.
This, the riders helmet was stabilised while the strap was being unfastened.If they're unconscious but their breathing/airway appeared to be fine I'd leave everything as is, if they stopped breathing/started vomiting in their helmet then ideally I'd want another person there to enable stabilizing their neck while removing the helmet.
If that's not an option then try and be as gentle as possible but it's got to come off either way.
I see no problem with undoing either a micro ratchet or d ring strap though if the person feels it's constricting their airway though as long as it's done carefully, it minimises the risk of them starting to panic and grab at it potentially causing more injury.
Looking at those pictures above that must have been a very low speed impact as both the car and bike seem relatively intact. The crash I was at, as someone else put it, looked like someone had thrown a load of rubbish all over the road. One thing that did cross my mind when I got my mobile out to phone the wife and let her know I would be a little late, was whether taking photo's of the scene was ok or not. I didn't in the end as quite a few people were watching and didnt feel comfortable doing so. What do other people think when it comes to photographing accident scenes, even when nobody has been killed?
EP3vMk3RS said:
Crossflow Kid said:
So what special magic can a paramedic work that a mere mortal cannot?
There's no secret to removing a helmet, it's just a question of (a little) training/education/practise and confidence that c-spine injury can be ruled out.
You're unlikely to be able to rule out a spinal injury by the side of the road based on that mechanism of injury, and if he had a distraction injury such as a broken bone then he would need some sort of radiological imaging in hospital. There's no secret to removing a helmet, it's just a question of (a little) training/education/practise and confidence that c-spine injury can be ruled out.
Not sure though why a car based paramedic doesn't carry this kit.
Crossflow Kid said:
EagleMoto4-2 said:
EP3vMk3RS said:
Crossflow Kid said:
So what special magic can a paramedic work that a mere mortal cannot?
There's no secret to removing a helmet, it's just a question of (a little) training/education/practise and confidence that c-spine injury can be ruled out.
You're unlikely to be able to rule out a spinal injury by the side of the road based on that mechanism of injury, and if he had a distraction injury such as a broken bone then he would need some sort of radiological imaging in hospital. There's no secret to removing a helmet, it's just a question of (a little) training/education/practise and confidence that c-spine injury can be ruled out.
Not sure though why a car based paramedic doesn't carry this kit.
Incidentally, did they use the collar and board to get your helmet off, or just to treat you once it was off?
I suspect it was the latter.
Edited by Crossflow Kid on Saturday 8th October 10:12
The helmet was removed, neck brace put in place and then finally scoop stretcher placed underneath the rider.
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